built 2.0 vs built 2.3 (both 7 bolt)

[FilthyEagle]

I am currently building a 7 bolt 4g63t and I have always wanted a stroker, I have been reading on both built 2.0 and 2.3, I am looking to make 600-800awhp. One question which one will make it and still be daily driver.

 

[mantega4g63]

My vote is 2.0, there is a thread on the different types of motors you can go with and the pros and cons of each. You should check that out, isn't too hard to find but i'm on my phone. 2.3 will make loads of torque and is a nice option that i feel like honestly more people go with, but I feel safer with a 2.0 daily driving. I have about the same hp goals except more like 500-600 because i'm running 93 on a super 40, might run 110 one day at the track

 

[FilthyEagle]

Thanks for the info, I have been reading other posts, about the pros and cons, I have always wanted a stroker, however I am looking to have a realistically bad a** talon awd. Where I am at the competition is evos, wrxs, neon srt4s, hondas, and the new genre of muscle cars. I like loud and fast. Also where I live we have no emissions laws, so you can run a race car, as long as it has head lights, tail lights, and insurance plus plates. My main concern is which is gonna give me the range of horse power I want and still drive daily.

 

[edsgst]

For a daily driver, I prefer the stroker. I bought my 2g 20 years ago, new. The last 9 years, it has been a 2.3. Having driven both for a long time, I definitely prefer the 2.3 over the 2.0. City driving is nicer for sure...I don't feel the need to gear down as much in traffic or when going up hills. As far as power goes, you can achieve your goal with either configuration. And both will/can be loud and fast. Of course living in Cheyenne, you shouldn't have to deal with constant traffic congestion, so maybe you'd prefer the higher rev factor of the 2.0...? In a nut shell, when I changed to a stroker, it wasn't a ", what a huge difference!" type of feel, but it was nice to have the extra pull down low, which I grew to appreciate quickly.

 

[FilthyEagle]

I plan on using a Manley Race Series Forged 100mm crank, Manley forged rods, eagle forged Pistons 85.5 (.20 bore) 9.5:1 compression, ACL rod and main bearings, the head port and polished, Brian Crower Stage 2 272/272, have the oil valleys on the block polished for better oil follow, a t3/t4 turbo, convert to coil over plug, aluminum race radiator, fmi. This is a 2.3 build.

 

[oneslowwdsm]

Agreed that the 2.3 would be nicer city driving however you have to remember the more TQ you make, the more drivetrain shock, and the more wear and tear on drivetrain parts.

Since it is your daily, you have to think about sound proofing, motor mounts, suspension and tire setup, etc. This means quality parts that don't ruin drivability. If you are building a manual trans, I would also recommend an EVO 5th gear for easy freeway cruising if you do a lot of that, even though getting transmission parts nowadays is tough.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

If you like breaking parts and having a lower rev limit (8500 some do 9k but they are wild) then go with the 2.3, it will make more power with less, it will spool a turbo quicker, and it will break tramsmissions quicker. There are also other varations such as a 2.4, 4g64. 2.2, 2.1, destroker, long rod, or a combo of each yeilding different results. I have always been on a 2.0 with stock valve springs and a max rev of 8k (sinilar to a 2.3's max safe rev) it sucks . Reving higher is going to be a noce factor of the 2.0 with a built head.

With that said. For my next motor I'm considering a 2.0 long rod, or a 2.2 long rod de-stroker (using a 2.4 block) both will yeild a nice rev limit of 11k+ with proper supporting components. But since i currently hve a spare 6bolt I'll probably do the long rod 2.0.

If your daily driving though, 600-800whp is going to be a chore.

 

[CrackedDSM]

If you like breaking parts and having a lower rev limit (8500 some do 9k but they are wild) then go with the 2.3, it will make more power with less, it will spool a turbo quicker, and it will break tramsmissions quicker. There are also other varations such as a 2.4, 4g64. 2.2, 2.1, destroker, long rod, or a combo of each yeilding different results. I have always been on a 2.0 with stock valve springs and a max rev of 8k (sinilar to a 2.3's max safe rev) it sucks . Reving higher is going to be a noce factor of the 2.0 with a built head.

With that said. For my next motor I'm considering a 2.0 long rod, or a 2.2 long rod de-stroker (using a 2.4 block) both will yeild a nice rev limit of 11k+ with proper supporting components. But since i currently hve a spare 6bolt I'll probably do the long rod 2.0.

If your daily driving though, 600-800whp is going to be a chore.

I have to refute your argument about the rev limit, with a proper girdle, an aftermarket forged crankshaft, and main studs, there is no reasons you can't rev a 2.3 or a 2.4 to 9k. Evo guys rev their 2.4s to damn near 10,000rpm and get plenty of miles while making killer HP and TQ. The "can't rev to 8k" thing is a blatant myth. I revved my built G4CS to 9k routinely when I lived in CO. Sold the motor to a guy who is still using it to this day, probably has near 100,000 miles on it.


For what it's worth though, I prefer the 2.4's all day to the 2.3. The 2.3 will oval the cylinders beyond what you can bore out within roughly 60,000 miles. The 2.4, especially a long-rod 2.4, will rev however high you want it, make whatever power and torque you want, and it'll hold whatever power you want as well with a simple o-ring setup. Build yourself a long-rod 2.4, OP, and forgo the 2.3 entirely. You'll really be happy with your decision.

 

[FilthyEagle]

So what is the difference between I beam rods and h beam rods?

 

[FilthyEagle]

Can any of you direct me to the forum page and a built 2.0, I did the research for the stroker, but ain't finding specs on the 2.0.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I have to refute your argument about the rev limit, with a proper girdle, an aftermarket forged crankshaft, and main studs, there is no reasons you can't rev a 2.3 or a 2.4 to 9k. Evo guys rev their 2.4s to damn near 10,000rpm and get plenty of miles while making killer HP and TQ. The "can't rev to 8k" thing is a blatant myth. I revved my built G4CS to 9k routinely when I lived in CO. Sold the motor to a guy who is still using it to this day, probably has near 100,000 miles on it.


For what it's worth though, I prefer the 2.4's all day to the 2.3. The 2.3 will oval the cylinders beyond what you can bore out within roughly 60,000 miles. The 2.4, especially a long-rod 2.4, will rev however high you want it, make whatever power and torque you want, and it'll hold whatever power you want as well with a simple o-ring setup. Build yourself a long-rod 2.4, OP, and forgo the 2.3 entirely. You'll really be happy with your decision.

I said the wild ones

 

[FilthyEagle]

So i have been looking about a built 2.0, I was thinking Eagle forged crank, Wiseco Pistons 85.5 (.020) bore with 9.5:1 compression, Manley LW Turbo Tuff I rods, cylinder head mods port polish, better valves, Better springs, B.C. stage 2 272/272 cam, adjustable cam gears, the block balanced with the new internals, have the oil valleys polished for better oil follow, BSE, upgrade all of the drivetrain, a lsd, a real good flywheel and clutch assembly, new aluminum radiator ( currently using a 1g), with an aftermarket turbo and FMI, bigger injectors( what is a good size), high volume fuel pump, aftermarket fuel rail, fuel pressure regulator(adjustable ), and high performance gasket kit with a head gasket 85.5 (.020).

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I'd skip the bc272's, why are you choosingg those cams for a 6-800whp build? I run them, but it's because i pulled them out of a buddys wrecked talon and pid $100 4 years ago. and i need way bigger, otherwise id have bought kelfords to start. i have bc stage 3 276/276 prototypes which are comparable to the kelford 272's and i still need to drop them in to test but even the 276/276 i think will be too small for me with my goals, with that said though, @keltalon saw gains of i believe 100whp just from going from the bc272 to the 276. And he popped right above 800whp on his fwd., and I'm looking for 800whp or 150mph traps. I'd go with a 280 cam to save yourself the swap down the road.


Still dont know what turbo you plan to run because a t3/t4 turbo could be anything and only refers to the flange that attaches to your manifold.

Injectors fic2150's
Pump walbro 450 and inline 044 or an aeromotive pro series in a fuel cell. Youll need -8an feed and -6 return

Clutch your looking at anything from an act2600 to a twin or even tripple disk setup. Youll need an intake manifold too if you plan for the larger od your goal..

Expect like 10-15k+

 

[FilthyEagle]

The turbo is a t04 .63AR 400+hp (eBay turbo ), can you give me the link to the build of 2.0, 2.1,2.2,2.3,2.4,2.6 . this way I can look and maybe go with a smaller stroke, also about long rod motors, what are these and link to them all. Please and thank you.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Youll have to search that for yourself I'm not gonna spoon feed you everything.

Please for the love of god dont spend all this money on a nice motor only to throw a chineese piece of shit on there. And how do you expect to make 600-800whp on a claimed 400whp turbo. Dude just trust me stay away from ebay turbos. Many will tell you the same thing.

Edit:
The fact you chose that turbo makes me believe this build isnt happening.... but it's nice to talk about

You do know like i said your looking to spend around15k to make that power goal. And you wanna spend under 500$ for a turbo? That could destroy your 15k investment

 

[FilthyEagle]

First off no one has said anything about eBay, so how am I suppose to know, also I have been researching about the differences in stock vs stroker. I am on here so I get it right, I don't want to spend 10-15k on a car and have it break cause I f***ed up and didn't get all the info correct. I have looked in to everything I can listened to what others have had to say both pros and cons. As this is my first 4g63t build I want to get it done right so I am asking allot of questions putting what I am gonna buy out there so I something is not gonna work I find out before I put it together and wasted 15k for nothing. So when I put a part on here that ain't gonna work, I need to know so I have the parts that will last. And if you don't think this build will happen ok, that's fine. However I do need to know what
will work and won't. So I would appreciate anyone's insight that will help me in getting where I need to on here.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Okay well first off, dont ever buy an ebay turbo unless it's a genuine brand of turbo for which is either new from an authorized vendor, or unless it's a used turbo of the brands I'm about to list.

Second, i will give you the turbo brands to consider, do your research on which one will cover the power you want. Popular ones in this crowd are in no preticular order

Precision
Forced performance
Garrett
Holset (for used and sometimes new depending on budget)
Borg warner
Mitsubishi MHI (for used)
Some run comp turbo but not as many as the above.

For a new turbo in the 800whp range and be reliable expect 1500-2500+for a ballbearing turbo and anywhere around 1000 for a journal bearing. (I was estimating this in your 15k)

But you should start a general build questions thread since. I just derailed this one from your motor questions... Sorry

 

[97 eclenger]

best stroker is the 4g64. Of coarse its just my opinion to. same rods as the 63 has but with the extra stroke length it won't hold up as well. but as they sit they can be mean little engines.

 

[CrackedDSM]

best stroker is the 4g64. Of coarse its just my opinion to. same rods as the 63 has but with the extra stroke length it won't hold up as well. but as they sit they can be mean little engines.

I'm curious, what personal experience do you have that leads you to believe they won't hold up as well as a 4G63? Considering that the blocks are near identical, the only difference being the 4G64 is 6mm taller, and has extra webbing inbetween cylinders for added strength?

 

[JacksonAuto]

On the street, DD, auto-x and road racing the stroker has the advantage. Pretty much the only time we build a 2.0 anymore is for customers with drag cars. If you want RPM you can build a stroker to rev, but there's little to no need for it because it will make a ton more usable power and torque at lower RPM's. Wear and tear is actually less on a stroker because all of the accessories aren't being over-driven. We have several customers with our 2.3L strokers and over 100k miles so reliability is not an issue.

Just food for thought, I've had a few customers over the years whom we built 2.0's for come back to build a 2.3. I have never had a customer with a 2.3 want to go back to a 2.0.

 

[JacksonAuto]

I'm curious, what personal experience do you have that leads you to believe they won't hold up as well as a 4G63? Considering that the blocks are near identical, the only difference being the 4G64 is 6mm taller, and has extra webbing inbetween cylinders for added strength?

The deck of the 4G64 block is thinner and so are the cylinder walls. Due to the larger bore there's less material between the cylinders (which is made worse when over boring) so getting a head gasket to seal under higher boost can be difficult.

 

[njclimber36]

JacksonAuto, your opinion is much appreciated. Do you feel that the differences in the 4g63 and 4g64 blocks offset the advantages of going with a longer rod in the 4g64? If you were building a street car in the 400whp range, which would you suggest? Thanks

 

[JacksonAuto]

At 400WHP you wont reach the limits of the 4G64 block. We use the 4G64 mostly in cases with Evo customers who don't have a usable 4G63 core block. The Evo blocks are close to $1000 on the used market which makes the '64 a good option at $350.

 

[boosted jarhead]

I have to refute your argument about the rev limit, with a proper girdle, an aftermarket forged crankshaft, and main studs, there is no reasons you can't rev a 2.3 or a 2.4 to 9k. Evo guys rev their 2.4s to damn near 10,000rpm and get plenty of miles while making killer HP and TQ. The "can't rev to 8k" thing is a blatant myth. I revved my built G4CS to 9k routinely when I lived in CO. Sold the motor to a guy who is still using it to this day, probably has near 100,000 miles on it.


For what it's worth though, I prefer the 2.4's all day to the 2.3. The 2.3 will oval the cylinders beyond what you can bore out within roughly 60,000 miles. The 2.4, especially a long-rod 2.4, will rev however high you want it, make whatever power and torque you want, and it'll hold whatever power you want as well with a simple o-ring setup. Build yourself a long-rod 2.4, OP, and forgo the 2.3 entirely. You'll really be happy with your decision.

I am currently building a 7 bolt 4g63t and I have always wanted a stroker, I have been reading on both built 2.0 and 2.3, I am looking to make 600-800awhp. One question which one will make it and still be daily driver.

 

[boosted jarhead]

I am building a 2.4 longrod hybrid and we can't get the damm thing into timing we retarded exausst 4 degrees and stil nothing can anyone with actual experience help?