Billet compressor wheels

[Steve93Talon]

Curious if everyone that's putting these together themselves is just throwing the new wheel into their CHRA, or are you re-balancing it? We just put together a friend's EVO IX billet 20g and as soon as it goes into boost the wheel is dragging on the compressor housing. The turbo was in perfect shape before it was disassembled, compresor housing is seated correctly, spins freely, minimal side to side play, no in-out, shaft nut is still tight. Everything points to a balance issue. I've built plenty of 16g and 20g's with cast wheels in the past without re-balancing and they were fine, wondering if it's an issue with this particular brand, or maybe the taller blade height...

 

[ZenkaiRacerDsM]

I put mine on myself as is.

 

[sqr]

I put my kts 6 blade on the way it came out of the box. I have maybe 300-400 miles on it and have been to the track twice. A ok so far.

I do have to believe that if the wheels flow more and have weight and load further from the bearings it is going to stress the bearings more.

 

[94awdcoupe]

the rule is you can bolt it on to an original never rebuilt turbine wheel. if turbo was rebuilt at some point in time and balanced as an assembly to compressor weel then the turbine is no longer factory balanced by itself. you would need to balance the turbo before use in that case

also if you overtighten nut during assemmbly the shaft can bend a tiny bit and cause this as well.

 

[pj91gsx]

Curious if everyone that's putting these together themselves is just throwing the new wheel into their CHRA, or are you re-balancing it? We just put together a friend's EVO IX billet 20g and as soon as it goes into boost the wheel is dragging on the compressor housing. The turbo was in perfect shape before it was disassembled, compresor housing is seated correctly, spins freely, minimal side to side play, no in-out, shaft nut is still tight. Everything points to a balance issue. I've built plenty of 16g and 20g's with cast wheels in the past without re-balancing and they were fine, wondering if it's an issue with this particular brand, or maybe the taller blade height...

Just to clarify this was never a balancing issue. The vband on the turbine housing wasn't tight, so the turbine wheel hit the turbine housing, bent the turbine and in doing so hit the compressor wheel to the housing. Be careful when you go to put the center section back one the turbine housing. Clamp the vband clamp with a pair of pliers then put the bolt an nut in. I had a similar issue when trying to rebuild a holset he351 for a friend. The turbo came out of the turbine housing fine. But we never could get the turbo to go back in the turbine housing like we wanted. We broke several vband clamps trying to get it tight, but the rust just wouldn't let us do it, because rust expands. It was so rusted up, that we had to take it home and sand blast it (3 hrs away).

 

[JusMX141]

Built this for a customer of Ricky's who was seeking a quick-spooling 400whp-capable turbo for a 2.3L stroker on E85 with a target boost level around 25psi on the street. Basically the guy was looking for the most-potent quick-spooling stock-appearing turbo that money can buy, and this is what I came up with.

KTS 7-blade extended tip 20G compressor on a TD06SL2 turbine. Basically everything about this turbo is brand new with the exception of the center housing....even the wastegate actuator mounting bolts are new. I chose an 18psi FP actuator to combat dropping boost levels that would accompany the 34mm flapper.

Definitely looking for some accurate airflow logs just to see what this wheel combo is truly capable of.

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[hotrodssnova]

Keep us posted. I have the same 7 blade wheel on mine, and it is a definite upgrade to the big 16, from the butt dyno. I also had to throw in some more fuel to my tune.

 

[ZenkaiRacerDsM]

I just started playing with linktools. After I went through a bunch of different versions of office.

Anyways I noticed it shows me airflow in lbs/per min on the dyno tab. I don't have the numbers now since I wasn't logging everything required for the program to calculate it, but next time I do a 3rd gear pull I will have some numbers.

Also my spool will be a ton better then what was shown on my dyno sheet. A line going to my boost control solenoid has been off for quite some time. All I can say now is that it is MUCH more fun with it hooked up!

 

[ZenkaiRacerDsM]

I have a new log. It seems I need to swap back to my manual hallman since I think my electronic boost controller is making it creep.

Anyways, how can I calculate airflow in lbs/min when using speed density on link v3?

 

[ZenkaiRacerDsM]

So all these tuning pulls combined with the trips to the track has taken its toll on my CHRA.

I noticed spool was getting slower and slower, eventually no longer hitting target boost and making kazoo sounds.

Pulled the intake and there is excessive shaft play. Interestingly enough, its up and down play and not in and out. I would've thought the thrust bearing would've worn first since pairing this rather big compressor wheel with an 05h turbine wheel.

Anyways, I noticed some people were assuming this was a turbo lab turbo. It is not. The compressor wheel is from turbo lab, the turbo was from FP. I bought it from FP in 2005 or 2006 as an 18G. So this turbo has served dutifully and I am not disappointed at all. I already have a rebuild kit ready to go with the "upgraded" thrust bearing. This time though, I will using a 06sl2 turbine wheel paired with a Bullseye (8cm?) turbine housing.

The bad news as far as info on this turbo goes, is that I am putting my HX40 back on the car with a fresh CHRA. So this new 20G concoction's results will be a mystery as it will be my back up turbo.

Well I lied! I cant bear having my car down for extended periods of time so I just rebuilt it today. When I took it off is when I noticed that it did infact also have excessive in/out play.

I am no longer using the 11 blade wheel though. I believe its the reason my thrust bearing was eaten. With the extra weight, and extra work it puts in to move more air, paired with the td05h turbine wheel just makes for thrust bearing wear.

There's a good post by JusMX141 somewhere that talks about this. It's actually the reason I had this rebuild kit on standby. I can't remember where the post is though. Maybe he can chime in on it in here, Justin?

I'm using the N9 wheel that I purchased before. It has standard height blades and they are thinner resulting in a much lighter wheel. I can feel the big difference in my hands.

Hopefully with this wheel and the "upgraded" thrust bearing it will last a bit longer.

Here's a pic of the thrust bearing that I took out.

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[Steve93Talon]

Just to clarify this was never a balancing issue. The vband on the turbine housing wasn't tight, so the turbine wheel hit the turbine housing, bent the turbine and in doing so hit the compressor wheel to the housing. Be careful when you go to put the center section back one the turbine housing. Clamp the vband clamp with a pair of pliers then put the bolt an nut in. I had a similar issue when trying to rebuild a holset he351 for a friend. The turbo came out of the turbine housing fine. But we never could get the turbo to go back in the turbine housing like we wanted. We broke several vband clamps trying to get it tight, but the rust just wouldn't let us do it, because rust expands. It was so rusted up, that we had to take it home and sand blast it (3 hrs away).

Just saw this. When I assembled the turbo, the clamp was tight and the turbine housing was properly seated (I usually heat the housing up and the center cartridge drops right in and sits flush). He was trying to use an aftermarket j-pipe and it didn't fit so on the advice of someone else, he tried to re-clock the turbo by loosening the turbine clamp. He's got it back on the car and it's working well now.

 

[JusMX141]

Well I lied! I cant bear having my car down for extended periods of time so I just rebuilt it today. When I took it off is when I noticed that it did infact also have excessive in/out play.

I am no longer using the 11 blade wheel though. I believe its the reason my thrust bearing was eaten. With the extra weight, and extra work it puts in to move more air, paired with the td05h turbine wheel just makes for thrust bearing wear.

You assumed correct. The TD05H CHRA and bearing system on our cars was designed around a light 14B compressor at 12psi. It will literally last forever at that boost level with proper oiling.

Heavier wheels and more boost will eventually spell disaster to OEM thrust hardware. You can combat this by moving the oil feed to the filter housing (properly-resctricted) for cooler oil and better idle pressure / volume, and you should always use a high-ZDDP oil.


Your excessive thrust loads melted through the coating on the OEM bearing and into the inner steel core where friction and heat caused the thrust washer to split. You either weren't using a diesel/racing oil, didn't have your oil feed at the filter housing (restricted), or a combination of the two compounded by the fact that the OEM thrust hardware can't withstand thrust loads of heavy compressor wheels at speeds that at TD05H turbine can dish out.

 

[ZenkaiRacerDsM]

My oil feed is from the filter housing. Using a -4 line and is not restricted. I do still have balance shafts so maybe that's why it hasn't been a problem?

As for oil I've been using 10w-30 Castrol Edge Titanium. But's it's pretty expensive and I am going to give Shell Rotella T6 a try this week whenever my oil filter arrives.

 

[RWD4G63]

Just built this thing with an upgraded thrust plate and collar. We'll see how it performs soon.

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[slow4dr]

I thought I had posted an update in here but apparently not. I went ahead and picked up an internally gated billet 6 blade with a 3" anti-surge cover and a SL2 with a 7cm housing.

I was chasing a few unrelated issues but I believe I hove those sorted out so I should be hitting the dyno soon.

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[gimmie11s]

Very nice sir

 

[RWD4G63]

Definitely let us know how it goes!

 

[pj91gsx]

Andy, what wheel is that the 56 x 75?

 

[RWD4G63]

This is the 57x76 with 81mm extended tips.

 

[94awdcoupe]

The less blades there are, the better a certain compressor performs at high boost (generally). The reason the 11-blade wheel doesn't have staggered minor/major blades is because there's an odd number so they couldn't be spaced evenly.

To go a step further, the MAP EF2 uses a standard-size billet compressor that has 10 total blades- 5 minor, 5 major:

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what did you mean when you said ef2 uses standard size wheel?

 

[RWD4G63]

We have a Holset HX40 here that was upgraded from a 58/83mm 8-blade to a 60x83mm 6-blade compressor wheel that will be going back on the dyno soon. So we'll have some back to back comparo's.

John's Evo is also going to be done soon, and I really want to test the tall-blade extended tip 16G wheel in his turbo back to back on the dyno.

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[Justin_l_]

Got this 7 blade wheel from Austin, put it in a MHI 20g with one of his compressor covers as well. This was a low mileage turbo fed from the head with an inline filter. It seized after about 300 miles, probably 1000 miles total. I will say it felt great while it lasted. Finally got around to pulling it apart, was shocked to see 3 of the shorter blades broken, and 2 others cracked. I don't know what brand wheel it is, maybe he can chime in here.

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Crack/tear is about 12:00 in the pic

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[RWD4G63]

Is there any sign of contact with the compressor cover?

I still don't like feeding turbos from the head, I know stock turbos are fed from there, but from the OFH with a -3 line just seems so much more reliable.

Do you know what kind of oil pressure it was seeing?

That is a Kawasaki Turbo Systems Japan wheel (KTS).

Had this HX40 get a 66x84 exteded tip upgrade.

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[JusMX141]

This was a low mileage turbo fed from the head with an inline filter. It seized after about 300 miles, probably 1000 miles total.

Did you just swap the wheel and leave all OEM internals?

If it was built using upgraded thrust hardware, and I'm sure it was, the head feed is a big mistake. The additional oiling hole causes too much parasitic drain on the available oil volume and pressure, lowering the oil flow that reaches other critical areas of the turbo.

 

[94awdcoupe]

Did you just swap the wheel and leave all OEM internals?

If it was built using upgraded thrust hardware, and I'm sure it was, the head feed is a big mistake. The additional oiling hole causes too much parasitic drain on the available oil volume and pressure, lowering the oil flow that reaches other critical areas of the turbo.

where do you get this stuff? just complete rubbish.