95 gst intercooler option/question

[Shamrokk]

Ok, so I have a 1995 Eclipse GST. Current mods are a '91 6bolt swap, with the 14b turbo, DNP turbo manifold, cat delete, 3 inch exhaust, and a massive front mount intercooler. By massive I mean its almost as big as my radiator and has 3 inch inlets. So my question is which would work better for me: the front mount that i have now, which has shabby patchwork piping; or getting a vehicle specific piping kit for my 1g side mount intercooler. I dont plan on modifying my motor much more than this, I plan on adding a boost controller, dialing it to 15psi, and a downpipe. Any helpful advice would be appreciated. Oh and it does have a 2gb front bumper.

 

[95 tsi 95 gst]

id go with all the right piping and couplers i did the patch work piping and it came out bad and had leaks i got the right piping on ebay it works just fine

 

[4Lurker4]

In all honesty, you can get by with the SMIC with that kind of boost, and probably come on top by selling the FMIC. Would look cleaner too if the pipes are really badly made.

 

[Shamrokk]

My problem is that I can't find a kit that looks like it would fit my ic. And I believe my ic is too big for my setup. So you say you would use "right" piping and the 1g side mount?

 

[LiquidX]

You have no need for that massive FMIC let alone using 3" IC pipe with a dinky 14b. You are possibly loosing power or at the least increasing lag using that setup since that 14b has to fill that large volume.

Consider switching to a smaller FMIC like the VRSF or Punishment Racing kits, it would be much better suited to your setup.

 

[Shamrokk]

As I stated before, I do have a 1g side mount. Its thicker than a 2g.

 

[awdspyder98]

Dump that Huge fmic.. its not worth it at your current power levels.

 

[4Lurker4]

You'll need to custom fab the 1g in there http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/244535-1g-smic-2g.html because inlets aren't oriented the same way. Better just to sell the 1g and buy a 2g or even a supra SMIC (which is an upgrade to either stock SMICs we have).

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Well, hold on a sec there folks.

I will agree that the 3" piping is a bit much, because charge face velocity will drop too much. 2.5" would be cheaper and more than adequate, at least for this application.

But even on a stock tune and stock boost the SMIC gets heatsoaked relatively easy. If the OP intends to turn up the boost like he stated, it will only exacerbate the issue.

The turbo does not have to "fill" the IC, there is already air in there. It just needs to compress it up against the intake valves.. I did not notice much lag when I had a 3x12x24 (30 with end tanks) on an old 1G, but I did pick up an appreciable amount of power throughout and noticed any knock or noise that might have been present (set the CEL via Link to flash at me @ 2*) disappeared.

Granted some of this could be attribute to the aggressive stock 1G timing tables, which the IC seemingly let me take advantage of. In any event, better charge cooling = more power

It's just like when someone tells you "272s are not streetable" ... completely subjective.

You've got it, try it. If you don't like it go back to stock. But at least hot-tank all the crap out of your SMIC before putting it back on and make sure you put the ducting/shielding back if you go back to stock.

I personally would always go with a bigger core, especially if you plan to up the boost. Smaller compressors tend to be less efficient anyways.

Just do it, and report back. If your results end up anything like mine, you will never run the SMIC ever again. Consistent piping diameter with no weird bottle necks is always a bonus.

 

[Trusteclipse307]

I also think with the lower power levels youre going with a smaller front mount or side mount would be better.

 

[Shamrokk]

Not all of my piping is 3. It's a mixture of stock cloth braided, a metal pipe that that will fit over, and a piece of 2.5 here or there, and 2.5 to 3 silicone adapters for ic. Its really pieced together from turbo to ic. It's fine after the ic but horrible before. Anybody know where i can get a piping kit for the fmic? Or anyone willing to trade a smaller ic?

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

frozenboost.com.

There used to be a DSM discount of something like 8-10%

You could pick up a small pipe kit and keep all the 3" on the hot side of the IC, and then neck down to 2.5 between the outlet and the TB in an attempt to pick up response.

Just try and make as smooth a transition as possible. Ideally you should just use all 2.5"

Keep the IC you got, you may be surprised. It doesn't sound like many have actually done it, they are just going on what they have read and been told.

I found it to be a worthwhile change, and have run it that way several times. I use my 14B and associated parts to scoot around on between changing to bigger setups

 

[Shamrokk]

Not all of my piping is 3. It's a mixture of stock cloth braided, a metal pipe that that will fit over, and a piece of 2.5 here or there, and 2.5 to 3 silicone adapters for ic. Its really pieced together from turbo to ic. It's fine after the ic but horrible before. Anybody know where i can get a piping kit for the fmic? Or anyone willing to trade a smaller ic?

 

[4Lurker4]

LandSpeed-DSM don't generalize on people's experience. I've done both, and personally I'd rather have an SMIC. Granted you have to keep a ducting shroud to make it work to it's full potential (but that works on FMIC as well so nothing new here),. Considering he's daily driving it, heat soak won't happen often if any. You don't push the turbo to it's brink every second. My Big SMIC took care of a Big T28, small 16g, 14b with no issues (and before that I had the 2g smic which still did it's part). Tried a Hahn FMIC and I had more lag, and that's a same side inlet/outlet. The added bonus of less piping and less bends also helped spool-up. Considering spool is what makes daily driving fun, I can't recommend the FMIC.

You can buy pre-made piping from Dejon (dejonpowerhouse.com) but they are expensive.

 

[Shamrokk]

Not all of my piping is 3. It's a mixture of stock cloth braided, a metal pipe that that will fit over, and a piece of 2.5 here or there, and 2.5 to 3 silicone adapters for ic. Its really pieced together from turbo to ic. It's fine after the ic but horrible before. Anybody know where i can get a piping kit for the fmic? Or anyone willing to trade a smaller ic?

 

[4Lurker4]

Not all of my piping is 3. It's a mixture of stock cloth braided, a metal pipe that that will fit over, and a piece of 2.5 here or there, and 2.5 to 3 silicone adapters for ic. Its really pieced together from turbo to ic. It's fine after the ic but horrible before. Anybody know where i can get a piping kit for the fmic? Or anyone willing to trade a smaller ic?

Why are you posting the same thing 3 times?

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Well, we don't know how he drives it. Speaking of generalizing..

He also lives in the South.. you live in Ontario. It gets hot and muggy down by him and stays that way.

Probably on 91oct pump too.

I used to have logs that showed absolutely zero difference in spool between a hot-tanked 1G SMIC and the Garrett core I had, but flow was up, timing was up (power was too consequently) and IATs would stay below 115* even after multiple back-to-back pulls. (Link V3 SD) This was with at least 10ft of 2.75" charge piping as well. The 14B was just the interim turbo while I was upgrading the hotside on my old S259.

Here's a pic of the setup:

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I'll see if I can find them when I get home, but they may be on an old dead laptop.

 

[Shamrokk]

Sorry, i think my phone is being stupid. I do daily drive this car and we do have 93 octane gas here. I'm trying to get the best balance between reliability, efficiency, and performance. I understand you cant have all but I'm trying to get the best balance within my reach. No matter what i need to redo the piping. This car was done stupidly. Previous owner took a straight piece of cloth braided hose and just bent it up to jpipe on turbo. It's rediculous.

 

[4Lurker4]

Well I'm not here to debate specifics, we don't know if he still has AC for instance. How high his water temps get (FMIC block the flow to radiator in hot climate making it worse). Just saying don't dismiss other's experience, it's not professional. Yes I am aware of his location, doesn't change much in my response, his fuel octane would though (but I also run 91, 93 is better than mine). If he wants to push it more, add water injection I'm just saying he doesn't NEED an FMIC for this type of set-up.

Either way, only thing I'm saying is that piping for an SMIC is short, doesn't have as many bends since turbo outlet goes straight to ic (2 less 90deg bends). Mathematically, spool should be quicker, less volume to fill, quicker route and less directional flow changes. I'd really like to see your logs if you manage to find them though, out of curiosity. With that kind of piping on the FMIC I would definitely predict a difference in spool.

Sorry, i think my phone is being stupid. I do daily drive this car and we do have 93 octane gas here. I'm trying to get the best balance between reliability, efficiency, and performance. I understand you cant have all but I'm trying to get the best balance within my reach. No matter what i need to redo the piping. This car was done stupidly. Previous owner took a straight piece of cloth braided hose and just bent it up to jpipe on turbo. It's rediculous.

Reliability will really depend on maintenance at this level. You're not pushing the turbo too hard and should have enough cooling whichever FMIC/SMIC you chose. From a cost perspective, SMIC would be cheaper, easier to route a 14b to SMIC than it is to find/make piping for a FMIC (specially if the upper pipping you have is already routed from throttle body to the hole on the passenger side under the fusebox). Actually, many have done that type of piping it's the cheap way of fitting the 14b on, I'm guessing they used a 1g outlet pipe on the turbo too. I would recommend the SMIC, but the FMIC has more potential if you ever wished to boost higher or upgrade turbos. Also note how bad roads are and how much debris you get daily driving, FMIC is at the front and will take everything thrown as it, the SMIC is nicely protected in the fender area from most debris.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

On paper I would agree, but there is what works in theory, and what happens in practice. Like I said, I necked the piping down after the core to help with charge face velocity.

I am not sure how you got that I am dismissing everyones experience across the board. My post was to illustrate sometimes you need to try things on your own and I don't like the instant disregarding of actual experience that may not line up with things that so many have taken for gospel here. It is quite safe to say for the most part many have never even tried because they were told it doesn't work or what have you. So that is not exactly an unfair statement on my part.

Additionally nowhere in my posts do I say he needed it, so I think you may be reading too much into my words because I happen to disagree with you. It's natural to want to defend your choices. I tried both, took data before and after and reached my conclusion.

I have re-tested this a couple times and probably will do so again next fall when the HX52 comes off and the 14B goes back on. But this time with a goofy large 4.5 core, JMF intake, big ass cams using the MHI flanged tube mani and the 3" downpipe with a dumped wastegate I keep for just such an occasion.

Like the general consensus around here about a DD with a big turbo, cams and big FMIC.

Which I have done. I have also had several stock DSMs and nearly everything in between.

There are many grey areas and, again I never said he needed it.

I said since he had it try it and report back. Not exactly controversial.

 

[4Lurker4]

No worries, all good Maybe I read too much into it.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

S'all good.

 

[Shamrokk]

Couple more bits of info. I do not have a/c on my car. The current piping off the intercooler doesn't go through the fender hole, rather straight to tb after coming around radiator. I do think it's a 1g style jpipe. It leans slightly toward the passenger side. Would need a 95 or 100 degree bend to go back toward driver side.I appreciate all the info here, it's giving me different perspectives than what I came to on my own.

 

[95 tsi 95 gst]

do u plan on building ## car up anymore like bigger turbo and etc

 

[95gst82]

Ive got a 95 gst and I got it the last owner gave me a front mount, the stock side mount was in shitty condition, after installing the front mount I noticed the car would get hot when driving, I got a stock side mount and the car would stay at normal operating temp the whole time, what can I do to help with air flow so I can use the front mount