Chatters only in 1st and reverse?

[Nightlife Customs]

So I own a 98 RS eclipse with a 420a rebuilt with a g20 turbo and the (assuming) stock nv-t350 trans with a luk clutch with a 2200lb pressure plate

I acquired the car from a marine who beat the piss out of it and didnt take care of the car period..

I bought the car knowing the TOB was going out and drove it that way for 3 1/2 hours solid on interstate to get back to were I live

Now - ONLY in 1st and Reverse does the car chatter.. And it's a ridiculous chatter at that! Once you reach a certain rpm / mph - it goes away

You can thrash through 2nd to 5th ad beat it up but no issues..

So - I replaced the clutch and TOB - only to find out that there were heat spots galore on the flywheel..

About 20 miles onto the new clutch - clutch would not disengage - later found my hydraulic line was hit going to the master cylinder and was leaking - which was causing air to get into the line - whig wasn't allowing the disengagement

Burned up that clutch thank god for warranties huh

So installing a 2nd clutch and new tob - again 20-25 mile in no issues.. Started the car up the next day and same bs..

Now I have checked

Motor / Trans mounts
Brackets
Bolts for both
Checked to see if the trans was flush with the face of the motor
Just checked flywheel to see if any hot spots occurred.. Nothing..

I don't know if it is a transmission issue? Only because everything I have read and it all points at the clutch and TOB - but it's not the case?

Later today I will be providing a link or uploading images to this thread showing my before and afters.. This will be about 2hours from this post time stamp

Anyone have any ideas?

 

[SICK SOCIETY DSM90]

With replacing the clutch are you having the flywheel machined also or just slapping the new clutch pressure plate and Tob. Is the clutch pedal feeling good or is it losing pressure from either the slave cylinder or the clutch master cylinder causing it to just slam into the fly wheel ruining the material on pressure plate. Just weird if everything is aligned correctly the clutch bled out with no air in lines and a smooth flywheel there shouldn't be any issues.

 

[Nightlife Customs]

No I did not have the flywheel machined.. Don't think I need to?

Clutch pedal feels fine.. I adjusted it from the inside of the car - the rod that comes trough the firewall - turned it out a few turns just so that I had more pressure in the pedal when disengaging the clutch

 

[SICK SOCIETY DSM90]

Well this is what my teacher told me when I was doing a clutch job. He says you can clean it really well and it will hold up as long as there is no grooves in the flywheel but could cause premature failure of clutch. He recommends to have it machined for insurance that everything is good and smooth. I went with grinding the flywheel clean and reassembled it and its almost a year later and still no problem with the clutch. Im thinking that maybe the flywheel is destroying your clutch material since the material is softer then the flywheel is. If there is a lot of grooves or damage to surface of flywheel it will destroy things.

have you had a friend or someone push in clutch pedal and watch the slave cylinder to see if its moving the throw out bearing also and when checking there see if there is any excess play just some ideas of what to look at. When I diagnose the clutch I had I replaced the slave cylinder first that helped some but still didn't have gears to get me where I needed so I knew it needed new clutch and had a lot of play in TOB. also while I was there I checked all the linkage from shifter to transmit ion to make sure every was in good working order before I told my friend they needed to spend money on clutch. Put new clutch in and haven't had a problem since. Hopefully this helps some just the steps I followed when working on cars.

 

[Nightlife Customs]

Having the flywheel machined will not change the material of what the flywheel is made from vs the material involved with the clutch

Though I understand where your coming from

There is no play in the tob from the slave - as this was my first concern but its easy to rule out only because it doesn't chatter in all gears..

Like it seems like the TOB is stuck and it vibrates coming off the pressure plate because it gets stuck there or something as as soon as it frees up - then it's all good from there

 

[SICK SOCIETY DSM90]

It will not change the material but any imperfections in the flywheel will effect the pressure plate material causing for possible premature failure. I use the ondemand 5 at school and in the step by step it recommends the flywheel to be machined for this reason. But I have also seen clutchs last forever without machining the flywheel just cleaning it up. Same principal goes for brakes you do not put new brake pads on and not turn the rotors the brake pads and rotors will not last as long it will get grooves and you will have to replace before you should have to. Any way back to your problem I would drive it some and see if it stop binding up if not then I guess you would have to go back in and see if theres something causing it to bind up.

Sometimes things will work there selfs out. My 90 eagle talon clutch is kinda funny it grinds also if I try first and reverse intill I pull clutch up alittle then engages perfectly.

 

[Nightlife Customs]

Well with the metaphor of the brake scenario helps with a mental picture

What's the worst that could happen?

 

[SICK SOCIETY DSM90]

Just premature failure possible but other then that nothing. The clutch I did without machining flywheel a year later is doing very well still so I guess time will tell.

I did some reading and I found that it recommends you putting some high temp grease on the recess of the throw out bearing and around the pivot points of the assembly. Didn't know if this could help with the binding issue.

 

[Nightlife Customs]

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Of course I know that the TOB needs grease

Here is the old flywheel

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Close up of a hot spot

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Here is my old clutch

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Pretty sweet huh?

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But this is the new clutch that is now sitting in the car

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Now here is a question.. When I bought the clutch it didnt come with its own centering tool.. I happen to have found one in a fellow techs box that matched my clutch and centered it before installing it of course

But in the event of not using the OEM key - will that cause a chatter?

 

[SICK SOCIETY DSM90]

That's a good question and sorry if I insulted you on the grease thing some people are not mechanics and need these guidance. Hmm idk ive never used anything other then the one that comes with kit for that car. If the guide tool is off any I guess it could cause some problems if not aligned properly but my thinking on that is it would effect every gear and drive ablity not just 1st and reverse but guess anything is possible. The old clutch wasn't the worst thing ive seen the one I pulled off was completely down to the rivits in it and the fly wheel looks pretty good no big grooves and not down to the screws.

 

[Nightlife Customs]

The worst ive seen personally and I wish I had the picture of it to show everyone..

was a 94 accord with a h22a swap at this transmission shop I went to go visit and have a chat with the owner on their opinion on my situation with the car.. Because this has been an on going thing now for the last.. month?

But this honda.. had both the clutch disc and the flywheel stuck side by side in the hood of the car.. I couldnt help but laugh my ass off at that.. I asked how it was possible the guy looked at me and said you drive one of these retarded ricer cars was kinda hopen you could give me some insight on it.. we both laughed and it was just funny to see..

But no insult / hard feelings taken ^.^ I am not mechanic savy by means.. but I know what I am doing and half the time when it comes to turning a wrench I dont know what I am talking about.. AUTO BODY & PAINT on the other hand? Im your man ^.^

Wasnt going to dump my free money into a paint job and body work into a car that could drive and ran like crap.. so thought id take care of that first

I started a journal on it today and if you want to take a gander at it - its posted ^.^



http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dsm-build-journals/467207-98-rs-jdm-duster-2g-eclipse.html

 

[SICK SOCIETY DSM90]

Ya its cool I will take a look. I just received my certificate for automotives so I know a bunch but not everything since I haven't had all the experiences of working on different types of cars. I am going to do a build thread once my school money comes in and i can get the parts I want. I have been running the car at the drags so I want to become more of a contenter with the 90 eagle tsi its only an 1/8th a mile so gonna have Justin on here rebuild my turbo and push the boost up on it to get a bit quicker

 

[Nightlife Customs]

The rebuild of the turbo is an easy task for those who know how to do it.. I am pushing 14lb myself

But not to get off topic of the thread here - still looking for others opinions

I just called down to Clutch Doctor down in Oregon, USA (Clutch & Brake Doctors - Your Beaverton, Portland and Vancouver Auto Service and repair Experts) And talked to a "Jake" and he was telling me that if I took the pressure plate off to inspect the disc - if I didnt torque down the pressure plate to spec.. and torqued one side down stronger then the other - that - that would be the first thing to look at..

Sooo provided a link to the site that has a pretty good "self diagnose" that could help people solve their related issues

Just talked to a clutch and transmission shop thats down the street from me..

Service manager was telling me he had a 03 spyder in a couple of months ago who had the same issue that I am having and found he was using after market parts for his clutch assembly.. They had put in dealer parts / clutch assembly in and they havent seen or heard from the guy since..

Anyone have any takes on this??

 

[SICK SOCIETY DSM90]

For us using the 14b which isn't monster of turbo and not a having a huge hp in these motors I would personally stay with oem replacement parts till you get to the good stuff with big turbos and make huge power. But aftermarket parts depends on how there manufactures some company's are better then others on the quality of parts. I believe it comes down to the quality of the parts. better quality more likely its going to work properly for you.

 

[Nightlife Customs]

I'm using a g20 turbo

 

[SICK SOCIETY DSM90]

Sorry I miss understood your 14 lb I thought you were on the 14b turbo but ya 20 g can put out so I would go with a comp clutch a lot of people are using the act series clutches on here. Just depends on how you drive it and if your going to race it any. But you get what you pay for you go cheap you might get cheap parts. not saying all cheap parts are garbage just my personal opionion.

 

[Nightlife Customs]

No

I'm a total believer in you get what you pay for..

But I'm assuming running an upgraded clutch like that I would need to build a transmission to support the hp I know I can achieve in the car

Only problem is that it's a fwd not a awd

So therefore I am trying to sell it as is and start over

 

[boost97gst]

Judging by your mods list you need a strong clutch. Think SB disk with a 2600lb PP just to be on the safe side. My comp clutch w 2700lb pp holds power fine.
Also, you do realize that the fidanza flywheel cant be machined right? At least not to my knowledge. That suuuure looks like a fidanza with a removeable friction disk(which is meant to be replaced when changing clutch). Apologies if you already realized this, i didnt read every last word in this thread.

 

[SICK SOCIETY DSM90]

That's sad your gonna sell it because its a fwd car you can still put some good power to the ground without it being awd. Its just harder to do. My talon is fwd and does just fine at the track hooks up well and gets down track everytime even beat an awd talon. If I had the money im sure your gonna ask for it I would deffently be interested in that car its pretty sweet. sorry to get off topic there but ya you would need to upgrade with more power and from what Ive seen on here to make really good power got to get some time of way to tune the car once over 15 or so psi.

 

[Nightlife Customs]

Well I know that a 2200 pp will hold up to 400hp

With the car tuned down right now - it's not pushing that 400

But I agree

And I know about the removable plate and no I didn't try to resurface it either but was more so agreeing with that there could be a possibility where there was that one slight groove or it wasn't flat enough or it to catch properly

 

[boost97gst]

a 2200lb pp will hold 400hp with the right disk..... throw in a sachs and a 2200lb and 400whp might give you that funky smell and a sad face . Good luck with whatever you choose to do with the car. Msns is pretty much your best option and its done wonders for the 420a crowd. Im not sure of other tuning options.
Buuuuut, ya, an awd gsx/talon is alot better platform to work with. The vendor and knowledge support is priceless. I like my fwd, its nice and light. I never launch though, its not meant for that. Roll-on baby, roll-on's!!

 

[Nightlife Customs]

Lol

I'm not shying from opinions

Just knowing I'm gonna sell it but would like to have this last problem fixed

 

[SICK SOCIETY DSM90]

Ya you will get good money for the car. especially if its mechanically sound. Good luck in finding you a good awd talon in good shape hope all works out.