clipped B16G vs. unclipped 20G

[KRAZYKOREAN]

Originally posted by candela

 

[4g63eclipseman]

Originally posted by kpt4321
Ok, there is a whole lot of stuff wrong with this.

First of all, a GT35R will NOT spool by 2500. No freaking way.

You sure as hell do not want to "slap a T78 ot T88" on your car. Not unless you have plans of making 600+ whp right now, with a powerband that sure as hell is not very streetable.

The 50 trim is not the size of a 20g.

the dul bll bearing gt35r with a t3 turbine on the hot side? and a .63a/ housing? yes it dos hit full boost by 2500-3000 it was documentd by turbo magzine on there project galant vr4. and i said if your going to go buck wild go for a t78 turbo im not talking on a stock motor!:laugh: as for the 50trim PYHICALLY ITS DAMN NEAR ThE SAME SIZE AS A 20G I WAS LOOKING RIGHT AT IT. i wanst talking compressor wheels.

 

[painmaster]

Candela,

Which turbo is which in the picture? Or is the one on the right clipped???

 

[KRAZYKOREAN]

yeah the right one is clipped

 

[DSMTurboEclipse]

I want a 20G so bad!

 

[coltboostin]

The big 16g is an enharently inefficient turbo to begin with. Unless you are running 12pis or less, the 20g will be the better turbo. Check the compressor maps fpr them. At say 15psi, the big 16g will only be at peak efficience (which is quite crapy anyways at 71%) until around 6500rpm. THe 20g is at peak the wole time ( a very nice 77%), and durring that time where it si at peak efficiency, it will be moving more air than the big 16g as is, making more power.

Small compressor housings with bigger than stock compressor wheels tend to be ineficient.
http://www.stealth316.com/images/td05h-16glarge-cfm.gif -big 16g
http://www.stealth316.com/images/td05h-16glarge-cfm.gif -20g

See for your self.

 

[crankbender]

At peak efficiency the whole time????

I think ya are a bit confused on this one. Also how did you figure out the flow for the engine?

Not to mention higher flow does not always = more power. What is the exhaust doing and the VE....

 

[KRAZYKOREAN]

Originally posted by coltboostin
The big 16g is an enharently inefficient turbo to begin with. Unless you are running 12pis or less, the 20g will be the better turbo. Check the compressor maps fpr them. At say 15psi, the big 16g will only be at peak efficience (which is quite crapy anyways at 71%) until around 6500rpm. THe 20g is at peak the wole time ( a very nice 77%), and durring that time where it si at peak efficiency, it will be moving more air than the big 16g as is, making more power.

Small compressor housings with bigger than stock compressor wheels tend to be ineficient.
http://www.stealth316.com/images/td05h-16glarge-cfm.gif -big 16g
http://www.stealth316.com/images/td05h-16glarge-cfm.gif -20g

See for your self.

SO if the 16g is so inefficient turbo...why do people still buy these turbos by the handful..and why do these turbos still get people into 11's...regardles of what peak they are at...they work...they are affordable and they last...

 

[talon1979]

In Utah people have a hard time getting a 20g to outperform a 16g, but our air is all messed up around here. I were you I would just get the evo III 16g instead of a 20g if that is what it comes down to.

 

[coltboostin]

Im not saying they will not work, I have a 16g! (small) THey are now bad, I am just saying in the turbo world, 71% peak is not good, and in my opinion the 20g would be a better choice in I had the option of the 2

And no I ran no flow numbers for the engine. But even when the 20g is off peak, it is probably more efficient than the Big16g on peak at its crappy 71%.

IF you look at the times list, you will notice that the big16g and small 16g, are equally dispersed in the 13's,12's, and 11's. By this I mean their is no place where the small16g falls off the list and the big 16g picks up. Their is a reason for that......

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by coltboostin
The big 16g is an enharently inefficient turbo to begin with. Unless you are running 12pis or less, the 20g will be the better turbo. Check the compressor maps fpr them. At say 15psi, the big 16g will only be at peak efficience (which is quite crapy anyways at 71%) until around 6500rpm. THe 20g is at peak the wole time ( a very nice 77%), and durring that time where it si at peak efficiency, it will be moving more air than the big 16g as is, making more power.

Small compressor housings with bigger than stock compressor wheels tend to be ineficient.
http://www.stealth316.com/images/td05h-16glarge-cfm.gif -big 16g
http://www.stealth316.com/images/td05h-16glarge-cfm.gif -20g

See for your self.

You should also include this from the same site:

This bears repeating one more time. Just because a turbo is rated at 500 cfm @ 2.0 PR does not mean that the turbo flows that amount of air in our 3L V6 engine at 15 psi boost pressure. The engine mass air flow is determined by the displacement, the RPM, the volumetric efficiency, and the air density (or plenum air pressure and temperature). At a given RPM and at the same plenum air pressure and temperature, the same amount of air flows regardless of which turbo is used.

That extra 6% efficiency ( which would not be reached anytime before the 16G reaches its efficiency peak ) is not going to make a huge difference until after 20psi. Then you are in 50 trim territory, and the 20G is not on par with any 50 trim ( PTE or AGP ).

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by candela
Still are... people seem to do ok with them. Though I would never clip any of my turbos...

You can polish a turd and make it go pretty damned fast. When the option was not avaliable for a better setup, there was no reason not to use a 20g with a clipped TDO5H hot side.

However, now that a better alternative is avaliable, there is no reason not to use it.

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by 4g63eclipseman
the dul bll bearing gt35r with a t3 turbine on the hot side? and a .63a/ housing? yes it dos hit full boost by 2500-3000 it was documentd by turbo magzine on there project galant vr4.

1. I don't trust Turbo magazine for the life of me.

2. You can make any turbo spool at 2500 rpm if you put the wrong exhaust components on it. I don't care if they chose a shit setup that spooled fast. A PROPER GT35R that is set up correctly will not give you full boost until at least 1000 rpm more than that.

A GT35R that doesn't suck won't spool that fast.

and i said if your going to go buck wild go for a t78 turbo im not talking on a stock motor!:laugh: as for the 50trim PYHICALLY ITS DAMN NEAR ThE SAME SIZE AS A 20G I WAS LOOKING RIGHT AT IT. i wanst talking compressor wheels.

Why the hell does physical size matter? We're talking about flow and performance here, I don't care how big something looks.

 

[dsmrunaway1]

i don;t know if u would call this changing the subject but i wanna know the difference between a big16g vs a evo3 big16g is there a big difference i wanna hit low to mid 12s with this setup (i own a evo3 brandy new ) my whole setup is this evo3 ported n polished,gasket matched 2g mani,ported exhaust side and intake side of my head gasket matched, 2 1/2 greddy exhaust, lsd, its fwd 2, tt supra pump ,safc,egt,i wanna get it tuned in at 20 or 21 lbs, i have a fully rebuilt bottom end with all arp bolts, upper intercooler piping, ported and polished intake manifold, punisher 02 dump tube, and intake hard pipe ?? im assuming i can but j/w built head 2 soon...

 

[KRAZYKOREAN]

evoIII16g has a slighter stiffer spring, the turbine housing weighs about 2 pounds less, turbo outlet is about 2.5 inches big, instead of about 2 inches for the big 16g, the wheels in both the evo and big 16g are basically almost the same but the Evo compressor wheel is lighter due to the thinner fins on the wheel

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by dsmrunaway1
i don;t know if u would call this changing the subject but i wanna know the difference between a big16g vs a evo3 big16g is there a big difference i wanna hit low to mid 12s with this setup

Yes there is a difference, hence the different names. If you are upgrading, then pay the extra 10$ and get the Evo III 16G. It can make more power.

Back to our regularly scheduled program,

-Groomz

 

[KRAZYKOREAN]

Originally posted by Groomz
Yes there is a difference, hence the different names. If you are upgrading, then pay the extra 10$ and get the Evo III 16G. It can make more power.

Back to our regularly scheduled program,

-Groomz

wow good explanation of why its different...

 

[dsmrunaway1]

thanks guys yea back to ur program was that being a dick

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by KRAZYKOREAN
wow good explanation of why its different...

The information is readily available. There are many threads about that specific turbo. Most sites that carry the turbo also list the specs. And this thread is not about the Evo III.

-Groomz

 

[KRAZYKOREAN]

Originally posted by Groomz
The information is readily available. There are many threads about that specific turbo. Most sites that carry the turbo also list the specs. And this thread is not about the Evo III.

-Groomz

awesome...but still great explanation

 

[dsmrunaway1]

well its about a 16g vs a 20g and techinally a evo 3 is considered a 16 in some cases so this thread should fit this question pretty well

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by KRAZYKOREAN
awesome...but still great explanation

This thread went from kpt4321 and others discussing turbine clipping and A/R ratios to support the moron who posted in the wrong thread instead of searching. You don't even have to search. There are threads everywhere about that turbo.

Let me do all the work for you:

http://www.slowboyracing.com/Mitsubishi Turbos/EVO 16g/Wheel_comparison.html

Now back to what this thread is really about,

 

[KRAZYKOREAN]

Originally posted by Groomz
This thread went from kpt4321 and others discussing turbine clipping and A/R ratios to support the moron who posted in the wrong thread instead of searching. You don't even have to search. There are threads everywhere about that turbo.

Let me do all the work for you:

http://www.slowboyracing.com/Mitsubishi Turbos/EVO 16g/Wheel_comparison.html

Now back to what this thread is really about,

awesome

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by dsmrunaway1
well its about a 16g vs a 20g and techinally a evo 3 is considered a 16 in some cases so this thread should fit this question pretty well

Don't be mislead, this thread is about turbine efficiency and clipping.

 

[coltboostin]

Well, for my arguement. How about this, you take the 16g, I'll take the 20g, and lets see who runs faster.

Yes clipping was origianlly done for the "polishing the turd" theory. With all 50trim options, thier is no need to do so, but if I were to get a big16, or 20g, I woudl clip.