Anybody know anything about ram-air?

[jakelandry]

Im in the process of making a different kind of ram air. I see people running cold airs and whatnot to the outside of their cars 24/7 but one thing i do notice is the fact that they never fail to always have a very long tube from their filter to their TB ( which 90% of the time is alluminum). Thus im overly confident that within the time the air is sucked in it becomes hot before reaching the TB. So i Concluded that if i were to run a Short ram, build a fibreglass, air tight container for the filter, and run some non metal piping as far away from the motor as possible connected from the air box to the outside of my car with a funnel like end ( and a water filter somewhere throughout for rain), my car will be pulling in colder air since the only hot metal that the air has to pass through is a short ram. VS. a cold air where the air must travel longer through a hot tube. ( so in a nutshell the cold air from outside travels through a non heated tube until it reached the filter. then it travels through 8 inches of hotter pipe to the TB) I know this all seams like it will be ghetto, but i have already started and fibreglass can be cleaned up nicely . Does anyone think i will get even a small gain power wise from this? Also since the box is air tight and the air has nowhere to go but the filter would i be forcing too much air into the motor?

 

[mschlanglv]

You are going to find more gains worrying about the temp of the inlet air rather than heating from the intake tract. The air is moving so fast through the intake there is little time for it to pick up heat.

As a data point, on my old mustang I had air temp sensors both in the intake manifold near the head and in the air intake near the filter. While the engine was running I rarely saw more than a 5* difference between the two.

 

[pboglio]

I'm not a fan of sealed airboxes cause I've tried this very thing. My car felt great at part throttle with the air "ramming" in, but at full throttle the motor simply couldn't breath well enough. I pulled it all apart and just added a cold duct feeding the bottom of the air filter. If it was designed right, then I could maybe see it working.

 

[jakelandry]

I'm not a fan of sealed airboxes cause I've tried this very thing. My car felt great at part throttle with the air "ramming" in, but at full throttle the motor simply couldn't breath well enough. I pulled it all apart and just added a cold duct feeding the bottom of the air filter. If it was designed right, then I could maybe see it working.

so you dont think a large funnel connected to something like 3 inch hose would be able to feed it fast enough?

 

[98spyderboost]

Agreed, to an extent... I don't think you will see any effect from the pipe being a bit cooler. That being said, making your intake really cold by placing cold packs on it and wrapping the intake tube with cold packs are common practices among N/T drag racers here at the local redneck short tracks. However 'tube cooling' isn't going to amount to a noticeable gain in power unless you go pretty extreme. Simply using another material won't net you anything measurable.

Now getting that intake opening out of the engine bay is a worth while venture, regardless of the pipe material methinks. You should feel confident that you will see at least a slight gain with your setup. Good luck with it and post pics when you're done

 

[98spyderboost]

so you dont think a large funnel connected to something like 3 inch hose would be able to feed it fast enough?

If you mean 'hard pipe' when you say hose. And you're feeding it through the fender front into the open space below where it is separated from the engine compartment and open to outside air, then yes... If you don't want to go metal then I recommend a 3" PVC setup. You can get couplers and many different angled bends. A little cement and paint and BAM. You can even shave the joints and glass it to make it smooth and sexy

Don't you DARE put a dryer hose on there! This ain't no Chevy pickup!

 

[pboglio]

I went with 4" myself.

 

[98spyderboost]

I went with 4" myself.

Now that I think about it. If you work with PVC... yea 4"

DO IT DO IT

 

[TOONAH]

There are many kinds of pipe sold by McMaster-Carr that specify velocity factors. Velocity is as important as volume, especially if you are running a 2G head. Ram air is difficult when used with a turbocharger. My thought is, yes, the cooler you can keep the intake air and the cooler the intake manifold is, all the better. But in fact, Methanol injection, through chemical reaction in the intake ports lowers the intake charge temperature a lot more then any ram air system can.

 

[jakelandry]

ok i will post pics when i start. Itll probably be quite some time before i am done prob at least a week. Full time college student + girlfriend = no time.

 

[pboglio]

There is power to be had running a ramair setup, specially at speeds above 70 mph. I've measured static pressure of about 8" of H20 which is about 1/4 psi above 80 mph on my STi on the hood duct. Considering your turbo would never see more than 13.5 psi, that gives you about a 2% increase in power from the pressure increase, and definitely a gain from the cold air density increase.

How you can collect it without creating pressure loss in the system is the key. I would definitely not use anything smaller than 4" in diameter since your going to need over 2 feet of hose to do it.

Another thing is phenolic intake manifold spacers. They will keep the intake charge cool right before the air goes into the cylinder head. You ever notice how right when you start your car up it feels fast, then it gets heat soaked and it gets slower. Well with the intake manifold spacers, you have that kind of performance all the time.

 

[red97tib]

Full time college student + DSM = no time for girlfriend.

Fixed.

Considering your turbo would never see more than 13.5 psi, that gives you about a 2% increase in power from the pressure increase, and definitely a gain from the cold air density increase.

Um, you did notice he has a n/t car right?

 

[jakelandry]

Fixed.


, ive had it two weeks and she complains everyday.

 

[rEclipserGST]

Fixed.


, ive had it two weeks and she complains everyday.

They never stop complaining. When it breaks, she complains. When you mod, she complains "that money could be spent on me"... NOT! When it runs, she complains "your taking corners too fast, why you always racing".

She drives an 08 Tiburon and is lucky its all black... otherwise I would never be caught driving it

But hey, now she knows I need money on my bday, xmas, and any other holiday that deserves gifts. I won't stop til the roads collapse

 

[jakelandry]

you hit it dead on man. 100% my life.

 

[red97tib]

Man that is every DSMers life right there. My ex hated my talon till the day i dumped her, now the new girl is on edge about the car.

 

[gixrman]

They never stop complaining. When it breaks, she complains. When you mod, she complains "that money could be spent on me"... NOT! When it runs, she complains "your taking corners too fast, why you always racing".

She drives an 08 Tiburon and is lucky its all black... otherwise I would never be caught driving it

But hey, now she knows I need money on my bday, xmas, and any other holiday that deserves gifts. I won't stop til the roads collapse

Just wait till your married. Everything you do is stupid that she doesn't approve of including the car.

 

[jakelandry]

Just wait till your married. Everything you do is stupid that she doesn't approve of including the car.

mmm cant wait! This is my first car too so it is even worse. Its all i ever ### to do.

 

[Joe-GSX]

Ha ha my ex hated my gsx.. I put all the time and money into it. Ha I think it was the money going to my gsx and not her but oh well. The car is more fun

Getting back on topic I don't know if I would do this to a n/t car.. But its a nice thought .. Conduit as an intake hmmm... I'd use a pvc heater or a torch to bend that tube..

 

[Achelea]

On Topic: Ideally a air tight box would cause problems if you're driving in the rain, cause if it's airtight, it will collect water, and that would be bad. Ideally if you're trying for Ram Air, you need a switch back or some where that the water would collect before it makes it to your filter. Since your car is N/T, You probably use it as a DD, and you need reliability and function. I've thought about something similar, but my car being turbo, it might have different effect. :/

About Significant others: I must have found a jewel. Mine doesn't care as long as the bills are paid.

 

[pboglio]

Here's a nice article about ram-induction on all the latest sport bikes. The pressure testing correlates with what I say on my 05 STi: Sport Rider-ram air induction test for sport bike motorcycles

 

[jakelandry]

Here's a nice article about ram-induction on all the latest sport bikes. The pressure testing correlates with what I say on my 05 STi: Sport Rider-ram air induction test for sport bike motorcycles

So you suggest i use 4 inch pvc so i have the right pressure withhout choking the motor rather than letting it flow through and just let it suck up what it can? And intake manifold spacers would also do their part in helping?

 

[pboglio]

For intake spacers, these are the only ones I use or would ever use since they are a real form of phenolic: Outlaw Engineering

Being that your an NT, maybe 3" would suffice. My engine flows 41-44 lb/min, your's maybe 25 lb/min even completely modded to the hilt.

Let me save you the trouble and just look at this prebuilt ram air setup, I am way beyond its flow capability but it might be perfect for your NT.

K&N Apollo Universal Closed Air Intake Systems

 

[jakelandry]

For intake spacers, these are the only ones I use or would ever use since they are a real form of phenolic: Outlaw Engineering

Being that your an NT, maybe 3" would suffice. My engine flows 41-44 lb/min, your's maybe 25 lb/min even completely modded to the hilt.

Let me save you the trouble and just look at this prebuilt ram air setup, I am way beyond its flow capability but it might be perfect for your NT.

K&N Apollo Universal Closed Air Intake Systems

Thnx for the suggestions man. I honestly feel like a complete noob now because ive never even seen an Apollo. Thanks for the advice tho man.

For intake spacers, these are the only ones I use or would ever use since they are a real form of phenolic: Outlaw Engineering



Their website claims that they are only made for 4g63.. any suggestions for a n/t?