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Billet compressor wheels

Posted by asrdave, Jan 27, 2012

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  1. Steve93Talon

    Steve93Talon Proven Member

    1,447
    93
    Joined Jan 20, 2005
    Philly Burbs, Pennsylvania
    Curious if everyone that's putting these together themselves is just throwing the new wheel into their CHRA, or are you re-balancing it? We just put together a friend's EVO IX billet 20g and as soon as it goes into boost the wheel is dragging on the compressor housing. The turbo was in perfect shape before it was disassembled, compresor housing is seated correctly, spins freely, minimal side to side play, no in-out, shaft nut is still tight. Everything points to a balance issue. I've built plenty of 16g and 20g's with cast wheels in the past without re-balancing and they were fine, wondering if it's an issue with this particular brand, or maybe the taller blade height...
     

    Attached Files:

    Drag Race Build 917  24

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    369.5 whp · 403.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM

    2K  7

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi
    11.784 @ 115.120 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  2. ZenkaiRacerDsM

    ZenkaiRacerDsM Proven Member

    659
    5
    Joined Nov 8, 2002
    Layton, Utah
    I put mine on myself as is.
     
  3. sqr

    sqr Proven Member

    81
    2
    Joined Apr 3, 2009
    Lancaster, Pennsylvania
    I put my kts 6 blade on the way it came out of the box. I have maybe 300-400 miles on it and have been to the track twice. A ok so far.

    I do have to believe that if the wheels flow more and have weight and load further from the bearings it is going to stress the bearings more.
     
  4. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

    1,174
    186
    Joined Nov 6, 2004
    tampa, Florida
    the rule is you can bolt it on to an original never rebuilt turbine wheel. if turbo was rebuilt at some point in time and balanced as an assembly to compressor weel then the turbine is no longer factory balanced by itself. you would need to balance the turbo before use in that case

    also if you overtighten nut during assemmbly the shaft can bend a tiny bit and cause this as well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2013

    Street Build 3K  0

    1994 eagle summit wagon JDM RVR swap
    automatic · 4G63t Swapped

    Street Build 3K  0

    1993
    manual · 4G63t Swapped
    Loading...
  5. pj91gsx

    pj91gsx Proven Member

    1,885
    8
    Joined Nov 25, 2007
    Stuart, Virginia
    Just to clarify this was never a balancing issue. The vband on the turbine housing wasn't tight, so the turbine wheel hit the turbine housing, bent the turbine and in doing so hit the compressor wheel to the housing. Be careful when you go to put the center section back one the turbine housing. Clamp the vband clamp with a pair of pliers then put the bolt an nut in. I had a similar issue when trying to rebuild a holset he351 for a friend. The turbo came out of the turbine housing fine. But we never could get the turbo to go back in the turbine housing like we wanted. We broke several vband clamps trying to get it tight, but the rust just wouldn't let us do it, because rust expands. It was so rusted up, that we had to take it home and sand blast it (3 hrs away).
     

    2K  0

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  6. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

    12,761
    744
    Joined Dec 13, 2005
    Greensburg, Pennsylvania
    Built this for a customer of Ricky's who was seeking a quick-spooling 400whp-capable turbo for a 2.3L stroker on E85 with a target boost level around 25psi on the street. Basically the guy was looking for the most-potent quick-spooling stock-appearing turbo that money can buy, and this is what I came up with.

    KTS 7-blade extended tip 20G compressor on a TD06SL2 turbine. Basically everything about this turbo is brand new with the exception of the center housing....even the wastegate actuator mounting bolts are new. I chose an 18psi FP actuator to combat dropping boost levels that would accompany the 34mm flapper.

    Definitely looking for some accurate airflow logs just to see what this wheel combo is truly capable of. :thumb:

    BilletTD06SL220G-1.jpg
    BilletTD06SL220G-2.jpg
    BilletTD06SL220G-3.jpg
    BilletTD06SL220G-4.jpg
     

    2K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 2G DSM

    5K  14

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    2K  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi
    manual · 1G DSM

    3K  0

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  7. hotrodssnova

    hotrodssnova Proven Member

    650
    43
    Joined Feb 14, 2009
    Houston, Texas
    Keep us posted. I have the same 7 blade wheel on mine, and it is a definite upgrade to the big 16, from the butt dyno. I also had to throw in some more fuel to my tune.
     

    Street Build 544  0

    1992 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo AWD
    automatic · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  8. ZenkaiRacerDsM

    ZenkaiRacerDsM Proven Member

    659
    5
    Joined Nov 8, 2002
    Layton, Utah
    I just started playing with linktools. After I went through a bunch of different versions of office.

    Anyways I noticed it shows me airflow in lbs/per min on the dyno tab. I don't have the numbers now since I wasn't logging everything required for the program to calculate it, but next time I do a 3rd gear pull I will have some numbers.

    Also my spool will be a ton better then what was shown on my dyno sheet. A line going to my boost control solenoid has been off for quite some time. All I can say now is that it is MUCH more fun with it hooked up!
     
  9. ZenkaiRacerDsM

    ZenkaiRacerDsM Proven Member

    659
    5
    Joined Nov 8, 2002
    Layton, Utah
    I have a new log. It seems I need to swap back to my manual hallman since I think my electronic boost controller is making it creep.

    Anyways, how can I calculate airflow in lbs/min when using speed density on link v3?
     
  10. ZenkaiRacerDsM

    ZenkaiRacerDsM Proven Member

    659
    5
    Joined Nov 8, 2002
    Layton, Utah
    So all these tuning pulls combined with the trips to the track has taken its toll on my CHRA.

    I noticed spool was getting slower and slower, eventually no longer hitting target boost and making kazoo sounds.

    Pulled the intake and there is excessive shaft play. Interestingly enough, its up and down play and not in and out. I would've thought the thrust bearing would've worn first since pairing this rather big compressor wheel with an 05h turbine wheel.

    Anyways, I noticed some people were assuming this was a turbo lab turbo. It is not. The compressor wheel is from turbo lab, the turbo was from FP. I bought it from FP in 2005 or 2006 as an 18G. So this turbo has served dutifully and I am not disappointed at all. I already have a rebuild kit ready to go with the "upgraded" thrust bearing. This time though, I will using a 06sl2 turbine wheel paired with a Bullseye (8cm?) turbine housing.

    The bad news as far as info on this turbo goes, is that I am putting my HX40 back on the car with a fresh CHRA. So this new 20G concoction's results will be a mystery as it will be my back up turbo.

    Well I lied! I cant bear having my car down for extended periods of time so I just rebuilt it today. When I took it off is when I noticed that it did infact also have excessive in/out play.

    I am no longer using the 11 blade wheel though. I believe its the reason my thrust bearing was eaten. With the extra weight, and extra work it puts in to move more air, paired with the td05h turbine wheel just makes for thrust bearing wear.

    There's a good post by JusMX141 somewhere that talks about this. It's actually the reason I had this rebuild kit on standby. I can't remember where the post is though. Maybe he can chime in on it in here, Justin?

    I'm using the N9 wheel that I purchased before. It has standard height blades and they are thinner resulting in a much lighter wheel. I can feel the big difference in my hands.

    Hopefully with this wheel and the "upgraded" thrust bearing it will last a bit longer.

    Here's a pic of the thrust bearing that I took out.

    thrustbearingwear.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2013
  11. Steve93Talon

    Steve93Talon Proven Member

    1,447
    93
    Joined Jan 20, 2005
    Philly Burbs, Pennsylvania
    Just saw this. When I assembled the turbo, the clamp was tight and the turbine housing was properly seated (I usually heat the housing up and the center cartridge drops right in and sits flush). He was trying to use an aftermarket j-pipe and it didn't fit so on the advice of someone else, he tried to re-clock the turbo by loosening the turbine clamp. He's got it back on the car and it's working well now.
     

    Drag Race Build 917  24

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    369.5 whp · 403.2 lb/ft · 1G DSM

    2K  7

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi
    11.784 @ 115.120 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  12. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

    12,761
    744
    Joined Dec 13, 2005
    Greensburg, Pennsylvania
    You assumed correct. The TD05H CHRA and bearing system on our cars was designed around a light 14B compressor at 12psi. It will literally last forever at that boost level with proper oiling.

    Heavier wheels and more boost will eventually spell disaster to OEM thrust hardware. You can combat this by moving the oil feed to the filter housing (properly-resctricted) for cooler oil and better idle pressure / volume, and you should always use a high-ZDDP oil.


    Your excessive thrust loads melted through the coating on the OEM bearing and into the inner steel core where friction and heat caused the thrust washer to split. You either weren't using a diesel/racing oil, didn't have your oil feed at the filter housing (restricted), or a combination of the two compounded by the fact that the OEM thrust hardware can't withstand thrust loads of heavy compressor wheels at speeds that at TD05H turbine can dish out.
     

    2K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 2G DSM

    5K  14

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    2K  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi
    manual · 1G DSM

    3K  0

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  13. ZenkaiRacerDsM

    ZenkaiRacerDsM Proven Member

    659
    5
    Joined Nov 8, 2002
    Layton, Utah
    My oil feed is from the filter housing. Using a -4 line and is not restricted. I do still have balance shafts so maybe that's why it hasn't been a problem?

    As for oil I've been using 10w-30 Castrol Edge Titanium. But's it's pretty expensive and I am going to give Shell Rotella T6 a try this week whenever my oil filter arrives.
     
  14. RWD4G63

    RWD4G63 Proven Member

    245
    10
    Joined Dec 7, 2011
    Mattawan, Michigan
    Just built this thing with an upgraded thrust plate and collar. We'll see how it performs soon.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. slow4dr

    slow4dr Proven Member

    19
    3
    Joined Aug 14, 2003
    Yucaipa, California
    I thought I had posted an update in here but apparently not. I went ahead and picked up an internally gated billet 6 blade with a 3" anti-surge cover and a SL2 with a 7cm housing.

    I was chasing a few unrelated issues but I believe I hove those sorted out so I should be hitting the dyno soon.

    IMG_1443_zpsb14a1a39.jpg

    IMG_1445_zpsd1a9cac4.jpg
     
  16. gimmie11s

    gimmie11s Proven Member

    161
    8
    Joined Jul 11, 2003
    So Cal., California
    Very nice sir
     

    248  1

    1992 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  17. RWD4G63

    RWD4G63 Proven Member

    245
    10
    Joined Dec 7, 2011
    Mattawan, Michigan
    Definitely let us know how it goes!
     
  18. pj91gsx

    pj91gsx Proven Member

    1,885
    8
    Joined Nov 25, 2007
    Stuart, Virginia
    Andy, what wheel is that the 56 x 75?
     

    2K  0

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  19. RWD4G63

    RWD4G63 Proven Member

    245
    10
    Joined Dec 7, 2011
    Mattawan, Michigan
    This is the 57x76 with 81mm extended tips.
     
  20. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

    1,174
    186
    Joined Nov 6, 2004
    tampa, Florida
    what did you mean when you said ef2 uses standard size wheel?
     

    Street Build 3K  0

    1994 eagle summit wagon JDM RVR swap
    automatic · 4G63t Swapped

    Street Build 3K  0

    1993
    manual · 4G63t Swapped
    Loading...
  21. RWD4G63

    RWD4G63 Proven Member

    245
    10
    Joined Dec 7, 2011
    Mattawan, Michigan
    We have a Holset HX40 here that was upgraded from a 58/83mm 8-blade to a 60x83mm 6-blade compressor wheel that will be going back on the dyno soon. So we'll have some back to back comparo's.

    John's Evo is also going to be done soon, and I really want to test the tall-blade extended tip 16G wheel in his turbo back to back on the dyno.

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Justin_l_

    Justin_l_ Proven Member

    129
    3
    Joined Jan 1, 2011
    Sanford, Maine
    Got this 7 blade wheel from Austin, put it in a MHI 20g with one of his compressor covers as well. This was a low mileage turbo fed from the head with an inline filter. It seized after about 300 miles, probably 1000 miles total. I will say it felt great while it lasted. Finally got around to pulling it apart, was shocked to see 3 of the shorter blades broken, and 2 others cracked. I don't know what brand wheel it is, maybe he can chime in here.
    C192D140-2B17-4FE5-8A7A-8E37103FE725-8612-000006090B64D943_zps63ff900c.jpg
    Crack/tear is about 12:00 in the pic
    23C86DA3-8EEE-4F20-B94D-6F69179FB1A2-8612-0000060A775E8187_zpsecdfca37.jpg
     

    2K  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.066 @ 106.880 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  23. RWD4G63

    RWD4G63 Proven Member

    245
    10
    Joined Dec 7, 2011
    Mattawan, Michigan
    Is there any sign of contact with the compressor cover?

    I still don't like feeding turbos from the head, I know stock turbos are fed from there, but from the OFH with a -3 line just seems so much more reliable.

    Do you know what kind of oil pressure it was seeing?

    That is a Kawasaki Turbo Systems Japan wheel (KTS).

    Had this HX40 get a 66x84 exteded tip upgrade.

    [​IMG]
     
  24. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

    12,761
    744
    Joined Dec 13, 2005
    Greensburg, Pennsylvania
    Did you just swap the wheel and leave all OEM internals?

    If it was built using upgraded thrust hardware, and I'm sure it was, the head feed is a big mistake. The additional oiling hole causes too much parasitic drain on the available oil volume and pressure, lowering the oil flow that reaches other critical areas of the turbo.
     

    2K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 2G DSM

    5K  14

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    2K  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi
    manual · 1G DSM

    3K  0

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  25. 94awdcoupe

    94awdcoupe Proven Member

    1,174
    186
    Joined Nov 6, 2004
    tampa, Florida
    where do you get this stuff? just complete rubbish.
     

    Street Build 3K  0

    1994 eagle summit wagon JDM RVR swap
    automatic · 4G63t Swapped

    Street Build 3K  0

    1993
    manual · 4G63t Swapped
    Loading...

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