Can I use a 95 talon tsi as a donor for my 98 spyder gs?

[Joebrauk]

I know that the 4g64 and the 4g63 are very similar engines, but my question is, can I use the talon as a donor for an A/T to M/T swap. I have seen the gst transmission used, but is there a difference between the 95-96 and 97-99 dsm's? Please let me know of anything that might cause a problem.

Thanks!

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

If memory serves me correct you will find several things that are different. Not the least your CAS. Check with a good reputable salvage yard to see if they will interchange. They can tell you in seconds which would take much longer elsewhere.

Good Luck

 

[KiNg MaRtY]

It will be very troublesome to make it work. The Spyder has differences with manu of its parts but it can be done.

 

[m_0ney_pit]

The answer is yes for the auto to manual swap

Also hold onto the rest, the spyder and AWD chassis are the same (different than TSI fwd and GST chassis) so you can swap the AWD system onto your spyder chassis and have a 4wd turbo 4g64 convertable which is the ultimate dsm in my oppinion..

Don't bother with the 4g63t motor just sell it and boost your 4g64. Chances are the 4g64 is in better shape for boost anyway...

 

[bostonhatcher]

The answer is, no you can't. Just swap an Evo head on your spyder, then boost it with the money you make from parting out your Tsi.

 

[delta448]

The answer is yes for the auto to manual swap

Also hold onto the rest, the spyder and AWD chassis are the same (different than TSI fwd and GST chassis) so you can swap the AWD system onto your spyder chassis and have a 4wd turbo 4g64 convertable which is the ultimate dsm in my oppinion..

Don't bother with the 4g63t motor just sell it and boost your 4g64. Chances are the 4g64 is in better shape for boost anyway...

You forgot a couple key concepts, the 63's DOHC head most significantly.
Drop the 64 out, build it up with forged internals. Then add the 63 head, front timing case, AWD trans and add the rest of the drivetrain to the sypder chassis. Then re-install the 64 like it was a 63 in a AWD.

-That would make the answer quoted below even more irrelevant.

The answer is, no you can't. Just swap an Evo head on your spyder, then boost it with the money you make from parting out your Tsi.

 

[bostonhatcher]

The 1g/2g head will NOT bolt up to a 4g64 motor. You CAN use an EVO head since it's bottom end and the 4g64 bottom end are basically the same. Plus the cam gears are on the same side.

 

[Cs4g63]

The 1g/2g head will NOT bolt up to a 4g64 motor. You CAN use an EVO head since it's bottom end and the 4g64 bottom end are basically the same. Plus the cam gears are on the same side.

I do believe you are confused and thinking of the wrong year. The 4g64 in the 2g spyder is not the 4g64 that comes in the newer 3g's. The 2g spyder 4g64 is oriented the same exact way as the 4g63 in both the 1g and 2g.

 

[delta448]

spyder 4G64 engine bay

AWD 4G63 engine bay

The Evo's after the Evo 3 have the T-belt on the opposite end of the head, w.r.t. intake and exhaust manifolds.

The only major issue with the 64 block is the oiling passages in the deck that have to be filled.

 

[bostonhatcher]

I do believe you are confused and thinking of the wrong year. The 4g64 in the 2g spyder is not the 4g64 that comes in the newer 3g's. The 2g spyder 4g64 is oriented the same exact way as the 4g63 in both the 1g and 2g.

I knew the 3rd gen's were oriented the same way as the Evo's. I've also had someone tell me that they were swapping an Evo motor into a 2g Spyder cause it had the 4g64 so I figured they were the exact same 4g64.

 

[Joebrauk]

I am sorry that I didn't mention this before, but I do believe the tsi is Fwd not Awd, and I have also seen the 4g63 head on a 4g64.

also, this guide http://www.4g64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34 is where I saw the use of a gst transmission in the spyder

 

[bostonhatcher]

So I take it the 4g64 is a SOHC and stroked 4g63?

 

[Joebrauk]

The reason why I am asking this question is because I have the opportunity to buy a 95 Talon Tsi for $1200, The head might be blown ( the guy dosen't really know much about cars so I can't get too much info out of him) It has some mods, 18in wheels, an aftermarket Bov, carbon fiber. not really any engine mods. so basically I just want to take the tranny out of it, and turbo my sohc, possibly do the swap but it's not looking good for the head on the tsi.
What do you guys think?

 

[bostonhatcher]

If you're going to spend more than $1200 on buying all the parts individually then do it. Also, don't forget you can sell the Tsi shell when you're done with it.

 

[delta448]

I knew the 3rd gen's were oriented the same way as the Evo's. I've also had someone tell me that they were swapping an Evo motor into a 2g Spyder cause it had the 4g64 so I figured they were the exact same 4g64.

So I take it the 4g64 is a SOHC and stroked 4g63?

The Evo uses a version of the 4G63, up to the Evo 9.

The swap they were probably referring to was most likely an Evo 1-3 engine, basically the same as the DSM's 4G63 with a 16g turbo. Evos 1-3 have the same block orientation as the DSMs, the same head orientation also. Evos 4 and up flipped the block and trans, block on pass side, trans on driver's side.

The 4G64/G4CS block is the same casting as the 4G63 block except with a 6mm taller deck, a longer stroke and a slightly larger bore to give a final displacement of 2350cc over the 1997cc of the 4G63.

 

[bostonhatcher]

The Evo uses a version of the 4G63, up to the Evo 9.

The swap they were probably referring to was most likely an Evo 1-3 engine, basically the same as the DSM's 4G63 with a 16g turbo. Evos 1-3 have the same block orientation as the DSMs, the same head orientation also. Evos 4 and up flipped the block and trans, block on pass side, trans on driver's side.

The 4G64/G4CS block is the same casting as the 4G63 block except with a 6mm taller deck, a longer stroke and a slightly larger bore to give a final displacement of 2350cc over the 1997cc of the 4G63.

It's all so clear now .

I felt like a jackass earlier saying that the head was backwards on a 2g spyder. You know what they say about assumptions.

 

[m_0ney_pit]

Yea I would think that it would be an ok deal...after all you get these useful 4g64 turbo parts:

1. A donar car with everything you need to go auto trans to manual
2. Turbo ECU and knock sensor to swap into the spyder
3. 450cc injectors and resistorpack
4. 4g63t oil pan
5. blowoff valve
6. intercooler (buy a front mount once things are running right )
7. 2g Throttlebody
8. exhaust manifold and heatsheilds
9. boost and fuel pressure soleniods
10. Downpipe/cat/exhuast combo

Come to think of it, its a great deal considering you have the motor to sell and the rest of the car to partout.

Basically only other MAJOR things you need are a 14b or 16g turbo (don't use the t25, compressor map is completely useless on the 4g64/SOHC) don't forget though...nuts bolts vacuum line, oil, coolant lines etc. etc. will cost another $400 or so.

 

[Black_Bullet]

http://www.extremeevolutions.com/4G64_buildup.htm

 

[Joebrauk]

I was also thinking about just repairing the tsi, How much would you estimate to fix the damage done by a broken timing belt?

 

[Cs4g63]

As long as you do all of the assembly and reassembly instead of taking it to a shop it can be rather inexpensive. As long as all that needs to be done is rebuilding the head and replacing timing components.

 

[m_0ney_pit]

You could also just buy a used 1g head that was rebuilt and put it on and forget about rebuilding the head you have...