AUDIO: 2 front component+1sub vs. 2 front component+2 rear coaxial+1sub

[aodioxp]

Hi , I am deciding which sound system to put in my 2g eclipse.
with the same budget, I can go with JBL p660c front+ GTO 928 rear + kicker 700.5 5 channel amp.
Or i can go wth JBL ms-62c front + no rear + kicker 450.2 +kicker 300.1 for sub. because some say the rear speakers just mess up the imaging?
Sub-wise probably go with JL 10w1v2 because of the shallow mount feature.
Just want clear sound, not too loud not too punching. Rarely have rear passengers so I really do not need the rear speakers, right?
Please tell me what you think about these two type of systems, any suggestions~~

 

[genegoesfast]

I don't personally care for rear speakers. I generally want my soundstage to come from in front of me as far forward as possible. If you only wanted to run a single amp you could choose a 4 channel option and bridge channels 3&4 for the sub. The even better option might be to continue forward with the 5 channel amp and bridge 2 channels l and 2 channels r and the single for the sub. The more power the better it'll sound.

 

[aodioxp]

I don't personally care for rear speakers. I generally want my soundstage to come from in front of me as far forward as possible. If you only wanted to run a single amp you could choose a 4 channel option and bridge channels 3&4 for the sub. The even better option might be to continue forward with the 5 channel amp and bridge 2 channels l and 2 channels r and the single for the sub. The more power the better it'll sound.

Bridge? I did not know that~Thanks a lot~ Since the sub is low-end and I do not wish to spend too much on subs, bridging 2 of 4 channel to power sub is not a good idea. Probably just go with 5 channel 700.1 to feed the front component set~If so, Is it a dumb thing still power the rear ones with HU?

 

[genegoesfast]

I'm confused why you're saying bridging 2 channels of a 4 channel amp would be a bad idea. It's the more cost effective option and could work perfectly depending on power ratings of the sub and amp. Yes you could still power the rear speakers from the head unit.

 

[97GSTwa]

I would go with the 5 channel amp and power all the front and rear speakers then save and buy a subwoofer later. Right now in my 2g I just have 2 way 6.5 in front and 2 way 6x9 in back. They are running off the head unit but don't sound great.

 

[aodioxp]

I'm confused why you're saying bridging 2 channels of a 4 channel amp would be a bad idea. It's the more cost effective option and could work perfectly depending on power ratings of the sub and amp. Yes you could still power the rear speakers from the head unit.

genegoesfast, Sorry about my poor language~I mean, the shallow mount subwoofer I can afford won't be able to handle the bridged 1 channel power from the 4 channel amp. I want some quality from the components and some adequate bass. So 5 channel with Class A/B for component and Class D for sub seem to be ideal for me. I saw people saying bridging will shorten the amp's life, is that true? Does bridging have other drawbacks?
I just cannot find a 3-channel amp with Class A/B for component and Class D for sub.

 

[noavgjoe]

I would go with JBL p660c front+ GTO 928 rear + kicker 700.5 5 channel amp and add a sub later. Imaging to me is important as well as soundstage but I also feel that rear-fill is important too. I use my fader to pull the image forward but no so much that all I hear is bass coming from the back.

 

[genegoesfast]

genegoesfast, Sorry about my poor language~I mean, the shallow mount subwoofer I can afford won't be able to handle the bridged 1 channel power from the 4 channel amp.

This is where you're confused. There's really no such thing as too much power. Plus you'd only be combining the power of 2 channels to 1. Really the only drawback to bridging an amplifier is that it moves the thd spec one decimal point to the left, basically by a factor of ten, which you would never hear on a sub. Bridging the amplifier will not effect its life span.

 

[aodioxp]

This is where you're confused. There's really no such thing as too much power. Plus you'd only be combining the power of 2 channels to 1. Really the only drawback to bridging and amplifier is that it moves the thd spec one decimal point to the left, basically by a factor of ten, which you would never hear on a sub. Bridging the amplifier will no effect its life span.

Alright, I am sold on 4 channels , thanks genegoesfast~

 

[dewoof01]

I would reconsider the rear speakers. I am at that point with mine right now. I was debating, but over the last few weeks i have come back to reason. Unless you are carrying people in the rear that want to hear the music there is really no reason to have rear speakers when you have a sub in the rear. All it will do is cause issues unless you have the rear speakers delayed and even then you can still have sound stage issues. If you are wanting to spend $200 on front components and $100 on rear coaxials for example you will be MUCH happier with $300 on the fronts and alot more power running to those than you would with four channels going to front and rear and paying for front and rear speakers. Also have you looked at these subs? i am a HugE JL w3 fan but will be putting 3 of these in my current build as they have great reviews and the excursion on them is amazing. WoofersEtc.com - CTX104 - Image Dynamics 10" CTX 4 Ohm Subwoofer

 

[GSLENK]

I have had multiple opportunities to add rear speakers. I never did. And I dont regret it. Maybe at the expense of my rear seat passengers, but I would never know, besides... my car is for me...

From another perspective.... The sound stage should be in front of you. that is how the music is generally recorded to be listened to. so build the front sound stage. The only (and very significant, besides space confines) reason why bass is acceptable behind you is that low frequencies are hard to blindly identify location compared to the rest of the audible spectrum.

 

[mik3ripp3r]

Im so confused by this thread..... just run your components off your head unit....80 watts per channel is plenty 50 is sufficient...... save the serious power draw for the sub(s) and let them run off the "sub" or "aux" output on your deck. if you are gonna go with more than one amp you should probably get a capacitor at least 1.5 farad (they are cheap) to save your alternator and battery from goin to shyt! I have never heard of a 5 channel amp (but then again I havent looked)....that sounds like somethin for a center channel set up! running subs and mids and tweeters on the same channel is nothin but bad news i can quarantee you that.... unless you want to go around and start getting into crossover connections... which I dont even think they make anymore?? ... also....if you get excited about "bridging" things you just might want to make sure your ohm's between your bridged amp and your sub match up.......or you will end up with a whole lotta crap (if anything) comin out your subs... keep it simple.....make sure you are running decent gauge power wire directly off your battery with a fuse block and keep your power wire running as far away from of your rca's as you can. Keep your ground to your amp as short as possible and grounded to the frame.... and thats about it..... be careful with going Bridge crazy though....Ive seen more than one person buy a setup an realize that they did it all wrong because they didnt do their homework.

 

[dewoof01]

Im so confused by this thread..... just run your components off your head unit....80 watts per channel is plenty 50 is sufficient...... save the serious power draw for the sub(s) and let them run off the "sub" or "aux" output on your deck. if you are gonna go with more than one amp you should probably get a capacitor at least 1.5 farad (they are cheap) to save your alternator and battery from goin to shyt! I have never heard of a 5 channel amp (but then again I havent looked)....that sounds like somethin for a center channel set up! running subs and mids and tweeters on the same channel is nothin but bad news i can quarantee you that.... unless you want to go around and start getting into crossover connections... which I dont even think they make anymore?? ... also....if you get excited about "bridging" things you just might want to make sure your ohm's between your bridged amp and your sub match up.......or you will end up with a whole lotta crap (if anything) comin out your subs... keep it simple.....make sure you are running decent gauge power wire directly off your battery with a fuse block and keep your power wire running as far away from of your rca's as you can. Keep your ground to your amp as short as possible and grounded to the frame.... and thats about it..... be careful with going Bridge crazy though....Ive seen more than one person buy a setup an realize that they did it all wrong because they didnt do their homework.

Run components off the head unit? Seriously? Why get components? Capacitor? Seriously? If you think you "need" a capacitor, there are other issues. Your battery is WAY larger than a capacitor so if your lights are dimming or amps are cutting due to too much draw a capacitor is not going to solve the problem. The problem is too thin gauge of wire, need of a big 3 upgrade, or a HO alternator.

You haven't heard of a 5 channel amp?

They don't make crossovers anymore? What comes in the box with the components?

Now to respond to the OP. You COULD go with a 4 channel and bridge the two "rear" channel for the sub, and then just run the fronts off of the other two channels of the amp. I would however recommend going with a 2 channel amp for the fronts and a mono or 2 channel for the sub. That kicker 450.2 doesn't seem like the best amp for the speakers. Your speakers can handle 80-90w RMS @ 4 ohms from what I am seeing. (We are talking about the JBL components right now). I would personally go with the Rockford P400.2 (Rockford Fosgate P400-2 2 Channel Amplifiers at Onlinecarstereo.com) Its cheaper and in all honesty I've never put Kicker anything and sound quality in the same arena but thats my ears not yours.
Its hard to recommend a sub amp for you without knowing a sub. But I am running a w1 in my truck right now with a Rockford P300.1 and it is excellent.

Please just know that with audio the cleanest power is better than dirty. Disregard peak wattage, and only look at RMS wattage, as well as matching the power output of the amp with the ohms of the speaker. A amp may say 300watts @ 2 ohms but if you have one 4 ohm sub you won't get the 300 watts to it usually only half of that. Hope that helps.

 

[jrs187]

As for buying a 4 channel amp to run your front speakers off of and also running you subwoofer is a big no no. You will be running vocals out of your subwoofer that is not ment to be there. Sure it has a crossover built into it, but if you mess with that crossover then your fronts will sound like crap. I have been doing stereos for 10+ years I have done more stupid things trying to get by cheap. After awhile you realize where you screwed up. Go with the 5 channel it has 4 channels for fronts and rears +subwoofer. you will be alot happier. Other wise you can buy a decent 2 channel amp for the comp's and a mono amp for the woofer. I also dont recommend the kicker products do to there dirty power that they send to speakers and destroy them after long periods of time. I sell stereo equipment and most of the big name brands that were top dogs 20 years ago are junk now. Its just everyone knows that brand and see's other people with it so they buy it not knowing any better. I am putting 6.5 comps up front plus 2.5 tweeters in the dash and since im shaving weight im installing 6.5 midbass drivers where the rear speakers used to be.

 

[aodioxp]

R

Now to respond to the OP. You COULD go with a 4 channel and bridge the two "rear" channel for the sub, and then just run the fronts off of the other two channels of the amp. I would however recommend going with a 2 channel amp for the fronts and a mono or 2 channel for the sub. That kicker 450.2 doesn't seem like the best amp for the speakers. Your speakers can handle 80-90w RMS @ 4 ohms from what I am seeing. (We are talking about the JBL components right now). I would personally go with the Rockford P400.2 (Rockford Fosgate P400-2 2 Channel Amplifiers at Onlinecarstereo.com) Its cheaper and in all honesty I've never put Kicker anything and sound quality in the same arena but thats my ears not yours.
Its hard to recommend a sub amp for you without knowing a sub. But I am running a w1 in my truck right now with a Rockford P300.1 and it is excellent.

Please just know that with audio the cleanest power is better than dirty. Disregard peak wattage, and only look at RMS wattage, as well as matching the power output of the amp with the ohms of the speaker. A amp may say 300watts @ 2 ohms but if you have one 4 ohm sub you won't get the 300 watts to it usually only half of that. Hope that helps.

Ah I see. It seems you guys all agree that kicker does not make "clean" amp anymore. I am looking at R400.4. I have no intent to get a HO alternator and better battery....Can I run two amps , for example, P400.2+P300.1 off the factory alternator safely? In addtion, P400.2 seem little overkill for JBL MS-62 which is rated @ 80w rms /side, P400.2 puts 100 rms/side @4 oms.
Subwoofer wise, I am looking at JL 10w3v3-4 if I saved up enough....Or the 10w1v2 slim version for a stealth look in the hatch. A lot positive reviews on the JL subs. I have a loud exhaust(from previous owner) and need something to cover it~
Thanks a ton!

As for buying a 4 channel amp to run your front speakers off of and also running you subwoofer is a big no no. You will be running vocals out of your subwoofer that is not ment to be there. Sure it has a crossover built into it, but if you mess with that crossover then your fronts will sound like crap. I have been doing stereos for 10+ years I have done more stupid things trying to get by cheap. After awhile you realize where you screwed up. Go with the 5 channel it has 4 channels for fronts and rears +subwoofer. you will be alot happier. Other wise you can buy a decent 2 channel amp for the comp's and a mono amp for the woofer. I also dont recommend the kicker products do to there dirty power that they send to speakers and destroy them after long periods of time. I sell stereo equipment and most of the big name brands that were top dogs 20 years ago are junk now. Its just everyone knows that brand and see's other people with it so they buy it not knowing any better. I am putting 6.5 comps up front plus 2.5 tweeters in the dash and since im shaving weight im installing 6.5 midbass drivers where the rear speakers used to be.

Ouch... I was gonna go with Rockford R400.4D 4 channel but now I see your reply. So if I am looking for clarity or clean sound from the component+sub system, I should run 2 channel + mono channel for the best result? I do not want to stress my battery and alternator and find place to mount 2 amps( not a fan of mounting amp at the back of back seats.
If I go with JBL ms-62 @80w rms/side and JL10w1v2/JL10w3v3, which amp do you recommend... Class D of course...Thanks a lot~

 

[mik3ripp3r]

Run components off the head unit? Seriously? Why get components? Capacitor? Seriously? If you think you "need" a capacitor, there are other issues. Your battery is WAY larger than a capacitor so if your lights are dimming or amps are cutting due to too much draw a capacitor is not going to solve the problem. The problem is too thin gauge of wire, need of a big 3 upgrade, or a HO alternator.

You haven't heard of a 5 channel amp?

They don't make crossovers anymore? What comes in the box with the components?

well arent you just the know everything guy!? Dont think my ish dont hit!

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You shut the hell up now didnt ya? MEMPHIS BABY!

 

[jrs187]

Ditch the useless farad cap. they do nothing for you. You want your headlights to stop dimming? Buy better amps that arent full of dirty power or run a ground wire from your amp all the way to your battery. You could also buy a ho alt so you can ditch the 75 amp one your car came with.

 

[dewoof01]

well arent you just the know everything guy!? Dont think my ish dont hit!

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You shut the hell up now didnt ya? MEMPHIS BABY!

I am sure your "ish hits" I just could care less. I'm sure that sounds really good with 2 subs all the way up and you components running off a crappy deck's power. Anyways I'm not interested in arguing with you, rather I was trying to show the OP the misinformation you had in your post and that he should not listen to your "tips". I'm happy you have alot of bass, good for you.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

well arent you just the know everything guy!? Dont think my ish dont hit!

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You shut the hell up now didnt ya? MEMPHIS BABY!

Your contributions are less than adequate. Please educate yourself further on the topic of discussion before you resume.

Flashing around a bunch of very very bad setup pictures does not make any of the advice you posted correct.

 

[DieSolo]

I disagree with taking the rear speakers out. In some cars it matters less, but in this case I feel like they really add to the sound. They add depth and perception. Also, your legs actually block a lot of the sound coming from the front door speakers (don't believe, me get a friend to sit in the passenger side and lift and lower their legs between the dash and floor). As for set-ups, I always go components in the front and good two or three ways in the back. 4 channel amplifier in the front for your hi's and mid's; and (separate) class D mono to the sub.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

I disagree with taking the rear speakers out. In some cars it matters less, but in this case I feel like they really add to the sound. They add depth and perception. Also, your legs actually block a lot of the sound coming from the front door speakers (don't believe, me get a friend to sit in the passenger side and lift and lower their legs between the dash and floor). As for set-ups, I always go components in the front and good two or three ways in the back. 4 channel amplifier in the front for your hi's and mid's; and (separate) class D mono to the sub.

I'm constantly adjusting my rear fill. It really depends on the kind of sound you like. I completely agree, spend your money up front and keep your passengers off the doors!

 

[dewoof01]

I'm constantly adjusting my rear fill. It really depends on the kind of sound you like. I completely agree, spend your money up front and keep your passengers off the doors!

You are 100% correct. If you were to spend $200 on front components and $100-150 on rear coaxials you would be way happier with $350 front components and no rear fill.

To the OP sorry i never responded to your questions I was too busy responding to big bass boy. I would get a 4 channel amp and bridge it to the front speakers or a 2 channel for the fronts. Then get a 2 channel or mono block for the sub. As has been said many times it is better to have seperate for both or a 5 channel.