1. Join the Community!

    DSMtuners is a massive archive of DSM information - but more importantly, it's a COMMUNITY! Join in and participate with other DSMers, and invite all of your DSM friends to make this place their home. Chat with others, create a build thread, post questions and answers. Get involved! Logging in will also remove many of the advertisements, along with this notice. ;)

Billet compressor wheels

Posted by asrdave, Jan 27, 2012

Please Support STM Tuned
Please Support ExtremePSI
  1. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

    12,761
    746
    Joined Dec 13, 2005
    Greensburg, Pennsylvania
    Keep in mind it will cost around $100 or so to have a turbine housing machined....FP sells their 8cm housings already cut for TD06H turbines for $195 brand new. This housing is based directly from the old 78-12050 MHI 8cm housing which came on Greddy 18G's.
     

    3K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 2G DSM

    5K  14

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    3K  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi
    manual · 1G DSM

    3K  0

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  2. agentorange313

    agentorange313 Supporting VIP

    1,828
    51
    Joined Dec 21, 2008
    Westfield, New Jersey
    td06 or td06h?

    they are two different sizes

    you could still use the FP housing, just need to get a td05h size and machine it.

    I dont see many td06 turbos, plenty of td06h (and variants).

    TD06
    Inducer - 65mm
    Exducer - 55.25mm

    TD06H
    Inducer - 67.2
    Exducer - 58.8mm

    TD06SL2
    Inducer - 61mm
    Exducer - 54mm
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2013

    2K  0

    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    manual · Galant VR-4

    1K  0

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.455 @ 104.000 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  3. blackrosenova40

    blackrosenova40 Proven Member

    395
    1
    Joined Jan 12, 2006
    Belle Plaine, Minnesota
    I was thinking a Td06sl2 would be a good balance with an FP 8cm and a 20g 6+6 extended tip.

    You may have the inducer and exducer sizes swapped on the td06 agentorange.
     

    406  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  4. agentorange313

    agentorange313 Supporting VIP

    1,828
    51
    Joined Dec 21, 2008
    Westfield, New Jersey
    You are absoluelty correct, the second time Ive made this mistake, I copied and pasted it from a document I have. I will correct it at the source this time. Thanks
     

    2K  0

    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    manual · Galant VR-4

    1K  0

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.455 @ 104.000 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  5. rr06rs

    rr06rs Supporting Member

    401
    2
    Joined Apr 25, 2009
    Jacksonville, Florida
    How can the inducer be smaller than the exducer?
     
  6. agentorange313

    agentorange313 Supporting VIP

    1,828
    51
    Joined Dec 21, 2008
    Westfield, New Jersey
    compressor wheels and turbine wheels have the inducer and exducers opposed.
    It should be noted that the turbine wheels in this image are in the wrong orientation.
    6b2eb3bd.gif
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2014

    2K  0

    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    manual · Galant VR-4

    1K  0

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.455 @ 104.000 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  7. rr06rs

    rr06rs Supporting Member

    401
    2
    Joined Apr 25, 2009
    Jacksonville, Florida
    I meant say smaller. I understand the way it works. I just don't see how the inducer can be smaller when referring to the turbine?
     
  8. agentorange313

    agentorange313 Supporting VIP

    1,828
    51
    Joined Dec 21, 2008
    Westfield, New Jersey
    none of the turbine measurements reflect that. I corrected them thanks to blackrosenova40. sorry for the confusion if my post caused any.
     

    2K  0

    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    manual · Galant VR-4

    1K  0

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.455 @ 104.000 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  9. rr06rs

    rr06rs Supporting Member

    401
    2
    Joined Apr 25, 2009
    Jacksonville, Florida
    Gotcha. I see that now. My bad.
     
  10. blackrosenova40

    blackrosenova40 Proven Member

    395
    1
    Joined Jan 12, 2006
    Belle Plaine, Minnesota

    406  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  11. slow4dr

    slow4dr Proven Member

    19
    3
    Joined Aug 14, 2003
    Yucaipa, California
    Damn it! You a-holes need to quit tempting me.

    So what would stop me from using a 14B CHRA, swap that turbine, get an 8cm housing from FP, throw on a billet 20G and an anti-surge housing onto it? Of course rebuild it while it is apart. Considering 14B's are a dime a dozen this seems like a very cost effective way to put a nasty little 20G together.
     
  12. pearl4gtsi

    pearl4gtsi Proven Member

    184
    2
    Joined Jul 17, 2004
    yonkers, New York
    You would have to have the 14b chra milled to accept the 20g wheel. Although if you had a big 16g chra, it drops right in.
     

    436  33

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  13. polarmoment

    polarmoment Proven Member

    238
    12
    Joined Nov 5, 2004
    Arvada, Colorado
  14. agentorange313

    agentorange313 Supporting VIP

    1,828
    51
    Joined Dec 21, 2008
    Westfield, New Jersey
    Looks like an attempt at FPs new 9 blade 65mm wheel from the new MHI TF06-18K. Forced Performance Turbochargers: MHI TF06-18K

    Jus also talked earlier in this thread about how he was surprised the hub size didn't get smaller, its a trend in compressor design so far. Do you guys think this kinugawa hub looks smaller?


    Note the FP version has swept turbine blades
    [​IMG]
    40602027002T.wheelTD06SL29BA.jpg
     

    2K  0

    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    manual · Galant VR-4

    1K  0

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.455 @ 104.000 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  15. slow4dr

    slow4dr Proven Member

    19
    3
    Joined Aug 14, 2003
    Yucaipa, California
    The CHRA needs to be milled? On the hot side?
     
  16. pearl4gtsi

    pearl4gtsi Proven Member

    184
    2
    Joined Jul 17, 2004
    yonkers, New York
    No, on the compressor side. The circumference of the compressor wheels exducer on a big 16g/18g/20g is bigger than on the 14b/small 16g chra's
     

    436  33

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  17. slow4dr

    slow4dr Proven Member

    19
    3
    Joined Aug 14, 2003
    Yucaipa, California
    I am familiar with the wheel size differences I just can't picture how that effects the chra, the compressor housing sure, but not the chra. I can even see the backing plate needing to be machined but I just can't picture how the chra is affected.
     
  18. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

    12,761
    746
    Joined Dec 13, 2005
    Greensburg, Pennsylvania

    3K  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 2G DSM

    5K  14

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    3K  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi
    manual · 1G DSM

    3K  0

    1993 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  19. pearl4gtsi

    pearl4gtsi Proven Member

    184
    2
    Joined Jul 17, 2004
    yonkers, New York

    436  33

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  20. slow4dr

    slow4dr Proven Member

    19
    3
    Joined Aug 14, 2003
    Yucaipa, California
  21. RWD4G63

    RWD4G63 Proven Member

    270
    30
    Joined Dec 7, 2011
    Paw Paw, Michigan
    Evo 8 billet 16G with TD06SL2 turbine and 11.5 hotside I just built for a street class time attack car. I used a KTS wheel I posted earlier. They are limited to a 16g inducer size.

    73FFF508-BFD4-4A99-8D22-D4ABA3BE14F3-26102-000008CF42CCA44B_zps289609de.jpg
     

    Road Race Build 95  3

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  22. jongraack

    jongraack Proven Member

    138
    0
    Joined Jul 14, 2011
    Saint Joseph, Michigan
    This is my first rebuild and it came with an upgrade. I took my original MHI big 16g that was in really rough looking shape and turned it in to this beast. Full rebuild kit with new td05 turbine shaft, new a/r .70 turbine housing, new 3" 20g compressor housing and topped it off with an 11-Blde billet 20g compressor wheel.
     

    Attached Files:

    • 017.jpg
      017.jpg
      File size:
      45.1 KB
      Views:
      233
    • 019.jpg
      019.jpg
      File size:
      38.2 KB
      Views:
      179
    • 015.jpg
      015.jpg
      File size:
      45.9 KB
      Views:
      184
  23. agentorange313

    agentorange313 Supporting VIP

    1,828
    51
    Joined Dec 21, 2008
    Westfield, New Jersey
    I know it says A/R .70 on the housing, but mitsu 7cm housings are closer to A/R .49. They probably stamped it .70 because its 7cm housing, idiots.

    Let us know how the turbo turns out, it will probably surge, it is a huge compressor wheel mated with a td05h turbine. Might need a antisurge housing.
     

    2K  0

    1991 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4
    manual · Galant VR-4

    1K  0

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.455 @ 104.000 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  24. jongraack

    jongraack Proven Member

    138
    0
    Joined Jul 14, 2011
    Saint Joseph, Michigan
    It's all about trial and error when it comes to building for me. I like to have fun with different parts and see what I can come up with. From what I was told, it shouldn't surge much at all with proper tune and supporting mods. But if it does, there's no reason I couldn't try out the anti-surge comp housing:thumb:. I'll update when I start running it if I don't sell it first. I'm also working on an hx40 billet 6-blade with dsm BEP .55 housing, so I'm not positive which one I am going to run yet.
     
  25. polarmoment

    polarmoment Proven Member

    238
    12
    Joined Nov 5, 2004
    Arvada, Colorado
    I'm not so sure.

    The 7 blade wheel doesn't surge at all mated with an 05h turbine in an 8cm² housing on my car. I've seen 30psi (Pressure ratio of 3.45 at my elevation) at 3500rpm in 3rd gear briefly with zero hint of surge. Granted, the 7 blade has the advantage of higher blade count (14) over the 11 blade. You can see in the models below the effect that blade count has on slip factor and efficiency (Z= number of blades).

    Part of the increase in efficiency means more exhaust is wastegated, which reduces the overall restriction of the smaller wheel. At lower boost, this setup makes the same power figures that my old TD06-20g did, but with significantly faster spool.

    There are two things about all these newer wheels that will help prevent surge:
    1. Extended tips.
    This acts like a wheel with a slightly larger exducer. This reduces the radius ratio (RR) of the wheel, and improves its slip factor:
    RadiusRatio_zps508bc8a0.png
    The 20g is already one of the largest RR wheels out there at ~0.77, and it's already operating in the region of the model where efficiency is dropping off quickly. Extended tips move the RR to the left on the model. In fact, I think the 20g wheel probably benefits from extended tip technology more than any other wheel out there, for this very reason.

    2. Larger blade angle.
    The OEM MHI blade angle is around 28° and these new billet wheels about double that. Smaller blade angle helps generate more velocity off the exducer tips, which translates to pressure in the diffuser and scroll more quickly (i.e. quicker spool), but as the linear speed of the exducer increases, it also results in massive shock losses as the air exits the blades.
    BladeAngle_zpsb69828c9.png

    The larger blade angle doesn't build pressure as quickly (though I believe these wheels make up for it in volume flow per revolution), but it eases the transition off the exducer and into the diffuser, allowing higher wheel speeds before shock losses begin to choke the compressor. When the 20g spools up too fast, the shock losses result in the pressure breaking down, which starts the surging. You'll notice all the other MHI wheels that use the same blade angle have the same rightward dip of the surge line above 2.0PR.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2014
    JusMX141 likes this.

Share This Page

Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Archer Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Feal Suspension Fuel Injector Clinic Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications OHM Racing RixRacing RockAuto SouthBay Fuel Injectors STM Tuned Track Decals Track Sculptures VR Speed Factory WheelWell.com