Car Stinks!

[PhoenixRPR]

'92 Eclipse GSX.

OK, I have 2 problems I'd like some troubleshooting on.

1) My car stinks, literally. After running it normally, it smells bad, and after running it harder, it smells even worse. I'm not burning oil, so i think the burnt smell is fuel. I am getting 19 mpg on avg. so where should I start looking for problems leading to a poor smell while and after driving? I have minimal NO, HC and CO emissions because I replaced my EGR, Catyltic Converter, and O2 sensor. I have fairly new plus and plug wires. Ideas?

2) At random times (to me at least), 3 instrument lights come on in the dash. They are coolant, battery, and emergency brake. Those 3 lights come on dimly sometimes, and even brighter at other times. But it's definitely always those 3, and always in unison. Thing is, there's nothing wrong at all with my coolant, battery, or emergency brake because I just flushed my coolant and replaced my battery and the e-brake works fine. I can't figure out what is causing the lights to come on and then turn off randomly. Just an electrical/fuse problem?

 

[PhoenixRPR]

"I have fairly new plus and plug wires." <--should've said "I have fairly new spark plugs and plug wires."

 

[Thomas91169]

if i remember those lights come on when the alternator is fried.

and the smell, well, umm, fabreeze it.

 

[realhp=turbo]

U just put a new converter on. Its gonna stink for a little while. Does it smell like rotten milk or bad hardboiled eggs? That would be the converter and that is normal. I would have to agree with Thomas mine did the light thing when my alternator went. Pretty random to. Youll want to pull that out soon cause it sounds like its closer to death than you think.
mike

 

[GTM]

'92 Eclipse GSX.

1) My car stinks, literally. After running it normally, it smells bad, and after running it harder, it smells even worse.
...
2) At random times (to me at least), 3 instrument lights come on in the dash. They are coolant, battery, and emergency brake. Those 3 lights come on dimly sometimes,
...
I can't figure out what is causing the lights to come on and then turn off randomly. Just an electrical/fuse problem?

Yes, the smell is that of rotten eggs (hydrogen sulphide), and comes from the cat-conv, as emission controls have improved over the years it's not a common place as it use to be. It is produced when the engine is running too rich and will contribute to the early failure of the cat-conv so something should be done.

........

Your intermittant light glow is usually caused by a poor connection but not always a ground circuit. These circuits maintain a balance until needed, or some bulb burns out. Check for codes then clean thoroughly dirty battery connections. Make sure all engine grounds are clean and making good contact, if you can locate harness connections for the involved circuits under the dash unplug, spray with contact cleaner or WD-40, plug them together a few times. If you can find the bulb circuit test unit unplug it and spay as well.

Any radio work done in the last month or so should also be checked for good connections.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[PhoenixRPR]

Whoa. Thanks a million for your responses. And as always, it's great the be responded to by a Wiseman, so I really appreciate that GTM.

Ok, a few things to say. I do not have a "rotten eggs" smell. It smells like gasoline. My catalytic converter is a perfectly working cat that has greatly reduced my emissions in order to pass smog recently. The cat is about 3 months old. So what else may be causing the gasoline smell? Remember, I don't smell it at idle, but once I drive the car around, the harder its driven, the worse the gasoline smell becomes.

Regarding the interior dash lights coming on, Thomas and relahp both suggested it was a dying alternator. However, GTM leads me to believe it is a poor connection somewhere in the harness. I have a new battery and new battery terminals, so they're very clean and secure. I have no codes either.

"if you can locate harness connections for the involved circuits under the dash unplug, spray with contact cleaner or WD-40, plug them together a few times. If you can find the bulb circuit test unit unplug it and spay as well." <---I am unsure where to find these circuit connections and buld circuit test unit. Are they shown in the Haynes manual perhaps?

"Any radio work done in the last month or so should also be checked for good connections." <----YES. I have had problems with my amplifier cutting out the right side of my car's side entirely. I have to mess with the amp wiring to get it to come back. I can't figure out the source of the problem, but I think the amp may be defective. It's a Rockford Fosgate 551X 4-channel.

 

[GTM]

Whoa. Thanks a million for your responses. And as always, it's great the be responded to by a Wiseman, so I really appreciate that GTM.

Ok, a few things to say. I do not have a "rotten eggs" smell. It smells like gasoline.

Holy cow, if you knew it smelled like gas why not have included that so we didn't waste time. ????????? I don't even know what color it is because we know red cars get more tickets. huh

You have a leak, vent hose, vacuum line, air cleaner not seated, carbon canister, PVC hose, fuel line, filter, gas cap, tank vent, but because it's red I just don't know. You can run your hand over gas line fittings, sometimes you can't see they are wet/damp but your fingers will come back wet.

The battery cables was where you start so move on. If you have a manual, concentrate on understanding the oil pressure idiot light circuit otherwise you will get so bogged down you will be tearing your hair out by lunch. The fact you have 3 circuits involved suggest a common feed either +/- or the bulb test unit is dying.

It could be the Alt but ... or the field winding harness plug on the back, check that too. After that then maybe brushes in the Alt. If you find a relationship between those wires and the oil light in the schematic. Perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea to have the Alt. checked under load but you didn't complain about charging probs.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[moliver]

when the dummy lights come on, your altenator is dead

happened to me before.

I am on my 4th altenator

 

[halligoo]

As GTM said, check the Vent tube and also the filler hose that runs between the fuel filler door and the tank. Make sure the tank is full and look for Pin hole leaks. I had the same 'fuel smell' problem and couldn't find it. Took the car for an alignment and the Tech smelled gas and traced it to the filler hose. Crappy bands and pinholes.

 

[PhoenixRPR]

Well aside from the crass remarks, I really appreciate the feedback guys.

"Holy cow, if you knew it smelled like gas why not have included that so we didn't waste time. ????????? " <---Well GTM, I actually said in my 1st post "...so i think the burnt smell is fuel." Maybe you interpreted that differently than intended.

Where is the "bulb test unit"?

I'm not having any issues with the oil pressure light, I'm not sure if that was brought up as an example or as a misunderstanding.

My alternator is a remanufactured unit I got about 6 months ago. I'm not having any charging problems.

I sprayed down with WD40 every ground connection I could locate in the engine bay and under the dash. As of right now, the dash lights are gone. I assume they will come back on at some point over the next week.

The idea that the smell is coming from a vent or filler tube in the trunk area near the gas tank kind of baffles me, since the smell I am having only occurs when the car is driven. Wouldn't a leak in those areas result in a stench during idle as well?

 

[GTM]

Well aside from the crass remarks, I really appreciate the feedback guys.

"Holy cow, if you knew it smelled like gas why not have included that so we didn't waste time. ????????? " <---Well GTM, I actually said in my 1st post "...so i think the burnt smell is fuel." Maybe you interpreted that differently than intended.

Where is the "bulb test unit"?

I'm not having any issues with the oil pressure light, I'm not sure if that was brought up as an example or as a misunderstanding.

My alternator is a remanufactured unit I got about 6 months ago. I'm not having any charging problems.

I sprayed down with WD40 every ground connection I could locate in the engine bay and under the dash. As of right now, the dash lights are gone. I assume they will come back on at some point over the next week.

The idea that the smell is coming from a vent or filler tube in the trunk area near the gas tank kind of baffles me, since the smell I am having only occurs when the car is driven. Wouldn't a leak in those areas result in a stench during idle as well?

Not sure about crass if that was for me. It helps if we are using the right words and understanding each other. Smells like noises are subjective which complicates matters.

Burned fuel is exhaust, gasoline is gas fumes maybe mixed with oil from outside the engine. I don't mean that I'm right or wrong just as long as we understand.

I think the bulb test unit is behind the radio and maybe up to the left, should have a lot of wires (10-15??) maybe the size of a cigarette package. Might be able to see standing on head and looking straight up. You may have fixed it already with what you have done.

What you describe for when it happens is classic rear trunk/hatch, etc. weatherstrip being torn or unglued. Sitting still it just blows away, in motion it whips up and enters from the rear. Why does your rear license get dirty... for the same reason. You can adjust heat vent fan controls so you are getting only air from the outside it will put pressure on the inside and thus prevent the smell. You might be able to look at the underside of the gas tank ans find streak having come down the sides, look for areas that have been washed but not by water. From inside lift up the carpet where you would gain access to the fuel tank, make sure that plate is screwed down tight and no gasket leaks. Could be coming through a hole in the firewall. You could have someone else drive when it does the smell thing and you crawl around the car and try to not look crazy while sniffing everything. You migh also find some air leaks

Take the simplest of the lights you mentioned and trace it on the schematic, I don't have a diagram but what you describe fits that it must remain neutral potential until it needs to tell you there is a problem. There is no in between, once you see the circuit you will understand how it does this and it's fairly simple but I can't draw if from memory without spending a 1/2 hour thinking. But you _are_ having a problem which is in between so it usually is one side of the circuit is not doing it's job. I do discount the Alt. at least 90% not it. That's about the best I can do, maybe someone else has ideas.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

if it smells when you drive normal and hard, you probably have some type of exaust leak in the front of the car. My car stunk, i mean bad of gas (from running auto ecu and 450cc's w/ no fuel computer) and found a few exaust leaks in the front. That was my problem so just check around, you'll find it

 

[i jus 8 ur vtec]

i had these EXACT SAME PROBLEMS jus a few weeks ago..........the unison lights are definately the alternator not a bad connection.......so you need to changce that soon cuz then ull be running on pure battery and have to drive 10 miles with no lights......trust me ,i kno .......and for the smell its an exhaust leak...check the manifold to turbo bolts and also check the o2 housing..........my bolts literally lossended themselvs so i need to get new ones.............so check that and get back at me..............


Monty


p.s i wish i was a wiseman GTM is my role model

 

[GTM]

i had these EXACT SAME PROBLEMS jus a few weeks ago..........the unison lights are definately the alternator not a bad connection.......so you need to changce that soon cuz then ull be running on pure battery and have to drive 10 miles with no lights......trust me ,i kno .......and for the smell its an exhaust leak...check the manifold to turbo bolts and also check the o2 housing..........my bolts literally lossended themselvs so i need to get new ones.............so check that and get back at me..............


Monty


p.s i wish i was a wiseman GTM is my role model

Wiseman can be jerk too... an expression of a wish is were and not was. That aside what did I do to be your role model??

Convince me it's a bad Alt other than it happend to you. What would the Alt be doing to make it bad and cause the problem? If it stopped charging then tell us why, what part failed that would cause these lights to come on dim... not bright just dim.

Someone else reported they had 4 Alternators go out, something else must be wrong, there just can't be that many bad rebuilt units that all find their way to just one car owner.

I do have questions and I certainly can't look at an Alt and say it's bad unless I see bad burned wires and smoke pouring out. There are test which may or may not find a ghost problem that comes and goes.

Case in point last week, guy is complaining about _some_ of his dash lights get brighter and dimmer, along with that he hears the fuel pump grunting in unison with the lights then it would go away. He has proper voltage at the battery I'm thinking bad commutator on fuel pump but everyone else is shouting Alt.

He makes a good deal on a big Alt. and is starting to replace it, he pulls off the big B+ lead from the back of the Alt and discovers that the lock nut that holds the output stud is loose in the insulators causing it to arc at the connection on the inside of the Alt but nothing wrong with it other than a poor connection. That's the sort of thing you run into every 100 or so Alt problems but not a normal thing. So it's not a good thing to take up the cry the Alt is bad unless you absolutely know. You can suggest it but until you get your hands on this particular case then we can only make educated guesses and I'm not about to jump on board that ship until I know my ship is sinking.

As for the smell they just had a lot of work done to pass Ca smog so I'm not buying into cracks or leaks in the exhaust, besides that would cause backfire on deceleration especially if they are running rich as air is being sucked in through the leak. I doubt they did anything more than check the seal on the gas cap but not crawl under the car and look for leaks. Who knows maybe they didn't get the cap on right... and everytime the go around the corner some sloshes out. The owner is going to have to get involved to the extent they can. There are other tests for the exhaust such as putting a plug in the pipe and see if it leaks somewhere else. So lets not just jump to conclusions and order up $500 of someone elses money without knowing facts.


Cheers,
GTM

 

[PhoenixRPR]

Wow, that was some classic banter. Thank you GTM and everyone else who has provided feedback. I have spent 2 days working on my vehicle, fixing certain odds & ends that have needed attention for a while. At this point in time, the 3 dash lights are no longer showing, but I fear they may return, and if they do, I'll be sure to speak up in this thread. I have a autometer voltmeter in my car at all times, so I'm able to see that the alternator is charging properly at all times. I'm not having any headlight dimming problem, or other alt. related issues from what I can tell.

In regards to an exhaust leak from a manifold bolt, I also agree with GTM that it's unlikely because I am not exhibiting any other typical symptoms an exhaust leak would entail.

I have checked the fuel rail area and I do not see any leaks near the intake manifold area (injector seals/insulators). I never pulled it all apart, I just don't see any leaking from above.

I have to admit, I don't know the difference in smells between "burnt fuel" and "gasoline". However, I can tell you that from as far as I can tell now, if I keep the RPMs below 3,000 and drive normally, I CANNOT smell the problem anymore. If I drive the car harder than that, I certainly do smell it still. GTM, you said "What you describe for when it happens is classic rear trunk/hatch, etc. weatherstrip being torn or unglued" and that adjusting my heat vent to flow air in from the outside will prevent the smell, but that isn't the case. I smell it regardless of the vent position. Would you still think it is from the rear?

 

[GTM]

Wow, that was some classic banter.
...
I have to admit, I don't know the difference in smells between "burnt fuel" and "gasoline".
...
"What you describe for when it happens is classic rear trunk/hatch, etc. weatherstrip being torn or unglued" and that adjusting my heat vent to flow air in from the outside will prevent the smell, but that isn't the case. I smell it regardless of the vent position. Would you still think it is from the rear?

Banter, is that like prattle. Pull the gas cap off and waft the fumes to your nose??

As for the trunk seal. Tear/cut 1" wide strips from 8.5"x11" paper lengthwise. Trap paper between gasket and hatch and close. Pull on paper and see if it slips out without any resistance, do this 4 different places on each of the 4 sides ie 16 times. You can use this for checking for water leaks and at door gaskets also. If everything is good on the hatch then it's not coming from there.

It could be coming from the gas tank fill pipe or the overflow pipe. Have you neen in any fender benders where they may have not connected a hose? Any radio speaker work back there? Are there any vents in the rear side panels insid the car? Some of this design use a thin plastic like a freezer bag to act like a large falpper valve to keep air from coming in the car but allows it go out. The plastic gets old and breaks off and can let fumes back in the car. With a drop light under the hood and it's dark outside look for light shining through under the dash from the firewall. You will have to move the light around to different locations.

Gear shift boot broken letting fumes come in throgh there?

Brake booster leaking? Brings us back to hoses under the hood off or cracked. Do take a close look at the PVC hose... any oil leaks from the valve cover, spots on the ground? I've covered most everything I can think of in this post and previous. It's called getting up close and personal.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[PhoenixRPR]

No oil spots or valve cover leaks. No PVC leaks either. I'll try the firewall light idea and paper strip idea. Thanks!

 

[realhp=turbo]

Im sorry totaly aside from the subject but I have this thing for proper terminalogy. It is not PVC but rather PCV for Positive Crankcase Ventilation valve. Please, carry on.
mike

 

[GTM]

Im sorry totaly aside from the subject but I have this thing for proper terminalogy. It is not PVC but rather PCV for Positive Crankcase Ventilation valve. Please, carry on.
mike

As do I. Poly Vinyl Chloride wasn't on my mind yet my trained fingers broke ranks in protest. Yes it should have been PCV.

e tu

Cheers,
GTM

 

[PhoenixRPR]

Banter. prattle, derision, raillery, potato, potahto, yes yes it was PCV, not PVC. I was thinking conduit for some reason.

 

[GTM]

Banter. prattle, derision, raillery, potato, potahto, yes yes it was PCV, not PVC. I was thinking conduit for some reason.

Ok, ok, What news to report? We want action.

BTW when my son took his car for smog it too didn't pass. We put plugs, changed oil and went back. They retarded the timing something awful to the point the car had no guts and gas mileage was less than yours. I couldn't stand it so reset the timing where I knew it ran best and that was the end of it.

I doubt this will solve you smell problem but might improve performance.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[PhoenixRPR]

Ok new news. I drove the car around a lot the last few days. Last night, while idling at a fast food joint, my 3 dash lights suddenly came on. The conditions were that my stereo (amp+sub+speakers) were on at the time. I did notice that my voltmeter gauge showed a drop from 14.4ish volts down to about 12 volts. While idling, the volts hovered around 12 volts, then shot back up to 14 volts pretty much at random moments. If I reved up the engine a bit, the volts surely shot back up to 14.4ish, but the weird thing is that they would do that sometimes even when I wasn't giving the accelerator some pressure. But yes, I did see the lights turn on in teh dash coinciding with the sudden drop in voltage. As the volts shot back up to 14.4ish, the dash lights REMAINED on. Do you think my alternator is working, but just throwing fits due to old wiring/harnesses?

 

[lazylaser]

Are you sure the amp/sub are hooked up correctly? Did you notice the problem shortly after installing the audio stuff?

An improperly installed amp could cause a lot of the symptoms of a faulty alternator. Check your hooks ups and the ground/remote. How many watts is the amp? Maybe its putting too much draw on the battery and the alt is having a hard time keeping up? (not sure on that one.)

As far as the smell, I have no idea. Check all your lines (fuel filter too). Good luck.

 

[GTM]

Ok new news. I drove the car around a lot the last few days. Last night, while idling at a fast food joint, my 3 dash lights suddenly came on. The conditions were that my stereo (amp+sub+speakers) were on at the time. I did notice that my voltmeter gauge showed a drop from 14.4ish volts down to about 12 volts. While idling, the volts hovered around 12 volts, then shot back up to 14 volts pretty much at random moments. If I reved up the engine a bit, the volts surely shot back up to 14.4ish, but the weird thing is that they would do that sometimes even when I wasn't giving the accelerator some pressure. But yes, I did see the lights turn on in teh dash coinciding with the sudden drop in voltage. As the volts shot back up to 14.4ish, the dash lights REMAINED on. Do you think my alternator is working, but just throwing fits due to old wiring/harnesses?

Oh, not cool, not cool to keep from us that you have an amp, all bets are off. You might consider adding the biggest Alt you can stuff in there and a second battery WITH an isolater JUST for the sound system. I can't begin to think how this was wired and whether you have run that loom alongside your tail lights or anything else where you induce/impress sympathetic voltage on a sensitive circuit.

Maybe some of the radio sound geeks can help you out but this seems like it needs a hands on approach to see what body panels were cut that are contributing to your smell and what wires were added.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[huafist]

You mentioned an amp and subs - where did you get yor ALT from? If you didn't get a heavy duty one, you may be sucking more juice than the ALT is producing... I don't know what your stereo setup is, but it's a place to look.
As was mentioned earlier, the 3 dash lights are the "lights of doom". When they all 3 come on at the same time it indicates a problem in the charging system (ALT not working, fault ground, ANYTHING that would prevent the battery from charging) - which you pretty much proved is the case with the voltage drop.