94' Talon ES n/a

[xyexz]

Well I have just recieved my Talon ES, I have had the engine rebuilt at Jasper and I bought a rebuilt transmission through ebay from a 94' Talon ES that was rear-ended (bad for them, good for me).
I have been driving the car for about 2 weeks now and it runs beautifully, but of course I want more
I have been reading Dsm Forums for about 2 months seeing what everyone else has done and I am wanting to know where the best place is to start upgrading.

So far i'm thinking:
K&N Filter
Pacesetter Headers

and other than that I really don't know...i'm pretty new to the Talons and spend most of my time being a computer geek
I don't want to go nitrous and I have contemplated a turbo, but I really just want to see what the 4g63 can handle without these two things.

Thanks for any replies!
Brian

 

[teamslowdsm]

for an intake go to cosmoracing.com they have a decent intake and goto nopi.com and find an exhaust there or find pacesetters' official website for find an exhaust mani. but if you want to beef it up after exhause manifold go to you local muffler shop have them make you a custom catback and add a nice sporty muffler and you should be set.


p.s. don't forget a good set of plugs and wires.


Brian

 

[Thunderskull]

A GM MAF and MAF Translator are an excellent idea. Along with that you will want to invest in a datalogger.

 

[StreetSleeper34]

Sounds like I have nearly the exact same car as yours, go ahead and read my profile to see what I have done so far. A good place to get some performance parts for your n/t would be Punishment Racing. Read the tuning guide as well on the home page of DSMTuners to get a step by step idea of where to start. Good luck!

 

[Thunderskull]

Sounds like I have nearly the exact same car as yours, go ahead and read my profile to see what I have done so far. A good place to get some performance parts for your n/t would be Punishment Racing. Read the tuning guide as well on the home page of DSMTuners to get a step by step idea of where to start. Good luck!

You've gone further than me with the engine internals. That's my next step after I finish up the exhaust, to build a block and head from the ground up. Do you have anyway to read your counts of knock? And, have you dyno'd your vehicle? I'm going a similar route as you, and I'm curious to hear what kind of power you are making. You're right, punishment racing does have some interesting stuff. That's where I got my header,downpipe, and translator from.

 

[StreetSleeper34]

Do you have anyway to read your counts of knock? And, have you dyno'd your vehicle? I'm going a similar route as you, and I'm curious to hear what kind of power you are making.

No, I haven't added a knock sensor. I wasn't sure if that was necessary or not since I have no intention of going turbo. Haven't dynoed yet either, was going to wait until I get most of my mods completed. I didn't want to pay a fortune to get it tested for each mod that I added. Plus the closest dyno is nearly 2 hours away. But I am going to the track next weekend to see what times I can get so far. I am not expecting a whole lot yet. I'll be happy with high 15's. She hauls pretty good, but I have really no idea of where to set the cam gears to get the powerband right where I want it. It seems that with every mod I add, I have to completely retune it and that is time consuming and extremely frustrating. If I do post some good times at the track, I may get it dynoed to see where I am sitting and have them dial in the gears for me. I just want to get a foundation to start at and then go from there. My "butt dyno" is definately not trusting enough to tune it myself. :laugh: If I have a good day at the track, I will make a post to let everyone know how it's coming, if I don't, I'm just going to keep quite and wish I had a turbo :laugh:

 

[Thunderskull]

When you start going higher compression, you run the risk of detonation. I plan on going a bit higher than you with 11:1 compression. That's why I was asking about the knock sensor. As for tuning, I found a datalogger to be a really good investment. I'm ditching my gauges which really didn't tell me squat anyway. If you go to the track, let us know what you run.

 

[StreetSleeper34]

Getting a pocketlogger was actually my next planned investment. Any particular palm that you recommend using or that you have had the best experience with? Also, does the pocketlogger come with a list of factors to look for when tuning it? I just don't want to plug it in, get some readings and then have nothing to go by after that. Appreciate all the help with this. It's nice to see some fellow DSMer's out there that are going all motor, and more than just bolt-ons!

 

[xyexz]

Ok, i'll start checking into those parts/stores thanx a lot for the help teamslowdsm & Thunderskull. I should have known to start with the exhaust, everyone on here talks about the exhaust. Do you think dsm knew that there system was that restrictive?
Streetsleeper, I like the parts lists I have a lot to live up to...I was curious is yours a model ES as well? Strangely enough my car is a '94 as well, thought that was kinda freaky but since i'm on this forum with billions of other dsm owners it kind of took the awe out of it.
I had a bit of a scare this weekend when the ol' Talon wouldn't start, come to find out my Engine Coolant Sensor went bad, luckily I had one...
Also, where are your guys' cars idling, mine seems to be idling at around 700 when I went to turn it up some it really doesn't have any effect it seems like but it's annoying the heck out of me because every time I stop and then go it kind of kicks into gear, once i'm out of 1st everything is fine and dandy...any ideas much apprieciated.
Brian

 

[StreetSleeper34]

Streetsleeper, I like the parts lists I have a lot to live up to...I was curious is yours a model ES as well? Strangely enough my car is a '94 as well, thought that was kinda freaky but since i'm on this forum with billions of other dsm owners it kind of took the awe out of it.
Brian

Yeah, mine is an ES as well...red with the black top and sunroof. Bought it with 135,000 miles on it for peanuts, 6 months later EVERYTHING went wrong with it, so that is why I decided to go to the extreme with rebuilding it.

As far as ideling, I try to keep mine around 1000. It seemed like with every mod I added I needed to adjust one thing or another to get it to idle smooth and around my mark. For a while I had a really bad miss and it idled pretty rough, but since I added the MAFT and adjusting the timing a little, she's about perfect now. Depending on your mods so far, the only adjustments that you could really make would be to double check your timing, making sure it is at 5 degrees (this is the base setting, you can increase slightly with more mods...mine right now is at 7), then try adjusting your idle screw on your TB. Going counter clockwise will increase it, but too much will cause it to flutter and run shitty. Aside from your exhaust, increase your air coming in by getting an intake. There are a few out there depending on what you are looking for. I went with the Injen because I like the looks and it is designed for our engine bay. Then with the MAFT, I was able to extend the intake into my fender well to get direct cold air...HUGE gain! You can also do a 2g MAF transfer which will help with the restriction compared to our 1g MAF. Hopefully this helps, just keep in mind that every mod that you add needs to work in harmony with each other in order to see any gains. This is the frustrating part.

 

[xyexz]

Thanks everyone so far for all of the comments/tips, along with the "all-motor" upgrade path i have decided that i'm also going to bolt on a turbo but since my car "stock" doesn't come with a turbo, I am trying to find out what I will EXACTLY need to install the turbo. So if someone has done this please let me know what all is required, and please don't tell me to buy a factory turbo'd DSM, cuz I haven't posted this message to get responses of the obvious
Thanks in advance!
Brian

 

[na90dsm]

its expensive, over rated and not needed. build a n/a beast and be doen with it. its not as hard as you think.

if you swap to turbo you need to splice stuff in the harness, swap out the exhaust manifold, run turbo cams, boost guages, safc,datalkogger,resistor pack for the injectors, and a few more things,


go to n/t to turbo section and talk to mavisky. hes the man when it comes to that stuff. and hes been on here forever as well

 

[tbTalonES94]

Building an N/T can be fun if you have the time and money. IM sure if you really get into it you can do some good. You would need higher compression, more aggressive cams and probably a lot more. I had been trying to sqeeze out as much power as i could from my N/T but it just wasnt enough. I turboed my car in less the a week and a half and it runs like a champ. Granted i did stuff right and got NEW pistons (made for boost) and all the right stuff. THere is a lot to get: Turbo and lines, manifold, o2 housing, downpipe, turbo cams, intercooler and piping as well as BOV, knock sensor, turbo MAF, turbo ECU, 450cc injectors and resistor pack, and probably a few things i have left out but that is about the just of it. Don't let anyone tell you it isnt worth it because if you do it right it will be worth every penny and second! Ask StreetSleeper how much he has invested and how much i have and see how fast i pull on him But for a N/A his car is pretty cool. But soon as you hear that whistle and that pssshshhhh you will be forever in love! :laugh:

 

[StreetSleeper34]

Ask StreetSleeper how much he has invested and how much i have and see how fast i pull on him But for a N/A his car is pretty cool.

Too bad this is the wrong finger! :laugh: You just wait, I have a pretty good game plan of how I am going to get back into the game. Patience (and some money) is all I need, then I will be waiting for you at the finish line!

 

[xyexz]

HAHA, too bad that is the wrong finger, thats funny...
Ok so i'm saving up money right now and basically working on the inside of the car. I have added a toggle switch for my amp and sub which is so much fun to use. I'm a nerd I guess.
I have decided to get an EVO III big 16g Turbo, has anyone used one this one and if so any luck?
Thanks so much for all your guys' help!
Brian

 

[xyexz]

tbTalonES94, how much money did you spend overall and in what order did you do your mods in?
I hope those questions don't sound stupid...

 

[tbTalonES94]

If you asking how much i spent on my turbo project its under 1k. Of course i got some HELLA deals. I collected all the parts i could so i could put everything on in the less time possible (least downtime is key). First of all go for used parts unless you have a lot of money to play with. You really dont need a big16g unless you are going full internals. I just went with 2g turbo pistons that slap right on to the our 7bolt rods and are built for boost. They also only lower our compression ratio .5:1! Anyway you will need to have pretty much everything to turbo your car....you cant just put on some parts and wait to get more I will give you a complete list the best i can: 14b turbo, manifold, 02 housing, downpipe, all oil and water lines, an intercooler and piping, blow off valve (stock for these are cheap and they work well), knock sensor, turbo mas, turbo ECU, oil cooler of some sort....90 style is the best but its doesnt fit perfect and needs to be customized, turbo oil pan or customize yours for the return line from the turbo, 450cc injectors atleast (these are stock turbo manuals) along with injector resistor pack (little silver box on firewall), turbo fuel pump atleast, boost gauge, logger and probably an S-AFC or something else to control fuel, Oh you also will need a fuel pressure regulator unless you want to run ungodly rich. Now that i have said the basic things. I used a large front mount intercooler, 2g pistons, 255 fuel pump, OBX FPR, 2g MAF, HKS SSQ blow off valve, 2.5 full piping, 90 style cooler......now all this may seem expensive but believe me shop around and you will find deals. Doing everything by yourself is also a great way to keep the cost low! If you have any more questions or concerns just let me know. You might also want to talk to Mavisky..... turbo is the way to go despite these guys Lol just joking guys N/A is also very fun keep all the good work up and i hope you get a chance to atleast keep up with me StreetSleeper

 

[StreetSleeper34]

Lol just joking guys N/A is also very fun keep all the good work up and i hope you get a chance to atleast keep up with me StreetSleeper

If I can't get you n/a...I'll just have to get my "go baby go" button! :laugh:

 

[xyexz]

Wow tbTalonES94, thanks for that info! Very informative.
I started shopping online already just "window shopping" (if that can be done online) ...anyways, I found an all-you-need-to-bolt-on-a-turbo kit. Hehe.
I found it on ebay and then went to the actual website of the seller. http://www.devinemotorsports.com
There are turbo kits there for my car. Tell me what you guys think, because if it's good then I will save up the dough for it.
Also I've been reading up on carbon fiber hoods...would this be a good cut in weight and would I see much, if any, performance increases?
Thanks again for all the input!
Brian

PS: can't wait to hear the sound of a bov coming from my car, it might take a while for me to get there but I will hear it...

 

[tbTalonES94]

Hey i looked at that kit and it seems to be just another type of "universal kit". The reason why people dont make kits for out cars is because you cant get around the MAF without standalone (or the turbo maf), Intercooler piping can be difficult to run, And that MAP sensor better be damn good so that non-turbo ecu can handle boost! And for 2700 dollars man you could put together one HELL of a kit. Trust me go by piece by piece and you will get such a better deal. Think about it. You will be paying 2700 dollars and only be able to push MAYBE 10 psi with those stock pistons and be reliable. Im tellin you man if your going to waste 2700 dollars then stay N/A and make a damn beast or piece together a turbo kit that will make your car look like stock tsi form....in other words get a good intercoooler....NOT a T25!, different pistons, an awesome clutch, awesome cams, turbo ecu and the rest of the works! Do not go buy a supposably "full" kit. I would e-mail them and make them give you a list of absolutly every part that they will be sending you and how they say it will work on the 90-94 DSMs! Good luck...look if you need any help collecting the parts let me know.

P.S: hey they said nothing about a clutch or a fuel pump? Where does that come into the complete kit price of 2700 dollars??? What about cams because those non-turbo cams arent built for boost? You gettin the idea here?

 

[xyexz]

haha, I'm glad I asked you guys about this kit... it seemed too good to be true. It does make sense about those missing parts you mentioned and the ordeal about the cams, I was too excited to notice .
I'm gonna email them about this kit and ask them for a list of every part like you suggested and then i'll ask about performance on a 90-94 DSM. I'll post back here with their reply.
Punishment racing has some nice looking headers and CAI for good prices, any comments
Thanx again to everyone who replies,
Brian

 

[tbTalonES94]

If you are going to stay N/A then go with punishment racing's header and be sure to get their GM MAF-T and then get a MAF and put that filter in the damn bumper! THis will free up lots of lost power and it sounds soo incredibly awesome!! Streetsleeper's car sounds soo sweet with that GM Maf and a 9" cone in the bumper! It is very intimidating.........if you dont have a little hair dryer under your hood . Once you get that list let me know and i will tell you what you dont need/need to add and if you really want to purchase it then look around at what you can buy N/A with all that money! Think everything over 50 times then you might make the right decision

 

[xyexz]

Ok heres what i've decided to do...
I have decided to get some wheels and tires and a CAI with MAF translator and GM MAF
Then i'm gonna save up the dough in the winter and in the spring, i'm going turbo.
I have decided to go only 14b for now so I can see what my engine can take.
So my parts list:
14b turbo
punishment manifold
punishment 02 housing
downpipe
all oil and water lines
2g blow off valve
MAF-T w/ GM MAF
oil cooler
turbo oil pan
boost gauge
2g pistons

...will i need an intercooler (and piping), i've heard that 14b's don't need them, is this true?
If their's anything wrong with my parts or if i'm missing anything let me know!
Thanks and i'll see ya in the spring!

 

[Thunderskull]

Do a search. This has been discussed into the dirt.

 

[tbTalonES94]

Yes you need an intercooler. And why not because the stock sidemounts are a dime a dozen! You can use stock piping or throw together some metal piping pretty easy! Don't get a MAF-T for the N/A if you plan on going turbo because you will either need the turbo translator or the turbo maf which would ditch your non-turbo translator. If you are going to go turbo then just leave your car stock N/A and save up more money. There's no sense of spending money on something you arent going to use in the future. If you are really serious about going turbo then just stick with buying turbo parts. By the way dont get a 2g BOV. They suck. Just get a 1g BOV. If you are having problems finding one i have one. I also have a stock sidemount but its kinda beat up. Just let me know.
Trevor