Attempting the impossible.

[5150DSM]

First, I don't know if this would be considered the correct forum so, Mods please feel free to move this at your discretion.

I recently crashed my 1G Talon after putting only 200 miles on my new race motor. The chassis is a total loss but the motor and tranny are just fine. My first thought was to pick up another AWD shell and just swap everything over. Unfortunately, Hawaii is small and DSM availability is extremely limited, further if I were to ship something in from the mainland it automatically adds another $1000-$1500 to the price, making that an un-feasible option. My next thought was to grab this 94' Talon DL for $500.00 and doing a major conversion but the guy couldn't get the correct title and left me hanging for over a month. Lucky for me it turns out. The 3rd option presented itself when my friend returned from deployment and offered my a lark of a deal... 1995 Talon TSi (FWD), perfect body, nice interior, running motor and a bad auto tranny for $500.00, of course I grabbed it.

Now, I have read and read about 6 bolt swaps and AWD conversions and auto to manual conversions and I think I understand what I'm up against so I made a decision. I am going to attempt to swap over my 1G motor and AWD drivetrain into the 2G FWD shell. Most of what I have read says this is impossible and the reasons stated are pretty clear as to why...

If you want to tell me this is impossible and that I'm wasting my time/effort/money, feel free, though I don't see any reason to clutter the post with repetitions of what I've already admitted. If you have any constructive information; theories, ideas or general advice, I would more than welcome any cogent thoughts.

The project started today by beginning to strip the 1G. I will periodically update this thread as the effort progresses and for those of you who are interested I will carefully catalogue the process. Thanks in advance for any and all responses, I know there will be negativity but hopefully I can use it for motivation. Thanks to dsmtuners for the space and the opportunity to use the database to attempt something new.
Aloha

 

[numlock666]

anything is possible with fabrication skills. I'd like to see this done. If it goes well I'll be test subject #2. Theres and over abundance of 1G AWD at the yard and I hate my tire spin ^_^. One thing to note thats going to be hard is that the 1G tranny only has 1 motormount on it as to the 2G has 3. Also dont know about the 1G rear end.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

good luck with this man, I wanna see it also, as I happen to have a the same deal that I could make happen

 

[talon187]

the wheel base is diffrent on a 2g awd then a 1g awd....your going to have a porblem with that the 1g tranny in the 2g should be able to be done with some mods or anothe option is geting a 2g tranny case and puting the 1g guts into its ben done before good luck

 

[5150DSM]

There is going to be a shitload of fabrication to mate up the tranny and the rear-end, my largest concern right now is the driveshaft. I'm pretty sure we can make the necessary mounts and adapters but the DS length and angle are iffy, might need a custom job. On the other side, we did manage to cram a RB25DET into a 240 recently so hopefully that experience will give us some valuable insight.
Thanks for the support!
Aloha

 

[eclipsh]

You know, the rear end in a 1g awd isn't anything special. If you have to do some fabricating anyway you might as well just fab up a better rear end and skip those obnoxious trailing arms we have. Or find a 2g rear end somewhere.

 

[1GawdJunkie]

Wow, that is all I can say. If it were me, my lazy ass would have spent the extra $1500 to have a shell shipped over. Best of luck with the build.

 

[5150DSM]

You know, the rear end in a 1g awd isn't anything special. If you have to do some fabricating anyway you might as well just fab up a better rear end and skip those obnoxious trailing arms we have. Or find a 2g rear end somewhere.

My buddy just built a custom rear suspension set-up for his 67 Volvo. (2.3l RWD, 500+hp) He drives road-course, auto-X and now wants to drift the fu(ker. Anyway, I'll be utilizing his expertise to come up with the best solution for mounting and increasing the adjustability of my rear suspension. I will use 1G, 2G or whatever combination of the two allows for the best/safest positioning.

We are really going to start yanking things apart this weekend and I'll try to get some side by side pics for comparison. Thanks everyone for chiming in.

Aloha.

 

[5150DSM]

Started stripping the 1G today...
It turns out the damage was worse than I thought. The passenger side control arm has actually torn away from the rest of the sub-frame assembly. The sheet metal is torn in half for roughly 6" up towards the firewall and it appears the front cross-member has bent as well.
Good news is the rear suspension is completely intact. The motor, tranny and intercooler are all OK. It looks as though all the parts I need except the front c-member are going to be swappable so we start measuring and designing mounts tomorrow. In the mean time I guess I'll start looking for a FWD tranny so I have something to drive while we get our shit together; I've been on a moped for the last month and I'm about to shoot something.(or someone)
Updates to follow.
Aloha

 

[talon187]

if you know what your doing you can crack open the awd and add a part i forget whats it called ill look later and if you install it it makes the awd tranny fwd instead of buying another

 

[5150DSM]

if you know what your doing you can crack open the awd and add a part i forget whats it called ill look later and if you install it it makes the awd tranny fwd instead of buying another

VCE-Viscous coupling eliminator.
I would still have a 1G case and the associated mounting problems. Thanks for the thought, it might be an option as an "in-between"; as in in-between the time I work out the engine/tranny mounting and the rear suspension, etc...
Thanks again.
Aloha

 

[5150DSM]

A question.
I plan to use a 1G tranny for this bulid. If I wanted to retain the 2G front hubs, could I just pop the outboard CV's from the respective axles and switch them around, leaving me with 1G inboards for the tranny and 2G outboards for the hubs? Also, seeing as I don't have a drive-shaft from a 2G for comparison. Is the 2G AWD drive-shaft the same length as the one from the 1G's?
Thanks in advance for any help you guys can offer.
Aloha

 

[5150DSM]

Been busy so progress has been slow.
We dropped the transfer case, exhaust and driveshaft, also popped the rear suspension. It looks like a one piece driveshaft would make the whole process a lot easier so I'm going to look into the pricing and availability. The mounting studs for the dampers are at differing heights and I don't know if I want to take the chance of being off, as even a couple of degrees could be dangerous.
The 1G gas tank is simply not going to work, the filler necks are on opposite sides and I don't relish the idea of trying to weld in a relocation.
Still wondering about swapping out the outboard axle cups to keep the 2G front hubs, if anyone has an idea. I'll update more as we make progress and get closer to making the mounts.
Aloha

 

[5150DSM]

Some progress.
The entire rear sub-frame assembly is out. We just pulled everything in one piece to gauge the feasability of swapping the whole thing over. It was just 4 studs holding the assembly in, 2 bolt in and 2 weld in; so we will probably just swap the studs over and utilize the entire piece. Hopefully the caster angle won't be completely fu(ked.
We should be done stripping the 1G sometime in the next couple of weeks, then the real work begins. I am taking pictures and carefully documenting all the ins and outs so when we finish and providing we are succesful, I can produce a decent tech article for other people to follow.
Thanks for the space, feel free to discuss.
Aloha

 

[5150DSM]

Long time, I know.
The rainy season in Hawaii can be brutal, especially when you have an outdoor work area. We have not had a single clear day in about 6 weeks so our progress had been limited, until this past week.
As of now, the 1G is completely stripped. I have a guy coming to haul off the carcass tomorrow and the 2G will be towed up next week. I have used my time well however; I mapped out all the mounting points and determined where we will need to manipulate things and where things will bolt up. The only thing that concerns me at this point is the pedal assembly, I have serious doubts about the 1G pedals going into the 2G. We'll see.
I have pics but they are way too big so I will try to re-size them and upload with the next post.
Please feel free to discuss or ask any questions.
Aloha

 

[BUCK]

to DREAM... the IMPOSSIBLE dream - to fight... the UNBEATABLE foe - - to RUN where the brave never goeth - this is my QUEST... WTF- to follow that STAR - no matter HOW foolish... - no matter how FAR ............

- yadda yadda...

 

[5150DSM]

I am not Don Quixote.

One way or the other I will get this done...

Maybe I am Don Quixote.

Where's Sancho, dammit?

 

[Afroclipse]

why are you changing the pedal assembly?

 

[5150DSM]

why are you changing the pedal assembly?

Because the 2G everything is going into is an automatic right now. 5150 does not like auto trannies.
That's part of why all the fabrication is required.

 

[Afroclipse]

You already said that dsm are rare there but all you need is a cluth pedal and brake pedal which if you want you can cut the auto, but if its that bad i'll try and find you some pedals this coming week because i'm going shopping for parts at the junkyards.