Anyone else running no pcv?

[MyBeatGSX]

I was a little disturbed when I took it for the first drive with no PCV (RRE catch can hooked up taboo style). Whatever the catch can is venting it smells like pure gas. With the heater on fresh air it even gets sucked inside and blown in my face.

Is it normal to have that much blow by at idle? Does anyone else have enough to smell inside the car? Its cold enough outside that I can actually see the smoke slowly rising from the breather while my car is parked. The blow by can't be that bad. Because I had that catch can hooked up to just the breather for like 3 months and it didn't collect a drop of oil.

Aside from that, the car runs better...

 

[My96AWD]

Mine is doing the exact same thing. It gets really annoying when your smoking out of the hood and your g/f says your car smells. heh. I think I'm going to put the pcv back in.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Well the warm weather is here and my windows are down, so I'm not getting high off the fumes anymore. I think I'll leave it out, the car does run so much better. I need to find a better place to mount the can though.

Where is yours mounted?

 

[My96AWD]

I have it right next to the battery. I have the rre style.

 

[eclipsegsx1736]

I have the exact symptoms as you, but it's all worth it. The PCV valve is one of the worst inventions known to mankind. Okay, it's not that bad, but it does cause nothing but problems.

 

[eclipse98gs-t]

The PCV valve is one of the worst inventions known to mankind. Okay, it's not that bad, but it does cause nothing but problems.

Ok.
I want to install a RRE catch can but question is: what about ventilation at low rpm???
Is this danger to engine?
Somebody said "vacuum" helps to rings to seal better. Is this true?
I want to do this because my oil dip stick go out sometimes.
BTW I have a fully built motor .
Thanks for solving my doubt

 

[MyBeatGSX]

We beat this to DEATH in about 5 other topics. So I'll sum it all up for you and hopefully prevent someone getting it all going again.... I love this new animation..

PCV only works for ring seal when you need it least, idle and light throttle cruise. Any other time its not doing any good, or is actually hurting (under boost). I'm glad eclipsegsx1736 backed me up on the PCV being a peice of crap. I've said it a million times before and I'll probably have to say it a million more, the PCV is FOR EMISSIONS ONLY. Whether people will finally realize this or not is questionable. I had a lengthy discussion with one of RRE's techs about this, and he agreed with me. No PCV is better for the motor, whether it be street driven or a race car makes no difference.

While you're at it, get rid of your EGR too. Then seafoam your motor and you'll never have to worry about it getting filled with crap anymore. This is what I did and my engine is running excellent (knock on wood )

On a side note... they sell DSM's in south america?

 

[ilikespeeding]

We beat this to DEATH in about 5 other topics. So I'll sum it all up for you and hopefully prevent someone getting it all going again.... I love this new animation..

PCV only works for ring seal when you need it least, idle and light throttle cruise. Any other time its not doing any good, or is actually hurting (under boost). I'm glad eclipsegsx1736 backed me up on the PCV being a peice of crap. I've said it a million times before and I'll probably have to say it a million more, the PCV is FOR EMISSIONS ONLY. Whether people will finally realize this or not is questionable. I had a lengthy discussion with one of RRE's techs about this, and he agreed with me. No PCV is better for the motor, whether it be street driven or a race car makes no difference.

While you're at it, get rid of your EGR too. Then seafoam your motor and you'll never have to worry about it getting filled with crap anymore. This is what I did and my engine is running excellent (knock on wood )

On a side note... they sell DSM's in south america?

Im guessing you state has no emissions laws

 

[project_tsi]

I don't run any PVC system, or a catchcan for that matter. I ran hoses under the car far enough not to get any fumes.

 

[hiimt0ny]

The PCV effectively and simplistically takes out unwanted, harmful blow-by in your crank case and removes it via vacuum in the intake manifold. This feature is not in function under WOT. In fact once the intake manifold reaches 1psi, it is theoretically closed and not in use.

Now, another misconception is that the PCV intake tube is really an exit tube. If you have oil and air blowing out the PCV intake tube on the side of your valve cover, you have motor problems. In most cases it's just a tired and worn out motor but this isn't something that is supposed to happen. The PCV intake is designed to suck in fresh air when the PCV opens and draws in the gases which had previously slipped past the rings. Therefore it would probably be better to just leave the pcv how it was....
http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224901

 

[oldman]

pcv isn't for emmisions, it is for crankcase ventilation. There are two main issues when it comes to ventilating your crankcase, pressure and fuel mixture. When disabled and routed to a catchcan Taboo style, the following will happen.

1. You are changing your vacuum system as well as air fuel mixture because the pcv system (system includes both pcv and breather routed in stock location) is already accounted for in the stock fuel feedback system.

2. Venting Taboo/RRE style will only address the pressure part (not always) in your crankcase and does nothing in swapping out dirty fuel mixture quickly enough to prvent settlement into your oil. Under vacuum, the pcv vavle is suppose to relef pressure as well as draw out fuel vapor and replace with fresh and METERED air (remember #1) drawn in through the breather side connected to the intake pipe, this is why people see smoke and smell heavy fuel out of the catch can after hard driving when venting.

It's your car and you can do what you wish but at least know what you're getting yourself into, I don't see how disabling the pcv will make your car run better unless the pcv is leaking pressure into the crankcase and the solution should be replacing it with another OEM piece. If the Taboo route is the route you choose to take, at least change your oil more often than regularly scheduled.

Oh yet...

 

[erebusknight]

watch out for inspections if you ever sell your car or whatever. Ive heard of people not passing the vehicle for one low tire, squeky brakes, and the PCV was non existent. Mabye they just thought it was PCV but something else. something to look at for inspection time though

 

[MyBeatGSX]

The PCV IS for emissions. I wish I could find the article that was posted up on turbosaturns.net, it was taken from GM's own documentation, I'll repeat the jist of what was said.

First off, crank case ventilation can be accomplished with a breather filter, its as easy as that. It will let blow by VENT out of the crank case. The problem is that it will vent into the atmosphere, and uncle sam doesn't like that. Hence the PCV. It sucks all that blow by gas back into the engine to be reburned and catalyzed (sp?).

If the PCV was for crank case ventilation, it would be a pretty poorly made and working peice. It supposed to be closed at high vacuum (idle) to prevent degrading the idle quality, and its closed at very low vacuum (WOT) in order to prevent mixture contamination (or pressurizing the crank case in a F/I car). That leaves it open and working only during light throttle cruise. So how people say its for ring seal, ventilation, etc is beyond me. It can be eliminated with no bad effects and is actually benefitial to not have oily air and blow by crap contaminating the mixture and dirtying your intake manifold, injectors nozzles, valves, combustion chamers, plugs, etc. Its SOLE purpose is CONTROLLED ventilation of the crank case for emissions. No other reason. I don't care what anyone here has always believed or what they were told. We were given this information from a GM engineer over on the Saturn board a few years ago after going through never ending debates such as we've been doing here.

 

[oldman]

Calm down, it's just a technical discussion.

Before you start ripping on anyone who disagrees with you, do a google on "pcv". Here's a good read. http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h63.pdf

 

[Imh0TeP]

hi, i just read all the posts, im not sure with is the best and safe way to setup a catch can,

can be done in many ways as i read, the issue is... do not get oil on intake and if you go to the track dont drop the oil to the track. wewll the catch cans i can found around to buy just have 2 inlets. some ones with breather and draing plug. i make some graphics to help understand it

Which is the corect way to doit? making a oil catch can with 3 inlets? or can be done with a T one one of the hoses?

On our engines the stock setup is this one.

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A correct setup for PCV and catch Can is this one right,

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but what we do with the 3rd line?

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Or can be done a T on this hose?

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Or simply eliminate the PCV and can be ok for drag, dary drive Street, and no Worries about. ??

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[oldman]

but what we do with the 3rd line?

2nd catch can then reroute back to the intake pipe.

 

[Drifter27_04]

Has anyone tried running a 2 pcv setup?

The oringinal pcv out the back of the valve cover and than another inline pcv to the intake.

I also thought of "t"ing off to my catch can as one of "Imh0TeP" drawings shows.

 

[oldman]

I give up.

 

[crazyboost]

The way I am going to have mine (in a week) is run tubing from where the pcv used to be ===> catch can ====> one way check valve ====> slash cut tube in the exhaust right before my muffler. This way will give me some decent vacuum in the crankcase and i can eliminate the possibility of a boost leak from my pcv and also use the extra port (old pcv port) on the intake manifold for my mbc. Because oldman says though shall not tap into the bov line for a manual boost controller, which is what I am doing right now

 

[MyBeatGSX]

I give up.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

I don't care whether you and I agree, disagree, somewhat agree, whatever. I'm never posting in another PCV circle jerk again. I've said all I can say in the 500 posts I've made in the these topics. So PLEASE come and punch me right off my desk chair if you see me even browsing one of these topics again.

My conclusion:
SET IT UP HOWEVER MAKES YOU HAPPY!! ... and if your engine happens to blow up, be sure to let us know so we can cross your setup off of our list of the 67,000,000 possible PCV configurations.



But I do have to say. I'm so glad someone finally made some nice pictures and not the barely recognizable crap drawn in MS Paint. Those pictures will live on forever in these forums. You will be famous, dare I say... immortal.

 

[Imh0TeP]

Final setup. I agree with no pcv valvle. if you inspect your car and pass then im near 100% sure that is not heavy modifyed. If is the case leave it stock.

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But I do have to say. I'm so glad someone finally made some nice pictures and not the barely recognizable crap drawn in MS Paint. Those pictures will live on forever in these forums. You will be famous, dare I say... immortal.

Hehe, you welcome,

 

[No_Skillz]

Final setup. I agree with no pcv valvle. if you inspect your car and pass then im near 100% sure that is not heavy modifyed. If is the case leave it stock.

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Hehe, you welcome,

Ok fellas... it basically comes down to the fact that the factory setup is the best route possible. You can install inline unvented catchcans to stop the oil from distributing itself throughout the system.

In the image draw here, your crankcase has no circulation (please make a distinction between circulation and ventilation or you will be confused). Without circulation, gas will seep between your rings and mix with your oil. You will notice this when changing oil and it will smell like gas and have a different consistency (which also cuts down on it's ability to protect the engine).

Instead of mindlessly debating any PCV setup, go ahead and draw whatever route you think has an advantage over stock, and I will prove otherwise.

 

[talnteddriver29]

In the image draw here, your crankcase has no circulation (please make a distinction between circulation and ventilation or you will be confused). Without circulation, gas will seep between your rings and mix with your oil. .

Solid Answer

 

[eclipse98gs-t]

Final setup. I agree with no pcv valvle. if you inspect your car and pass then im near 100% sure that is not heavy modifyed. If is the case leave it stock.

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Hehe, you welcome,

I choosed this setup too!!!
Excellent results.

 

[oldman]

I choosed this setup too!!!
Excellent results.

How do you know this? How long have you been running this setup? Didn't you read the original post about having smoke coming out of the catch can and do you know why?

Is that a response to my post? If so, explain away.

I appoligize, it has been a long weekend and I'm frustrated because no one seems to be listening, I will go throught each picture and explain the best that I can, I was talking to everyone and not just you.

Picture number 1: Looks stock but not, the breather is vented to the atmosphere causing unmetered air to enter the system through the pcv valve when ever you're under idle or part throttle.

Picture number 3: Slightly better but just like your (Laser4G63) stup of going to the intake pipe, where is the fresh air to replace the what is being drawn out coming from? One can not ventilate a closed enclosure without fresh air source, one in and on out. another problem with your setup is that the intake snorkle will not generate enough vacuum, only happens under boost and very little with K&N type open filter system, to do anything productive, imagine what is happening to blowby while you're sitting at a traffic light right after hard driving.

Picture number 4: Same as picture number 3.

Picture number 5: This goes back to my original disscusion with MyBeatGSX, this setup will definitely relief pressure but does almost nothing to ventilate or swap out fuel mixture, AKA blowby, which will end up mixing/contaminating with your oil.

The best solution, if you're interested in doing it right, is picture number 2 but adding another seperate catch can to the third line and reroute it back to the intake snorkle.

Hope I made it clear.