choosing the right turbo... help?!

[DSMinn0vati0ns]

hey.. i was wondering wuts the best turbo to go with for my application.. i was looking for 350-400hp and this is wut im thinking.. Fpgreen, 20g, or the EVO III Big 16g... wut do u think?!

 

[Saber_TF]

Well uh, what is the application? Are you gonna race your car on the drag strip? Road race at the tracks? Or your going for street terror? Hehe...

Saber!...!...!

 

[mdctalon]

From what i understand they are pretty much the same turbo. I would say the 20 since it will have slower spool time, allowing for better traction in lower gears, since you have a FWD car. I know they have both hit 400hp.

 

[Saber_TF]

They are not the same turbo's. You could line them up & physically see that. The EVO III 16G is rated at 380Hp, The 20G is rated at 450Hp, and the FP Green is about 500Hp. As far as spool up time, it'll depend on your setup. Generally, bigger turbo's take longer to spool, but got a bigger kick when it does. And fyi, don't clip the turbo unless it's for all out racing. I'm kicking myself in the butt for doing that to my 18g & now i gotta send it back to change the turbine wheel.

Saber!...!...!

 

[DSMinn0vati0ns]

yea i would like a good turbo for the street as it will be my every day driver as soon as i sell my winter car and the weather gets a lil nicer.. however i wanna take a couple runs down at the track and make a decent time.. do u think that the EVO turbo would be the way to go.. and if i went that way would i need a install kit or is it a direct bolt up?

Thanks again

 

[SBstar]

Ahh don't go to big to fast young grasshopper. At least not without the proper supporting mods. Get those injectors you've wanted first, and some sort of logging software. Get those supporting mods on there and use the ol 14B to its max. If you already know all this stuff, you should know that the FPgreen is a 50trim turbo, you can find 50trims for way less then the price of the Green. The 50 trim turbo is the largest on your list and will definately produce way more then your goal. The EvoIII 16G is another great turbo for that horsepower range. Would have better spool up time and people have had alot of fun with them. The only negative thing is eventually you want to go bigger. I don't know much about the 20G's so I'll leave that to a wiser individual. If you want my personal if you don't want to work on maxing out the 14b and you don't plan on a FMIC get the EvoIII 16G.

 

[MattnGsx]

Yup what the last guy said. Though if your looking for a turbo now, go with the evo 3. It will work well with your setup now.
Theres alot to consider, if your goal is 350-400 whp. You could get there pretty close with the evo 3 down the road with lots of tunning. Though a 20g or 50trim, your going to have better chances, but are going to need better mods to support the turbo.

 

[DSMinn0vati0ns]

yeah i was gonna buy the 20g and i said the fpgreen is only 300$ more.. why not just go all out.. i plan on getting my Apexi FMIC and my 660's soon so next is the turbo thats whats going on.. my goal is for 350-450 hp street/strip car.. decisions decisions

Yup what the last guy said. Though if your looking for a turbo now, go with the evo 3. It will work well with your setup now.
Theres alot to consider, if your goal is 350-400 whp. You could get there pretty close with the evo 3 down the road with lots of tunning. Though a 20g or 50trim, your going to have better chances, but are going to need better mods to support the turbo.

 

[SBstar]

Yeah but like I said before the FPGreen is a 50trim turbo and its overpriced for a 50 trim. Try PTE's 50 trim I think its at least 100 bucks cheaper. NOt to mention there are several other 50 trims out there

 

[Revolution]

I totally agree decisions can be troublesome if all angles are not viewed. Since you have a fwd car which is primarily street driven and will see some type of track duty ,then go with the evo316g turbo .The reason I am saying this is because you can use all that extra money you saved on a fuel package that will let you control anyturbo from now till whenever. My two recommendations would be buy an afpr as well as 680 injectors that way you wont max the injectors out but you would still have some room if you do ever improve.

Now for the kicker if one day you feel like you want a little more then you "could" turn that evo316g into a 20g turbo and still have saved some money.

This would be the route I would take If I were in your position.

Good luck.

 

[DSMinn0vati0ns]

Revolution thanks it made me think about the EVO a lil more.. however how would u turn the EVO turbo into a 20g later on down the road..?! isnt a bigger housing and all?

 

[Revolution]

Well it's something that was offered to me when I first baught an evo316g. To my understanding you could swap either the compressor wheels and keep the housings or just swap the housings and wheels all together. I am personally not a turbo builder so I couldnt tell you the specific details or how the procedure is done.

Im actually extruded honing my exhaust housing in a few days ,and could probably run a group buy for it depending on what my buddy says ,it would probably cost around 80 bucks usd to extrude and hone a turbine housing , giving you more top end and probably keeping the spool the same if not faster.

Later down the road If I was to seriously think about upgrading my evo316g then building it into a 20g would be what I would do. Come to think about it I think fp does it already ,and just call it their sleeper 16g.

Anyways with the money you would save by not buying a 50trim and sticking with the evo3 turbo you could buy a fuel package from one of the vendors off this site.

Nothing beats getting more bang for your buck,if you really think it through.

 

[RamenPride]

Get those supporting mods on there and use the ol 14B to its max.

If you want my personal if you don't want to work on maxing out the 14b and you don't plan on a FMIC get the EvoIII 16G.

14b? He has a 2G

 

[DSMinn0vati0ns]

Yea i tottally agree with u but i dont need a fuel package i already have most of the fuel mods. except for bigger injectors and FPR.. So that doesnt matter.. but idk.. i think i might just go with the 20g.. whats the difference between the turbo being clipped and it noncliped.. what does it do to it?!

Also i would like to do a externally wastegated setup on the o2 pipe.. would a 40mm tial do the trick?! and what o2 pipe will work with a apexi n1 downpipe

Anyways with the money you would save by not buying a 50trim and sticking with the evo3 turbo you could buy a fuel package from one of the vendors off this site.

 

[Revolution]

Yea i tottally agree with u but i dont need a fuel package i already have most of the fuel mods. except for bigger injectors and FPR.. So that doesnt matter.. but idk.. i think i might just go with the 20g.. whats the difference between the turbo being clipped and it noncliped.. what does it do to it?!

Also i would like to do a externally wastegated setup on the o2 pipe.. would a 40mm tial do the trick?! and what o2 pipe will work with a apexi n1 downpipe

Hmm good choice the 20g, it will def net you your goals and the lag would save you some needed tires. I know fp does sell everything you need ,but dont be surprised to find out how expensive it can get , my jaw dropped when I had fully purchased an fp3052 and the wastegate and the o2housing ,mind you their work is unmistakenable but boy does it cost.

I really dont think you need to go externally gated ,but then again it's your car, so do what you feel will keep your nerves under control.

I would def suggest getting an eprom ecu off of jeff o because it would make your life alot easier when tuning using the afc.

Good luck with your set up as it' seems youve made a wise choice.

 

[DSMinn0vati0ns]

whats the difference between the 20g-5h the 20g-6 and the issue with the 10 degree clipping on the 20g-5h what are the dis/advantages of clipping the turbo or having the bigger tdo6 compressor... with either one of the turbos is it worth getting the interal waste gate or better off with an external one performance wise?

 

[SBstar]

14b? He has a 2G

haha oh man I guess I didn't look at that. Sorry my bad. But yeah I still say go with the EvoIII. It is a great streetable turbo. And if you really want that 50 trim go with something cheaper. Unless you really want the Green

 

[Revolution]

whats the difference between the 20g-5h the 20g-6 and the issue with the 10 degree clipping on the 20g-5h what are the dis/advantages of clipping the turbo or having the bigger tdo6 compressor... with either one of the turbos is it worth getting the interal waste gate or better off with an external one performance wise?

Well the reason why most shops clip the turbine wheels is to reduce reciprocating mass thus letting you flow much more in the top end ,unfortunately this does have it's inherent downsides like spooling pretty late. I would say if you're going 20g go with tdo6 wheels and don't clip,and just because I'm comfortable with internale gating,so I'de keep it internal as well.
Theirs never a need to spend allot of money right now, if you feel that the gate isn't doing the job properly then you can look into an external, but right now keep it internal you just might be surprised.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Since when do turbos reciprocate?

They don't clip to lower the mass of the turbine. They clip to allow exhaust to bypass the turbine and lower exhaust manifold pressure.

 

[Revolution]

Since when do turbos reciprocate?

They don't clip to lower the mass of the turbine. They clip to allow exhaust to bypass the turbine and lower exhaust manifold pressure.

I'm not going to debate as you are right but lets not forget that clipping is also done to remove material thus also removing what could ultimately become a restriction. Maybe I chose the wrong wording?

 

[DSMinn0vati0ns]

So u guys are saying that clipping the turbo is a good thing but slows down spool up?

 

[Revolution]

So u guys are saying that clipping the turbo is a good thing but slows down spool up?

Yes clipping will inadvertadly slow the spool time ,now whether it be a good thing or not really all depends on your wants and needs.

 

[eclipseGSTud]

DSMinn0vati0ns, did you decide on which one you're going to buy yet?

 

[red4G63T]

Mitsubishi:
16g = 34lb/min
Big 16g = 36lb/min
20g = 44lb/min

Forced Performance:
Big28 = 36lb/min

AGP:
L1 = 41lb/min (400BHP) T04B comp housing
L1R = 42lb/min (no data available)
L2 = 49lb/min 50 trim (520BHP) choice T04B / T04E
L2R = 54lb/min (550BHP) choice T04B / T04E
L3 = 60lb/min 60-1 (610BHP) T04E comp housing
L3R = 62(65)lb/min (630BHP) T04E comp housing

Extreme Turbo:
ETA12 = 36lb/min S-trim (360WHP) ETA comp housing
ETA32 = 48lb/min 50 trim (440WHP) ETA comp housing
ETE32 = 48lb/min 50 trim (460WHP) T04E comp housing
ETE42 = 50lb/min 60 trim (500WHP) TO4E comp housing
ETE52 = 55lb/min 60-1 (550WHP) TO4E comp housing

GT30 (ball bearing) turbos:

48 trim = 44lbs/min
52 trim = 50lbs/min
56 trim = 55lbs/min
60 trim = 60lbs/min
gt35 trim = 65lbs/min

Garrett:
T-28 = 34lb/min (350BHP)
50 trim = 47lb/min (GREEN)
57 trim = 49lb/min 60-1 = 65lb/min (RED)

The following is from Turbonetics Catalog:

On TO4E Compressor housings:
50-trim = 47lbs/min
54-trim = 45lbs/min
57-trim = 49lbs/min
60-trim = 50lbs/min
T-100 = 180lbs/min

TO4B compressor housing:
60-1 = 65lbs/min
62-1 = 70lbs/min



That should give you a good idea.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Your 16G and 20G numbers are a bit low.

I've datalogged 44.1lb/min out of my Evo III 16G. But 43lb/min is more normal for this turbo.

I also datalogged 36lb/min out of my small 16G.