changing springs need help asap please

[jtmcinder]

Here's the other point to consider. When you're talking about the heavy end of the car, what matters more than the spring-rate is the high-speed compression damping of the shock. Well, one of the reasons that Konis and Bilsteins pwn any of the crap from Taiwan is that they are hugely digressive in compression. That means that the shock doesn't resist bumps in the road, while still being able to control the spring in corners. That's what you paid extra for, so use it. Go ahead and run springs that would be unbearable on Taiwanese crap because, with Konis, it will be fine.

 

[2gGst98]

ok that makes seince. I will talk to them about that. I didnt order them from GC thought they came from them but I ordered from another website. I dont no if that makes a diffrence.

 

[jtmcinder]

I think the biggest issue will be whether 550s or 600s exist in a semi-conventional (i.e., flat-bottom and open-top) spring. You'd be asking for a 180.64.95 spring. Doubt that they even exist. And running the semi-conventional is what's allowing you to keep the big, thick, OE upper isolator and that plays a big role in keeping the ride nice.

edit: I just searched the Eibach catalog. The helper you want is called a "HELPER250" and the ring for between the help and main spring is called a "SPACER250"; the helper is 3" tall, which I'm 99% sure is enough. Unfortunately, no sign of anything like a 180.64.95 for the fronts to be stiffer and keep the OE isolator.

 

[2gGst98]

I dont have the big stock upper insolater that one was all rppped up from the crappy job the previous owner did. I have the one that came with the GC kit. In the pic above I have it set up how I think it goes but that is the rear spring on the front shock.

 

[jtmcinder]

Hm. That's not good. The reason that they send a conventional-style spring is so you can keep the front upper isolator. The rears are flat at both ends, right? That means the rears are race-style (or coil-over-style) springs. But the fronts, if they are 180.64.75s, should be flat on one end (which should also be exactly 2.5" ID), which goes at the bottom, and larger and not flat at the other end, which goes at the top and uses the OE isolator. The thin black urethane isolator isn't really that good at isolating. Hm.

edit: I just looked at your picture better. That front spring is a barrel-type spring (larger in the middle, but 2.5" ID at both ends). Oh well. Guess you have to use their urethane isolator, since it won't go around the lump in the OE upper plate, anyway. Well, the good news is that you can swap them for any rate you want.

 

[2gGst98]

ok so I am going to have to get the oem insolator also that is good to know. I didnt think that the way I had it set up was right. I thought it was missing something but that makes seince. but yea the one that was on it is ripped almost all the way through. So when I get that also shuld I not use the one that came with the kit?

 

[jtmcinder]

Slow down. If that's a barrel-type spring, then it won't go around the lump in the front upper plate, so you can't run an OE isolator.

Measure the ID (inside diameter) of both ends of the 180.64.75. If both ends come back down to 2.5", then you're stuck with the GC isolator, since I'm pretty darned sure that the lump on the bottom of the front upper plate is wider than 2.5".

If that's all true, then you should consider getting GC upper plates or RRE pillowball upper plates. Both of these will gain you suspension travel over the OE plates and suspension travel is hugely important in the front of a 2G, especially when the spring rates are below 650.

Note that a true "DG"-slash-Cinder 2G set-up has pillowballs in the front and rear. The rears aren't that important, but the fronts are a great addition. They reduce side-forces on the shock which can cause stiction and premature failure. They allow the shock to do it's job without interference.

(If we keep going, I'll have you on a real set-up and your bank account empty. tee hee)

 

[2gGst98]

yea I dont have much money. I am just getting started in HVAC so not too much comming in yet. And I spent just about all on this set up so far. if I cant send back the springs for stiffer ones would it be ok for the mean time? I dont want to start spending alot all at once. I redid just about my whole front end all control arms and all. its on the lift waiting for the shocks to go on. But I have learned patience in the time I have had the car.

 

[romeen]

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did this work

and with the bushings is their a website that shows how to put it together


I had to buy a strut mount kit also. I will take a pick of all the bushings I have. But do you see the brass washer in the pic. where does that go nothing I have with the kit has something that stops it from moving around.

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this is what I have. is their another thing you have to order with the gc springs? cause I just dont think I have everything. But I dont no. is their someone that has this set up that can send a pick or it put together?

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edit: I just looked at your picture better. That front spring is a barrel-type spring (larger in the middle, but 2.5" ID at both ends). Oh well. Guess you have to use their urethane isolator, since it won't go around the lump in the OE upper plate, anyway. Well, the good news is that you can swap them for any rate you want.

Without flat ends how does the spring sit squarely on the standard, flat GC lower perch? Is there an adapter? I don't understand how that spring can be used in coilover type set up.

Here's a good "how to" which shows how the individual components should fit together.

Ground Control Coilover kit install, 2G


This one has some really good pics showing the helper spring and divider on a GC kit. He is using a different upper hat/perch and an RRE mount plate so don't worry about that looking different from yours.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/handling-tech/385416-my-koni-gc-rre-dg-style-install.html

 

[ricktb]

Front spring is thicker. The fronts you have to separate the shock from the mounting fork, and swing the shock and spring assembly out as one piece. Dismantle the assembly and swap in the new pieces. Reinstallation is the reverse process. Remember to torque bolts to spec. The rear is so easy you can do both sides in an hour or two, the fronts took me 3-4 hours each. Remember the shock is under high pressure and if you pry on the tube to hard it will spray oil everywhere.

 

[jtmcinder]

I finally found some good pics of 180.64.75 springs. GC is sending those to everyone, from BMWs to Hondas. They're barrel-type (i.e., wider in the middle), but standard, flat-ended, coilover-type springs. No problem sitting on the GC perch. Can't use OE isolator at the top; must use thin urethane isolator that came with the kit.

Personally, I'd return or toss the front springs and just get some 7" 2.5" ID 600s (or 550s, if you don't trust me about the ride). Forget these fat-middle springs. Reminds me of Britney Spears from a few years ago, to be honest. Ick.

 

[jtmcinder]

the fronts took me 3-4 hours each.

Then you should probably stay out of this. When you know what you're doing, 20 minutes, max.

 

[jtmcinder]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/handling-tech/385416-my-koni-gc-rre-dg-style-install.html

Now I'm getting annoyed again. What are the differences between Dennis' set-up and one I actually ran (instead of tried to sell)? I used GC sleeves and RRE upper plates, instead of Koni sleeves and one-off plates. What's in that thread? GC sleeves and RRE plates. Bah.

 

[2gGst98]

jtmcinder - I didnt have time to call GC today to see if they whill do that, I was way too buisy at work. But tomorrow I deffinitly will see if they will take those and send me 600's. and I do believe you man

romeen - (Ground Control Coilover kit install, 2G) that shows me how to set it up thank you that is what I was looking for I appreciate it.

ricktb - Thank you for telling me that but I do know this. Not trying to critisize you but did you read what people have been telling me? also I do have a spring compressor if you cant tell in the pic it is a full shop whith just about everything you need. And I had the frears out in 15 min the car has been on the lift just waiting for the koni GC's.

4 hours everything else was done. 36 hrs finding what I need and counting.
working on a DSM timeless!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just a question but if GC people say they wont swap them out, would the ones I got be good for now they arnt going to be too soft are they? I dont plan on doing any road racing till next spring. So That is when I will be getting my scca license. so I have time to save up and get new ones by then for that then sell the ones I got or keep for pairs.

 

[romeen]

Now I'm getting annoyed again. What are the differences between Dennis' set-up and one I actually ran (instead of tried to sell)? I used GC sleeves and RRE upper plates, instead of Koni sleeves and one-off plates. What's in that thread? GC sleeves and RRE plates. Bah.

Sorry Jtoby ! Next time I will just post the images without captions or thread title.

 

[jtmcinder]

If they won't swap the spring, then run what you got. If, after driving the car for a while, the body roll and lack of front grip bugs you, then up the front rates and see for yourself, back-to-back, in your own experience, how higher front rates actually increase front grip on a 2G. Long term, this will pay off as you will know it, rather than just have heard it.

 

[2gGst98]

just wanted to let everyone know that I got everything together, and its great. need an alignment but I love it even more. I am glad my boss let me off on sunday (today) to let me get this done, or else it would have been thanksgiving weekend for my next day off. Now I just want to get off early one day to do an alignment. Special thanks to jtmcinder, who helped me a hell of alot many times. And to romeen who posted the pics for step by step set up on the shocks and springs.
But thanks to every one for their imput.