and the build begins :)

[25391tally]

so i had a blown head gasket and took the head to the shop today come to find out i need to take it apart ........
so i now i say why not build the head while its out

things to come...
full pp
three or five angle valve grind (cant decide)
new valve seals
milled to spec
cometic head gasket
arp head studs
hopefully to come....
crower 272s
titanium valve springs and retainers



want camgears but dont know what to buy what are the best bang for the buck hks seem really over priced

 

[PIMking]

You do know that there is more than HKS cam gears. I have AEM on my car.

 

[25391tally]

ya i know i am just looking for the best bang for my buck and no sure it all comes down to money which i dont have alot of so i am just looking for the best function for the price

 

[dSmgs-T]

ya i know i am just looking for the best bang for my buck and no sure it all comes down to money which i dont have alot of so i am just looking for the best function for the price

well if thats the case, then HKS cam gears are the complete opposite direction you want to go in.

 

[tqmx1]

On the heads make sure they flow them before and after they port the heads. They should be more than happy to show you how good there head works not just how pertty it looks. I have seen some head work on Hardleys(the bigger is better method) and they flowed better stock!!

Also along with the seals check the valve guides they have a bad habbit of oblonging.

As I said before good luvk on the project.

 

[Lumix315]

ya i know i am just looking for the best bang for my buck and no sure it all comes down to money which i dont have alot of so i am just looking for the best function for the price

If you are looking for the best bang for your buck, I would look into a set of Fidanza Adjustable Cam Gears. They are a very nice looking set, have a bit of variety that you can tailor to your taste, and the price is hard to beat.

Check out Modern Automotive Performance's website here: Fidanza#-#Adjustable Cam Gears#-#Cylinder Head and Camshaft Components#-#Engine Components and Cooling#-#DSM#-#Modern Automotive Performance

I plan on running these on my car and, for my current budget, I have a pretty substancial build going on.

 

[25391tally]

good tips i am just doing my head and my budget is ###### going to be around 1100 i told the machine shop for them it was around 400 so he said he would hook it up also i would like to know what the best springs / retainers are when do yo need to upgrade valves ?

 

[Lumix315]

good tips i am just doing my head and my budget is ###### going to be around 1100 i told the machine shop for them it was around 400 so he said he would hook it up also i would like to know what the best springs / retainers are when do yo need to upgrade valves ?

Well, personally, when I bought my Brian Crower cams (272 In./Ex. Combo), I bought a set of titanium valvesprings and retainers to go along with them. The 272's are substancially heavier cams than the stockers and the stock valvetrain should be beefed up a bit more to support them. I suppose you could run the 272's with stock valvetrain but, as it is with most power making builds, it would only be a matter of time until you have to upgrade. I saved myself the time of having to do headwork twice.

I should ask you how high you plan on revving your motor up to?? If you only plan on revving it up to the stock redline, then you should be fine with a single, titanium(softer metal - can handle the stock redline), valvespring set. Check out Brian Crower. If you plan on surpassing the stock redline, then you might want to look into a dual, high-strength alloy or steel(Stronger metal - can handle the stress of revving your motor to the moon), valvespring setup. Ferrea makes some nice products but they can get kind of pricey.

As for the Valve upgrade, I've always been under the assumption that you would go to 1mm oversized valves if you have a race setup tailored for big power. If you don't have that, then you would, most likely, be hindering yourself than helping.

A little insight on the valve question, please?? Wiseman??

 

[25391tally]

well regardless i intend on upgrading valve springs and everything so i think i am going to get the brian crowers affordable and slight upgrade its going to be a racecar by no means i just want a fast car that s was i was just going to get the valve grind i work at mcdonalds so its not like i have a ton of money on hand i guess i just got to save up haha before pictures of the head to come>>>....

 

[25391tally]

also what valve grind should i do ?

 

[Lumix315]

Valve Grind??WTF Please explain a little more....

 

[25391tally]

well i dont know much i just know it directs air flow and something about the angle or idk but its a three angle or five angle and the shop said it would be a good idea i believe it has to do with the air swirling with the gas or something to make a better mixture somebody correct me if i am wrong though

 

[25391tally]

sorry for double posting but can i run a 85.5 mm head gasket on a stock bore or not ? the site says i can but that sounds a little iffy .

 

[Lumix315]

Oh okay. I understand you now. You're talking about a Valve Job - the 3-angle the or 5-angle. I know what a valve job is but I don't have any personal experience, yet (I haven't decided whether or not I will be having my head worked on), with machine work being done on my cylinder head or my engine block. However, I will as my power goals grow larger in the future.

SO...I'm not going to attempt to give you some advice on it. I'll leave that topic to other who have.

I will tell you that if you want to know what it all consists of, how much it costs, and what shops are around your area that perform them, you should do some research. Use the SEARCH button on this site, and I'm sure you'll yield some great results on what it is and WHEN it is necessary to have the work done - Think increasingly, large, power goals = the need for engine work. Take things one step at a time and cover all of you essential bases (I.E. MAINTAINENCE work) first. Have you read, most or all, of the stickies that are archived here on what upgrade path to follow? Also, just check out the business white pages to find shops in your area. Also, there may be a regional forum that you can access to find this out, as well. Hope this gave you a few idea to ponder. Good luck.

 

[25391tally]

well i already have a pretty good shop my buddies 4g is actually there right now so ya i figure just build the piss out of the head while it needs to go to the shop anyway right ? haha also what about the head gasket ? anyone know i am going cometic for sure i just dont know if the 85.5 will work /?

 

[1SickAuto]

well on valve job, ive talked to a really repital company around here, probably the best. they said it doesnt matter it u go all the way to a 16 angle valve job ## not going to see a huge amount of difference from it being a 3 angle (unless ## putting down an unrealiatic amount of power). i didnt argue with them as they do it for a living, so dont quote me on anything. im just telling u what ive heard. hope that helps u deside a lil.

 

[Lumix315]

Alright Tally, I was looking at your profile and it's pretty skimpy. I'm assuming your are on an, almost, entirely stock setup? I take it that you are just trying to build a street car for now?? What are your power goals for the car???

I think that it's great that you've found a shop that you have confidence in. Good job. Although, I would have to disagree with your thought process on building the piss out of the head while it's out, and here's why. That may be a good idea IF you are going to build the piss out the rest of the motor/car. Think about it...why would you build this sweet race head if you don't have all the other supporting modifications to help it shine?? That's like going balls-to-the-wall everytime you work-out in the gym, and then you race home to eat four plates of that quadruple chocolate cake your mom made for you. You're going to cause unnecessary frustration for yourself due to the fact that it won't yield the results that you are seeking because it totally defeats the whole purpose for doing it in the first place. Forgive my figure of speech...it's by no means meant to be offensive.

You have to build from the ground up, man. Like I asked you, have you you taken care of your recommended maintainence and made sure your car runs soundly, safely, and reliably first??? If so, THEN, by following the upgrade path for your car (that is stickied here on the site), take your mods one step at a time. Each mod should be able to help you properly support the next.

About the headgasket; The stock bore size, on the block, is 85mm so you don't need anything bigger than that at this point. I would recommend a Mitsu MLS (Multiple Layer Steel) Head Gasket for you application. I will be using this part, as well as, almost entirely, Mitsubishi parts on/in my motor. It's a long story, but I am completely rebuilding my car.

 

[1SickAuto]

actually on the head that i had in my car which was a single cam (biggest cam W/o being custom made) 3 ANGLE valve job, radical street and strip P&P, CC dual valve springs, 1mm oversize ss valve,plug more (thats over 3 grand there). needless to say the car had a fully built bottom end. keep in mind this was a N/A motor that was driven daily and it still put down 200 hundy to the wheels PUMP GAS. do u honestly this i would of notice a difference with even a 5 angle. its a waste of money to do it especially if hes just doing the head and no bottom end work

 

[1SickAuto]

nvm lumix315, i thought u were referring to me on that post. its really late and i cant sleep . sorry bro

 

[Lumix315]

actually on the head that i had in my car which was a single cam (biggest cam W/o being custom made) 3 ANGLE valve job, radical street and strip P&P, CC dual valve springs, 1mm oversize ss valve,plug more (thats over 3 grand there). needless to say the car had a fully built bottom end. keep in mind this was a N/A motor that was driven daily and it still put down 200 hundy to the wheels PUMP GAS. do u honestly this i would of notice a difference with even a 5 angle. its a waste of money to do it especially if hes just doing the head and no bottom end work

I didn't offer any advice on the valve job question that he had, and what I underlined in your sentence is pretty much what I'm trying to get at. With all that work, you had a built bottom end. He doesn't have anything done to his car, as far as it looks like, so it's not going to do him a whole lot of good to start with building the piss out of the head. He should follow the upgrade path that's layed out here on the site. He's gotta learn to walk before he can run.

 

[Lumix315]

Auto, no worries. I know exactly how you feel. Which is why I'm out like a fat kid in dodge ball. It's time to call it a night. I'll check back tomorrow.

 

[1SickAuto]

^^^^^^^ + 1 agreed

 

[tqmx1]

On the valve job let the shop thats doing the port work decide on whats best and what works with there porting. Bigger is not always better(in porting & valve sizes).

That is where someone with a super flow air bench and knowes how to use it comes in handy

 

[25391tally]

i have decided to just do the pp and valve grind and then start with boltons no cams or anything else . then later on do the cams and what not i am picking up a spare block to start building so that is probably when i will fully build the head as for the pp and valve grind ... benneficial?

 

[Lumix315]

i have decided to just do the pp and valve grind and then start with boltons no cams or anything else . then later on do the cams and what not i am picking up a spare block to start building so that is probably when i will fully build the head as for the pp and valve grind ... benneficial?

Hey..great choice! I think that you'll be happy starting with bolt-ons because it'll allow you to really learn about your car by how it reacts to certain things and to understand why. DSM's can be pretty finicky from time to time, so starting with a base/stock platform will be a good for you. Plus, when the time comes to really start digging into your car, you'll be more prepared to do so.

As for the porting, polishing, and the valve job, I'd say don't bother right now unless you absolutely need to do it. Spend your money where it counts right now - getting the essential parts/maintainence done to get the car back on the road so you can move on to the fun part - modding!

First: The valve job; If I were you right now, I would tear the head down, examine it (make sure it's good to go), hot-tank it (Clean it up), reassemble it, and put it back on the block so you can get your motor running again. Second: The port/polish job; For what you are doing right now, with bolt-ons and such, it's not going to benefit you. Also, you will see more gains from this with a naturally aspirated (N/A) motor than you will with a force fed car (Super Charged or Turbo Charged). Keep this in mind. While discussing this particular topic with two good friends of mine, each with very high horsepower cars (~600 and 750hp, respectively), one told me that, looking back at it, it wasn't super beneficial for him...the gains weren't very large. The other stated, in agreement, that my money would be better spent elsewhere. Therefore, save your hard earned greenbacks so you can put them towards, honestly, beneficial bolt-ons.