Audio System Upgrade

[D_Eclipse9916]

I agree. I have Type S speakers for mids and highs with high pass crossovers. I have subs for the hard hitting bass.

An amp sub system with speakers and head unit is going to be hard to find for less than 600 if your getting a good system, especially if your making sure to get good quality wires. Some people are real surprised when they switch to better speakers and head unit and suddenly lose some of the bass they had before, I get it all the time. A real nice system would be a nice little 10, then the alpines all around with everything amped, a cd6000 head unit with 8-volt preouts. That would be a nice ltitle cheap system that would sound good with any music. I used to have a prety hard-hitting system and now that im trying to save weight, I just comment on the bass because without a sub, its real hard to get those deep notes, even harder without an amp on the speakers, which is why speaker and head unit choice is VERY important even more so than without an amped system.

Not saying you guys are wrong, and techinically you are not, but we are appealing to a wide range of audience so I was giving options!

 

[napkinthief]

Why is everyone hating on Sony for car audio. I have 2 subs and a 1400 watt amp in my car from the sony xplod series, 6 months and no problems. Sounds great too. How many of you actually used a sony product in your car and not based it on what youve seen on the internet. I would recommend sony for anyone. I got my amp, 2 12" xplod subs and all wiring off ebay new for under 300$.

 

[a_scobel]

Why is everyone hating on Sony for car audio. I have 2 subs and a 1400 watt amp in my car from the sony xplod series, 6 months and no problems. Sounds great too. How many of you actually used a sony product in your car and not based it on what youve seen on the internet. I would recommend sony for anyone. I got my amp, 2 12" xplod subs and all wiring off ebay new for under 300$.

I used to think their Xplod headunits were awesome back in the day, back when I just cared about how the display looked more than anything else. Then my Xplod headunit crapped out on me, and the one my sister had in her car crapped out on her. Friend had Sony speakers in his car..amped & everything. I was not really impressed with the sound quality.

 

[snyper1982]

If you spend a lot of money on high "quality" wire, I could come smack you..... to each his own, but I like to base my purchasing decision on science and common sense. High "quality" wires will NOT make one bit of difference. Don't believe me? Do a double blind test with your high quality wires, and some of your run of the mill radio shack ones, shoot, eve use a damned coat hanger. If you can honestly tell a difference, you should be able to pick the high quality ones, 10 out of 10 times. Richard Clark of carsound.com has a 10,000 dollar contest that has been running for years, saying that no one can, so far no one has won. Same with amplifiers. That in and of itself speaks volumes.

As for a nice cheap system get a Jensen deck, a mtx amp, 10" eclipse sub and box, pioneer speakers off deck power, should come out right around 6-700.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

If you spend a lot of money on high "quality" wire, I could come smack you..... to each his own, but I like to base my purchasing decision on science and common sense. High "quality" wires will NOT make one bit of difference. Don't believe me? Do a double blind test with your high quality wires, and some of your run of the mill radio shack ones, shoot, eve use a damned coat hanger. If you can honestly tell a difference, you should be able to pick the high quality ones, 10 out of 10 times. Richard Clark of carsound.com has a 10,000 dollar contest that has been running for years, saying that no one can, so far no one has won. Same with amplifiers. That in and of itself speaks volumes.

As for a nice cheap system get a Jensen deck, a mtx amp, 10" eclipse sub and box, pioneer speakers off deck power, should come out right around 6-700.

I would like to hear your interpretation on how high quality rcas are NOT different than low-quality rcas. I would really like to hear this scientific explanation instead of you blurting out shit, when you havent even explained your qualifications. Also, your just ignorant if you beleive 8 gauge is going to be just as good as 4-gauge. And you even suggest a coat-hangar?


WOW, I just read your last sentence, and I realize just how much you are spouting wrong information. This is why we give bad feedback. You suggest a Jensen deck, that is the first sign that you do not realize what you are talking about. JEnsen decks are the biggest piece of junk in the industry. Obviously you have NEVER worked in car audio as you would realize that simple fact. 9/10 Jensen decks that are sold come back as defective, go ask any of your local dealers which deck they defect the most and you will get the answer Jensen. PS- I am installer and see us def all these crap units, and I DO tell the difference when I install Sony, compared to when I install Alpine.

And to the guy that likes Sony, they are nowhere as near as bad as jensen, but do not have near the quality of others such as Alpine, Eclipse and Clarion.

 

[snyper1982]

I would like to hear your interpretation on how high quality rcas are NOT different than low-quality rcas. I would really like to hear this scientific explanation instead of you blurting out shit, when you havent even explained your qualifications. Also, your just ignorant if you beleive 8 gauge is going to be just as good as 4-gauge. And you even suggest a coat-hangar?


WOW, I just read your last sentence, and I realize just how much you are spouting wrong information. This is why we give bad feedback. You suggest a Jensen deck, that is the first sign that you do not realize what you are talking about. JEnsen decks are the biggest piece of junk in the industry. Obviously you have NEVER worked in car audio as you would realize that simple fact. 9/10 Jensen decks that are sold come back as defective, go ask any of your local dealers which deck they defect the most and you will get the answer Jensen. PS- I am installer and see us def all these crap units, and I DO tell the difference when I install Sony, compared to when I install Alpine.

And to the guy that likes Sony, they are nowhere as near as bad as jensen, but do not have near the quality of others such as Alpine, Eclipse and Clarion.

You want my interpretation how HQ RCA's are not different. I never said they weren't different. They most definately are different, what I am saying is that they will not make one bit of difference in sound.

The burden of proof doesn't lie on me, it is on you. I never claimed these "MAGIC" wires make a difference in sound. You are the one spouting FALSE info. I Was speaking of speaker wire with the coat hanger. Of course different GAUGE wire makes a difference, but because it has a fancy coating and some slick marketing terms and the name -edit- on it makes it no better than any other wire of the SAME AWG.

From PERSONAL experience I have seen and heard Jensen decks, they are ok for a cheap system. Maybe the decks I have seen were just the exception to the rule, but they have been running for 2+ years. Would I personally run one? No, I have eclipse 8445.

I don't see why you are getting so hostile, I never attacked you in any way, I was simply stating that a fact. The Voodoo marketing and snake oil salesmen want people to believe that HQ wire will make a difference, but the fact is the claims they make will never hold up in a properly run double blind ABX test.

Since you are so adamant about it, go take the Richard Clark Wire Challenge. You can gain an easy $10,000 from it, since you are obviously a Golden ear and can easily hear a difference between high quality RCA's and Radio Shack ones, it should be easy money.

-edit-
Edited out the brand name, because that company does not actualy make these claims.

 

[fr33b1rth]

bottom line, i've put many of the systems that i suggested in lots of different cars, sounds clean, and doesn't take up too much space.

as for speaker wire for subs, bigger isn't always better. lower impedance is better. over long travels there will be some resistance generated. generally over the short distances that the sub speaker wire travels it's not a big deal though. we put a lot of voltage through wire, but not too much amprege. usually 3A at most, and 18ga wire is rated to handle that.

as for speaker wire ran throughout the car, you won't be able to tell a difference between $1/ft and $1/roll wire if it's ran correctly in an "ideal" situation. now if you are talking about specially twisted wire that has been wraped in RF resistant material and you are running them in a car next to lots of other wires then yes, you will notice that you don't get any strange noises in the speakers, but that's it. no difference in quality, they won't "magiclly" make your speakers sound better, just no funny noises.

different amps do sound different. for instance, tube amps are the cleanest things that i have ever heared, but they don't have that much power. different filters that companies use makes a big difference in SQ, as well as the ability for the amplifier to maintain a constant voltage internally.

 

[snyper1982]

HAHA. RF shielding. You know what RF means right? Radio frequency. RF shielded wires work fine, they do exactly what they say, shield RF frequencies, however seeing as those frequencies are out of the audio range, they have absolutely no impact on noise. Snake oil....

It is easy enough to see for yourself. Do a simple double blind test on them, and you will see I am right.


I also suppose that you should NEVER run your RCA's by your power wire? These are all myths that are passed around with absolutely no science backing up the claims.

Yeah I agree amps do sound different, they are easily measured, but seeing as a humans can only hear a couple percent distorion and up, you will never ever hear a difference in them. You see what I am getting at? Hate to burst your bubble, but you can get the same sound from a regular amp as a tube amp, by throwing a resistor in line with your speakers. You think you can hear a difference between the amplification stages of two amps? Take Richard Clark Amp Challenge, and make yourself 10K. I will place a side bet that you won't win.....

I am not trying to come off as an asshole, I am in all honesty trying to shed some light on some of this, and help some people. I used to think the same things as you guys, but it is simply not true. Take my posts however you want, but if you are a semi-inteligent person, you will at least be curious to what I have said.

 

[fr33b1rth]

the main difference that people hear between amps is the signal to noise ratio. for example, for the longest time i had a eclipse head unit, jl 500/1 and two JL 1w0's. the mtx amp that i was using to power my full range speakers died, so i got a cheap pyramid 4 channel. tuned the amp flat while ajusting the amp's gain to the voltage of my rca preouts, and it sounded like crap. lots of background noize and funny clicks and pops. all i changed was the amp, got a audiobahn a4004t and it works great, all the funny noises are gone.\

do you know how electricity works? when dc current runs down a wire, it generates a magnetic current generating RF interference. rf interference can be transmitted and picked up by speaker wire, causing unwanted movements in a speaker's voice coil (although they may not be audible). whenever the voice coil moves when you don't want it to, it's harder for the speaker to play what the signal is telling it to.

if you don't believe me about the magnetic field, do some research on electromagnets.

i'm not arguing that in a "perfect" world that speaker wire makes no difference. if you run 10' of speaker wire with nothing around it, then there isn't any interference, and you won't hear any difference. run the same speaker wire next to 0ga wire that has 125amps running though it and there will be a current picked up by that wire.

why do you think that a lot of wiring harnesses are shielded? because they can crosstalk. it's a proven fact.

this test that you speak of simply tests the audible difference between speaker wire in "normal" conditions. in "normal" conditions every wire will act the same.

RCA's running next to a 4 or 0ga wire with 80+amps runnign through it is far from "normal".

oh, and don't even think about arguing crosstalk because it has been proven that spark plug wires can and will do it.

 

[Glliw]

Not to highjack back my own thread from you guys but....How many channels is the stock amp? Are all the speakers powered by it?

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

i have a simple jvc kd-series deck.. 12 kicker and mtx mono amp.. its good enough for me.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

You want my interpretation how HQ RCA's are not different. I never said they weren't different. They most definately are different, what I am saying is that they will not make one bit of difference in sound.

The burden of proof doesn't lie on me, it is on you. I never claimed these "MAGIC" wires make a difference in sound. You are the one spouting FALSE info. I Was speaking of speaker wire with the coat hanger. Of course different GAUGE wire makes a difference, but because it has a fancy coating and some slick marketing terms and the name -edit- on it makes it no better than any other wire of the SAME AWG.

From PERSONAL experience I have seen and heard Jensen decks, they are ok for a cheap system. Maybe the decks I have seen were just the exception to the rule, but they have been running for 2+ years. Would I personally run one? No, I have eclipse 8445.

I don't see why you are getting so hostile, I never attacked you in any way, I was simply stating that a fact. The Voodoo marketing and snake oil salesmen want people to believe that HQ wire will make a difference, but the fact is the claims they make will never hold up in a properly run double blind ABX test.

Since you are so adamant about it, go take the Richard Clark Wire Challenge. You can gain an easy $10,000 from it, since you are obviously a Golden ear and can easily hear a difference between high quality RCA's and Radio Shack ones, it should be easy money.

-edit-
Edited out the brand name, because that company does not actualy make these claims.

The difference between high quality and low-quality kits for the average person IS between 8 gauge and 4-gauge. And You have SEEN???? these Jensen Decks? Yes this gives you much greater knowledge and experience to me personally installing them dozens of times and uninstalling them dozens of times.

And RCAs with power wire not runing interference? Hmm I wonder why one of my coworkers ran his power next to his RCA and it caused engine noise, hmm then when I came back and switched it, it went away? I guess thats a fluke, along with properly grounding, I guess that would be horseshit too right? Just use 20 gauge ground right?
I mean hell, its just a rumor that you should not run RCAs and Power wire next to each other, companies are just trying to make you work more when installing them right? You know how much time I would save if I could run RCAs next to power and have no interference?? A shit load, that means more cars can be done in less time, which equals more money for the company as we always have to turn away people from doing their cars....Soo..companies just screw themselves out of money while trying to screw us out of money too....well according to you..

Please just because youve "heard" this stuff or read it on forums does not mean you can throw out experience. I would not say these things unless ive HEARD AND EXPERIENCED THEM WHILE INSTALLING THEM ON DOZENS OF VEHICLES, but I guess since youve heard and seen a few you would know better than I...

I also guess if coatings dont do anything, might as well just tape duck tape around un-coated wire and it will be fine? right? I wonder why companies spend so much money on proper shielding if they could save so much money in R&D by not doing it.


Edit: oh and where is this challenge, I tried looking it up?

 

[snyper1982]

Not to highjack back my own thread from you guys but....How many channels is the stock amp? Are all the speakers powered by it?

Do you have the infinity system? If so It is 6 channel. tweets, door, and rear. If not I believe it is 4.

As for everyone else arguing with me. Believe what you want. Thing about this though. You understand dc is a complete circuit right. So whatever noise is on the positive side is running right back through the chasis. You have no qualms about running your power wire right next to the chasis now do you?

You never said nothing about kits, you said high quality wires. I never said to not properly ground it did I?

You guys are the reason that these myths continue to run wild throughout the industry. You never question the WHY.


Try running your power wires outside the car, with the RCA's etc. grab your RCA's power wires wrap them around each other run them next to each other, whatever. You will be surprised by the results, when no noise is introduced.


http://www.carsound.com/cgi-bin/UBB_CGI/ultimatebb.cgi

Look there for it. I don't have time to look for it right now. I suggest you question some of the things I mentined. If you are willing to learn, you have nothing to lose.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

Alright, I even used the forum YOU GAVE ME and umm guess what I find...

Unbalanced. "An interconnection between audio components in which there are two conductors, signal and ground. The 'unbalanced' aspect of this connection is that, since ground is the reference, each of the two signal leads has a very different (unbalanced) impedance relationship to to the reference. This is of no consequence unless there are noises or hum potentials in the grounding of the interconnected components."

Balanced. "A method of interconnecting audio components using a three-wire cable in which there are two signal wires and one ground wire, all of which may be inside a cylindrical shield that is also grounded. The two signal conductors both have the identical impedances to the common ground terminal, hence the name Balanced. Because of this such interconnections are highly immune to ground-originated noises and hum. It is widely used in professional audio systems which routinely have very long cable runs and very complex interconnections of signal and power grounds."

The benefit is derived from the circuitry that rejects noise not common to both signal lines in a balanced cable.

As to why it's not used...it is almost exclusively in pro-level gear (look on the Behringer, dbxpro, rane, etc sites), for consumer goods my guess is cost/benefit ratio combined with commonality/availability.


Hmm, that says THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN DIFFERNT RCAs....hmm...ps im still looking FOR ANY POST that says ANYTHING ABOUT NO DIFFERENCE!!

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

Oh and another one..... I could go on and on...

Yep, properly designed and built signal cables are exceedingly difficult to do yourself, especially with a simple drill technique. The drill technique works great for power, ground, remote, and some other control functions, but not for signal cables.

There are several factors that determine the noise rejection abilities of a twisted pair cable, including the number of twists per inch, the proximity of the two conductors, the distance of the cables from the potential noise producing source, etc.

18 gauge wire is way too large for twisted pair signal cables to be most effective. The conductors themselves are large diameter, and the insulation typically used on 18 gauge wire is too thick, both of which result in the distance between the centers of the conductors being far enough apart to create a large loop area between them over the length of the cable, allowing for a greater potential for induced noise. Ideally, the wires should be as small as possible, and the insulation be only thick enough to protect them, allowing the conductors to be as close together as possible. They need to be twisted properly, with the best determined twists per inch consistent along the length of the cable. And, the outside jacket should be thick enough to separate the conductors from the potential noise inducing source as much as possible.

If you don't have a problem with induced noise, then the type of cables really won't matter anyway. Many installations can get away with using home made cables, or even the dreaded coax designs, simply because they do not have a problem with induced noise. But, if your vehicle does have a lot of varying magnetic fields running around on the chassis and in the factory wiring harness, then properly designed twisted pair cables will go a long way towards minimizing audible noise in the system.

Check out some of David and Richard's articles on cables in past issues of Carsound and Automedia, and also some of the other threads on twisted pair cables in the forums.

Besides, good quality twisted pair cables are available at very reasonable prices these days.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

Do you have the infinity system? If so It is 6 channel. tweets, door, and rear. If not I believe it is 4.

As for everyone else arguing with me. Believe what you want. Thing about this though. You understand dc is a complete circuit right. So whatever noise is on the positive side is running right back through the chasis. You have no qualms about running your power wire right next to the chasis now do you?

You never said nothing about kits, you said high quality wires. I never said to not properly ground it did I?

You guys are the reason that these myths continue to run wild throughout the industry. You never question the WHY.


Try running your power wires outside the car, with the RCA's etc. grab your RCA's power wires wrap them around each other run them next to each other, whatever. You will be surprised by the results, when no noise is introduced.


http://www.carsound.com/cgi-bin/UBB_CGI/ultimatebb.cgi

Look there for it. I don't have time to look for it right now. I suggest you question some of the things I mentined. If you are willing to learn, you have nothing to lose.

PS- Your complete wrong. The non-infinity systems came DID not com with an amp under the seat and so therefore, please dont suggest that. Non-infinity were powered by the actual head unit.

 

[snyper1982]

PS- Your complete wrong. The non-infinity systems came DID not com with an amp under the seat and so therefore, please dont suggest that. Non-infinity were powered by the actual head unit.

Reading comprehension isn't your strong point is it?

 

[snyper1982]

Read that....

http://www.carsound.com/UBB/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=022690;p=1#000003


Richard Clark is an electrical engineer and helped make car audio what it is today I will take what he says over you any day. He has said himself that all it will take is one person to pass his amp challenge, or wire challenge to make him a believer.

 

[fr33b1rth]

Read that....

http://www.carsound.com/UBB/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=022690;p=1#000003


Richard Clark is an electrical engineer and helped make car audio what it is today I will take what he says over you any day. He has said himself that all it will take is one person to pass his amp challenge, or wire challenge to make him a believer.

if you don't beleieve that a dc circuit makes a magnetic field read this:
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/electromagnet.htm

so a dc circuit doesn't generate a magnetic field (which in turn generates interference) huh?

how do you explain crosstalk on spark plug wires?

how do they generate dc current? a big magnet spinning inside a coil of wires!

one wire next to another will generate a current, a current moves a voice coil!

for god sakes, how does a voice coil work? it works because the voice coil generates a magnetic field that moves it toward, or away from the magnet on the back.

what does an amp do? it simply intensifies current!

why does Gm shield it's wires going through the firewall into the ECM?

i suppose they do it because they want to waste millions of dollars every year right?

oh, and in that link there is a huge error:

hook the amp to a good speaker---------power them up with jumper cables or large car audio wire to the cars battery and start the car so the alternator is charging and producing lots of noise---------NOW------move the RCA wires as close to the power wires as possible-------wrap the RCA's around the positive wire AND TRY TO MAKE THE SYSTEM NOISY----------you will find to your amazment that it isn't possible..........what does this tell you?????................RC

too bad there has to be amprege running through the jumper cables to generate noise. just laying there they are doing nothing. there has to be something drawing amprege. it's not uncommon for there to be 80amps running through a 4ga power wire with the stereo playing.

smart "electrical" engineer.... sound more like a "BS know it all" engineer

it's a proven fact that if you put a wire next to another wire with current running through it (amprege) that the wire laying next to it will show a voltage across it.

everything here can be learned in 9th grade science.

 

[snyper1982]

if you don't beleieve that a dc circuit makes a magnetic field read this:
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/electromagnet.htm

so a dc circuit doesn't generate a magnetic field (which in turn generates interference) huh?

how do you explain crosstalk on spark plug wires?

how do they generate dc current? a big magnet spinning inside a coil of wires!

one wire next to another will generate a current, a current moves a voice coil!

for god sakes, how does a voice coil work? it works because the voice coil generates a magnetic field that moves it toward, or away from the magnet on the back.

what does an amp do? it simply intensifies current!

why does Gm shield it's wires going through the firewall into the ECM?

i suppose they do it because they want to waste millions of dollars every year right?

oh, and in that link there is a huge error:


too bad there has to be amprege running through the jumper cables to generate noise. just laying there they are doing nothing. there has to be something drawing amprege. it's not uncommon for there to be 80amps running through a 4ga power wire with the stereo playing.

smart "electrical" engineer.... sound more like a "BS know it all" engineer

it's a proven fact that if you put a wire next to another wire with current running through it (amprege) that the wire laying next to it will show a voltage across it.

everything here can be learned in 9th grade science.

Yeahhhhh. Reading comprehnsion isn't your bag either is it? He is saying to hook up the amp outside the car, that is all. He is also assuming that the person readin is smart enought to understand that. Play the system just like you normally would, but you are removing other elememts from the equation, and focusing on the power wire, which is supposed to be the source of the noise.

That man that you claim knows nothing, knows more and has done more for car audio than you will EVER do for it.

Believe it or not. I couldn't care less. You are the one being purposely ignorant. you have the procedure for testing what you claim to be true, so go ahead and test it. What do you have to lose, other than your false beliefs.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

if you don't beleieve that a dc circuit makes a magnetic field read this:
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/electromagnet.htm

so a dc circuit doesn't generate a magnetic field (which in turn generates interference) huh?

how do you explain crosstalk on spark plug wires?

how do they generate dc current? a big magnet spinning inside a coil of wires!

one wire next to another will generate a current, a current moves a voice coil!

for god sakes, how does a voice coil work? it works because the voice coil generates a magnetic field that moves it toward, or away from the magnet on the back.

what does an amp do? it simply intensifies current!

why does Gm shield it's wires going through the firewall into the ECM?

i suppose they do it because they want to waste millions of dollars every year right?

oh, and in that link there is a huge error:


too bad there has to be amprege running through the jumper cables to generate noise. just laying there they are doing nothing. there has to be something drawing amprege. it's not uncommon for there to be 80amps running through a 4ga power wire with the stereo playing.

smart "electrical" engineer.... sound more like a "BS know it all" engineer

it's a proven fact that if you put a wire next to another wire with current running through it (amprege) that the wire laying next to it will show a voltage across it.

everything here can be learned in 9th grade science.

Ive given up, if this guy will beleive a guy on the internet over another guy on the internet (me) which isnt too unbeleivable, then stop trying. I am just content with the fact that I install all these systems, and actually know from real-life situations what works and what doesnt. Hell some godamn "scientists" belived the world was flat, but vikings who actually travelled (experience) knew it was not. So whatever he likes to bleive he can beleive, only when he does it himsel will he realize what happens....I just found it completely ignorant he said he could use a coat-hanger and it wouldnt have any difference.....oh and that he thhought Jensens were decent units (one painfully obvious fact that he had no idea and has never had experience in the industry)

Im done with this thread as I have looked around and followed your links snyper, but they only further prove your point wrong. I dont have time to waste and I sincerely dont want to listen to anymore of "I heard this and I read this"...

 

[snyper1982]

Ive given up, if this guy will beleive a guy on the internet over another guy on the internet (me) which isnt too unbeleivable, then stop trying. I am just content with the fact that I install all these systems, and actually know from real-life situations what works and what doesnt. Hell some godamn "scientists" belived the world was flat, but vikings who actually travelled (experience) knew it was not. So whatever he likes to bleive he can beleive, only when he does it himsel will he realize what happens....I just found it completely ignorant he said he could use a coat-hanger and it wouldnt have any difference.....oh and that he thhought Jensens were decent units (one painfully obvious fact that he had no idea and has never had experience in the industry)

Im done with this thread as I have looked around and followed your links snyper, but they only further prove your point wrong. I dont have time to waste and I sincerely dont want to listen to anymore of "I heard this and I read this"...

What are you talking about? You obviously didn't read anything or you would have come to the same conclusion... I know from xperience it doesnt hurt, because I have ran my RCA's right next to the power wire and got no noise... So believe what you want, stay willfuly ignorant, doesn't affect me in the slightest. Just because I don't have TONS of experience with one certain brand of deck, does not mean that I have no experience in the industry. Like I said, I helped my friend instal on in his car and his wifes car. They have been running good for 2+ years. I said maybe those were the exception. Sorry if they are terrible decks. I was just relating first hand experience.

You believe all of this stuff you claim without actually questioning it or testing it. How hard would it actually be to conduct a double bling test with super expensive speaker wire and a coat hanger? Or to hook up the system oputside the car, and wrap you powere wire around the RCA's? Not very hard at all. You are just unwilling to learn, and choosing to stay willfully ignorant. I am sorry you feel that way, because I was only trying to help.

 

[fr33b1rth]

Yeahhhhh. Reading comprehnsion isn't your bag either is it? He is saying to hook up the amp outside the car, that is all. He is also assuming that the person readin is smart enought to understand that. Play the system just like you normally would, but you are removing other elememts from the equation, and focusing on the power wire, which is supposed to be the source of the noise.

That man that you claim knows nothing, knows more and has done more for car audio than you will EVER do for it.

Believe it or not. I couldn't care less. You are the one being purposely ignorant. you have the procedure for testing what you claim to be true, so go ahead and test it. What do you have to lose, other than your false beliefs.

only problem with that is there is still only 5-15amps running through the wire, i'm sure that it won't affect it at that level, and from personal experience it won't, but start drawing big power, and it will. i've installed RCA's right next to my power wire before, and it sounded just fine. the power wire was 8ga, and i was using an amp that drew 25a at most. now in a system that i installed just today, less than an hour ago, when you would roll down the window, you could hear a slight buzz in the tweeter on the drivers side door. the tweeter responds to about 20khz, and little did i know the tweeter wire was wraped around the electric motor's wire. moved it away from the wire, and bam, no more sound.

generally running RCA's next to a power wire doesn't make any difference at all, because they are low level, high impedence. now run speaker wire next to the power wire (high level, low impedance) and they will be more likly to pick up noise.

 

[snyper1982]

When exactly did I suggest running your speaker wire next to any power wires? I said RCA's.... I did say one speaker wire won't sound better than another. I also said running your RCA's next to your power wire will not make a difference.

 

[PSId_OFF TSI]

And to the guy that likes Sony, they are nowhere as near as bad as jensen, but do not have near the quality of others such as Alpine, Eclipse and Clarion.

sorry not to get off subject, I've just been reading that you praise alpine in a couple of your posts... from what I was told by a couple of friends who are installers at reputable shops, alpine head units aren't anywhere near the quality of Eclipse/clarion... Eclipse/clarion make nice decks, but as far as alpine... the pre outs arent 5 or 8v... and overall quality has depreciated as years have progressed with the alpine brand name cd decks... I am nowhere near an audio expert... My old setup was with an alpine deck and worked fine... as far as decks with 5v/6v/8v preouts such as Kenwood/Panasonic/Clarion/Eclipse and Premier (pioneer...junk (which their preouts are rated peak).... pretty much anything best buy sells is garbage... to the keen ear, but not everyone is a car audio guru and people buy it because it gets the job done...

I personally am in the market as well for a set-up... I like diamond audio, eclipse, mtx(xtant), clarion... not really sure what im gonna do....