Advice on bottom end rebuild!

[Slippi84]

Ok i out like three post up and no one really responded maybe I did something wrong but anyway I have a loud knock coming from the block leakin oil and a shitty idle so I tried posting for help on what it might be. I have got it. MY ENGINE IS F"ED UP. Quite a professional analysis right. Well anyway I am trying to get my engine block in pretty much new condition to handle 350 to 400awhp( I pick that number because I just put in a stage three clutch that holds 400 hp). So anyway what do you guys that have done a rebuilt or internals swap suggest should I got 2g pistons with eagle rods, JE pistons with Eagle rods, save money an just get some OEM which would probably hold the hp I'm trying to make or is there another route I should take. I want my car on the road as soon as possible, and I'm dealing with about 1k money wise just for parts and shipping. Only thing I'm not trying to do is stroker little overkill for me. Thanks guys.

 

[put2gether]

Rebuild it simple, with new stock parts. A fresh, stock 6bolt bottom end could handle that HP easy. But if you wanna go nuts.... get an estimate on the machining costs of your 1g rods to fit 2g pistons in your area. If it's near 200.00, you may as well go ahead and get a forged set. Top it all off with a nice HG, and ARP hardware.

 

[tim4g63fast]

wiesco pistons are the cheapest and proven good. i got mine for less that 400 dollers on ebay brand new from jam and they threw in a tshirt (pistons include rings). couple those with 1g big rods clevite 77 bearings that are not much more expensive that federal mogals. arp head studs witch are only more expensive than oem buy a few bucks and gaskets such as front and rear main seal, oilpan gasket, headgasket, exauste manifold gasket, intake manifold gasket if you chose to replace head which i recomend, always replace valve cover gasket just cuz its a good time to do it and im assuming you will clean your engine bay while engine is out. who wants oil all over a freshley cleaned block. couple all that stuff with other little crap you will need. thats the set up your looking for or atleast i would be.

 

[tim4g63fast]

I forgot sell the 2g pistons to somebody. hes wright it is way to expensive to have them put on especially when wiesco is twice as goo for the same price and you dont have to have the rod machined. leave all the metal you can on the rod sliming it down defeats the purpose of a 1g big rod. some people say it dosent make a diff. but why chance it when you dont have to?

 

[Slippi84]

No i didn't get the 2g pistons yet and I don't think I am. I am thinking about going with this company on ebay called NIppon Racing. They make cast iron pistons that are slightly better than stock and come with piston rings and are .20 over. They have the 7:8:1 stock compression and they will go right on my 90 tsi 1g big rods and the same company makes peformance rod bearings that i'm gonna get. I already have a multi layer steel HG which came with an overhaul gasket set. I'm not changing my head because it already has stage 3 cams along with jackson racing valve springs and retainers. I am pickin up some SS valves to complete the head though. I had two things I wanted to get from this rebuild. The ability to run 350awhp safely and a CR that would allow me to run a 50 shot zex wet system w/o detonation. I only plan on runnin a 14b with about 15 psi cause the nos will creep me up to 18psi.

 

[tim4g63fast]

thats cool just wondering what brand of h/g i knew somebody that actually got a multilayer felpro not the composite one and he actually would have ended up being better with the composite. the crappy multilayer leaked horribly. I'm not disputing the multilayers h/g's superiority unless it is felpro.

 

[put2gether]

No i didn't get the 2g pistons yet and I don't think I am. I am thinking about going with this company on ebay called NIppon Racing. They make cast iron pistons that are slightly better than stock and come with piston rings and are .20 over. They have the 7:8:1 stock compression and they will go right on my 90 tsi 1g big rods and the same company makes peformance rod bearings that i'm gonna get.

The reason people get the 2g pistons, is cause it raises the 7.8:1 compression to 8.5:1. Thus allowing you to make more power at the same boost level. If you wanna go all the way stock, you may as well save money, and part shopping, by getting that Topline kit for 500.00. Add a water pump, and some ARP hardware, and you should be fine. I've heard some bad things about the topline kit, but I've never seen anything personally. In fact I know a guy with a little over 6,000 miles on a topline built engine, running a 14b @ 18psi, and a N.O.S. kit 50 shot. Your similar goals reminded me of that car.

 

[Slippi84]

Yeah that's why I was thinking about the 2g pistons stay with my sleeper 14b and a 50 shot but the 8:5:1 CR and the 50 shot would give me power similar to a maxed out Evo 16g, w/o having to be a tuning mastermind causxe I'm not gonna lie my tuning skills aren't amazing. But I got my headgasket on ebay with an overhaul kit for like $150. It said MLS steel Headgasket. I don't know if the MLS is the company or they mean Multi Layer Steel HG. Anyway yeah the appeal of the stock compression is that I can run Higher boost with nos w/o detonation and the pistons I got were "Anodized coated on the top, this helps to lower heat Absorbation thus resulting in lower knock, more horsepower and less spool up time" Now that's what they claim I think they're Anodized which will help prevent detonation but I don't know bout the rest of that they claim. I will definately find out though. I ordered them in .20 over and I'm getting my block bored, honed and surfaced for $200. Not bad if I do say so myself. I'll keep you guys in the loop for my hunt for 11's.

 

[promiscuousman]

I would suggest a stock bottom end rebuild, with an OEM headgasket. No need to go overboard. I rebuilt my bottom end about two months ago using stock piston/ring set from partsdinosaur.com (133 bucks for pistons, rings, and pins). Also order a gasket kit, and some bearings, total for all that should be about 250ish. I did the labor myself, and the next weekend, I ran a 12.98 @105 (with a slight boost leak, speaking of which I recommend replacing the injector o-rings while you have it apart, very cheap). When you take it apart, measure the cylinders with an inside micrometer to check for taper or out-of-round. I've never rebuilt an engine before, but I personally didn't think that it was that hard.

Good luck
Cory

 

[Slippi84]

I pretty much said why go stock when I can slightly upgrade for about the same price.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...d=1,1&item=7982008411&sspagename=STRK:MEWN:IT

That is the link to my pistons. I got them and the rod bearings that they talk about in the second part shipped for 153 dollars. So pistons, rings and rod bearings for 153 isn't bad at all. The andonized coating is apealling to me cause it helps prevent detonation and with my turbo + nos setup that will come in handy.

 

[KuZo]

I'd be a little weary of "cheap" vital parts such as engine internals. There are some things you can cheap out on and some you shouldn't. Just think, they are cheap because of 1 of 2 reasons, they are either made cheaply or you got one hell of a deal. By the price these sell for I think they are made just made cheap. Actually the rings I'd be more concerned about, considering the boost and the nitrous you want to run they're going to have to hold up to that torture. In the end it's up to you because it's your money, but you can't go wrong with a set of Wiseco or JE Pistons, Mahle Rings, and Clevite77 Bearings. Good luck with the build.

 

[Slippi84]

Well hell of course I would love to get some forged internals and be as close to care free as you can get but it is real hard to tell someone not to go with a 150 dollar setup over a 300+ setup just for pistons. the stock setup has been proven to hold around 500 hp my goal is 350 say I go over even 100 hp because I get the boost bug or a even scarry bug the use bigger nitrous jets bug I will still be able to hold the power w/o frying the engine. I do have a question though i just saw a really apealin auction on ebay for 2g stock pistons on 1g shot peaned rods with arp connectors and new bearings(main and rod) for a good price but how will 8:5:1 hold up to nitrous and turbo as compared to my stock 7:8:1

 

[put2gether]

The 8.5:1 compression will make more power, and give you a slightly quicker spool time. Be careful with the nitrous though. I wouldn't run more than a 75 shot with that setup just to be safe. As always, the better your tune, the more power you can safely make.

8.5:1 would hold up to nitrous just fine. It's safe limits (about a 75 shot) on a stock 2g with that compression is the the same as it is on a stock 1g. Start low and tune it... then increase the shot. If you wanted anything more than a 75 shot you really shouldv'e beefed up the bottom end a little.

 

[Slippi84]

Got an update I went with the 2g pistons auction I think I got a great deal on everything. New 2g pistons, big 1g rods that have been shotpeened and stress relieved, new rings, new main and rod bearings and arp connectors for 200. I felt a little more comfortable going with the proven 2g pistons than slappin xyz companies unproven pistons on my used rods. So now I have the raised compression to get that extra kick out of the same psi, which is a big beneift because I won't have to push my 14b as hard. I think that I will be able to reach my goal with about 16-18 psi and a 50-75 shot of nitrous(wet of course) on race gas. I say 16-18 psi because my 14b will creep to about 20psi which seems to be the agreed ball park limit of the 14b before you just push hot air into your engine. I know this isn't a bottom end question but what do you guys think suprsa smic or go to a small fmic for the 14b at 20psi with nitrous.

 

[KuZo]

Good to hear you went with some proven parts.... I meant to say in my last post that stock internals aren't a bad choice as well, if you didn't go forged.

The supra SMIC will flow more air obviously, so it will be a good upgrade over the small stock one. If you can get one for a good price, jump on it, or just save up for a FMIC.

 

[razorawd]

To be on the safe side me personally I went all out on forged internals. It's safer than stock with good tunning it will handle anythingyou throw at it. Keep tunning in mind when build any part of the motor.