650s ok for 50 trim?

[FastGS-T]

Ok im rebuilding my engine, and I sold my Evo3 16g and plan on using a 50trim with my new setup. Will the 650cc injectors I have push this turbo? or will I need bigger injectors? I also have a 190 fuel pump, so im assuming ill need to get a 255 also.

here is a link to my rebuild so far :
http://www.cardomain.com/id/shallowshowcase/

 

[itola]

650's should be plenty and the 255 is a very good idea for a 50 trim. Do you have a fuel pressure regulator and gauge. If not that is another must.

 

[dsm-onster]

According to the DSM_Tuning_Sheet_v2.1.xls found elseware on this forum, at 80% idc these can only flow enough fuel for 399 crank horsepower w/ stock fuel pressure. That's with a good 11:1 a/f ratio tune. Your quite a bit more. 50 trim can do more. If you go over the 80% idc, over time you will burn them up. Instead of ruining them, sell them. The 650s were plenty for the EVO3. You'll need atleast 750s to really get what you paid for out of a 50-trim.

You have DSMLink. Get a set of 1000cc rc engineering injectors off of ebay and never upgrade injectors again. You'll get them for the same price as 750s or 850s.

And I agree. The 190 is not enough. But going to a 255, you'll need a AFPR so that you can bring your fuel pressure down. As it will overrun your stock fpr.

 

[DGajre777]

I know that CanadianTSi runs a 190 fuel pump with 650cc injectors on a 50 trim turbo at 22psi. I don't see why you need a 225 or bigger injectors unless you plan on rebuilding your block to go for 25+ psi.

So yes, a 190 IS enough. You do NOT need a 255, you do NOT need an AFPR. You don't need DSMLink, unless you have a boatload of cash sitting around to spend on your car!

A 50 trim is not that big compared to an Evo III 16G turbo.

 

[javier347]

I will be using 850cc since im planning on running about 25 psi on pumpgas.

 

[andytalon]

Completely agreed, I wouldn't think twice, why work your injectors when you can get larger ones like 1000cc and run them low at the same cost. You have the mods to do it, why not????? It would be stupid not to. Just my thought

According to the DSM_Tuning_Sheet_v2.1.xls found elseware on this forum, at 80% idc these can only flow enough fuel for 399 crank horsepower w/ stock fuel pressure. That's with a good 11:1 a/f ratio tune. Your quite a bit more. 50 trim can do more. If you go over the 80% idc, over time you will burn them up. Instead of ruining them, sell them. The 650s were plenty for the EVO3. You'll need atleast 750s to really get what you paid for out of a 50-trim.

You have DSMLink. Get a set of 1000cc rc engineering injectors off of ebay and never upgrade injectors again. You'll get them for the same price as 750s or 850s.

And I agree. The 190 is not enough. But going to a 255, you'll need a AFPR so that you can bring your fuel pressure down. As it will overrun your stock fpr.

 

[dsm-onster]

I know that CanadianTSi runs a 190 fuel pump with 650cc injectors on a 50 trim turbo at 22psi. I don't see why you need a 225 or bigger injectors unless you plan on rebuilding your block to go for 25+ psi.

A 50-trim will support 450 wheel horsepower with an ameture tune and stock cams on pump gas. I'm sorry but no evo3 has gone much over 400whp. SBR did it w/ he!!a cams and race gas and a flawless tune. This feat is a testamony to their skills as engine builders and tuners. They have gone alot farther w/ a 50-trim.

QUOTE=DGajre777]So yes, a 190 IS enough. You do NOT need a 255, you do NOT need an AFPR. You don't need DSMLink, unless you have a boatload of cash sitting around to spend on your car![/QUOTE]
You will blow your car up if you do NOT get more fuel to run where a 50trim purchase is meritted. Why is he getting a 50 trim, if he's going to run it at EVO3 horsepower levels? Research where the 50-trim (RS49, FP GREEN, etc.) has taken folks. He should have not sold his EVO3 if was not going to upgrade is fuel system. He!! a stock fuel pump and stock 450s are enough for a gt40R at 12-15 psi. . .

A 50 trim is not that big compared to an Evo III 16G turbo.

Is a 20g not that much different from an EVO3

For clarification:

Straight from Forced Performance:

FP GREEN (Their 50-trim)

The Green turbo is a Mitsubishi/Garrett hybrid, with a compressor flow of 730cfm, and around 500hp.​

The EVO3 is rated for 580 cfm. See stealth316.com.

Don't spread this misinformation.

 

[CanadianTSi]

I did run a 190 on stock wiring and 650's with my 50 trim at 24psi on pump gas all last year.

We'll see how far the pump and injectors take me now with the addition of the cams/SMIM and other goodies...

 

[dsm-onster]

don't see why you need a 225 or bigger injectors unless you plan on rebuilding your block to go for 25+ psi.

Many, many guys have gone over that w/ stock 7-bolt internals.

In example:

ShapeGSX. He runs 30 psi on his stock 7-bolt and evo3 16g.

He's also at 84% IDC with 660cc injectors on the SMALLER evo3 turbo. See http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1260591&postcount=27.

 

[EvolvingGST]

When I first bought my 50Trim it was the 650 injectors and 255 were recommended for the turbo set up. If you are running a DSMLink why not go higher and work your injectors less?

But I stuck with a SAFC II so if I go anything bigger than 680s I will need a DSMlink.. I am also getting my car dyno tuned when it is done. But I think a 190 rewired and 650s will do fine for what you need it to do. UNLESS you want to go crazy then go higher...

 

[dsm-onster]

I did run a 190 on stock wiring and 650's with my 50 trim at 24psi on pump gas all last year.

We'll see how far the pump and injectors take me now with the addition of the cams/SMIM and other goodies...

What were your IDCs?

Would you say that you've reached the full potential of that turbo w/ stock cams and intake mani?

Keep us informed. I'm concerned about this guy getting all the potential out of this turbo... As he gave up a turbo that Shape used to pushed his 660s to over 80% idc.

 

[dsm-onster]

When I first bought my 50Trim it was the 650 injectors and 255 were recommended for the turbo set up. If you are running a DSMLink why not go higher and work your injectors less?

But I stuck with a SAFC II so if I go anything bigger than 680s I will need a DSMlink.. I am also getting my car dyno tuned when it is done. But I think a 190 rewired and 650s will do fine for what you need it to do. UNLESS you want to go crazy then go higher...

Why get injectors that are good for about 400crank horsepower w/out running into high IDC and get a turbo that has pushed 450+ wheel horsepower? I am just mentioning getting bigger injectors because he can get the horsepower to max out his 650s fror the EVO3 that he got rid of . Why did he get rid of it, unless he's going beyond this?

. . . Do you guys see what page I'm on?

He asked will 650s will be enough to "push" this turbo. I assume he wants to extract the full potential out of a 50-trim...

P.S. EvolvingGST, I find it interesting that you have OEM big 16G on your wishlist. Does your AGP RS49 have too slow of a spool for your taste? What's the reasoning behind this?

 

[EvolvingGST]

Why get injectors that are good for about 400crank horsepower w/out running into high IDC and get a turbo that has pushed 450+ wheel horsepower? I am just mentioning getting bigger injectors because he can get the horsepower to max out his 650s fror the EVO3 that he got rid of . Why did he get rid of it, unless he's going beyond this?

. . . Do you guys see what page I'm on?

He asked will 650s will be enough to "push" this turbo. I assume he wants to extract the full potential out of a 50-trim...

P.S. EvolvingGST, I find it interesting that you have OEM big 16G on your wishlist. Does your AGP RS49 have too slow of a spool for your taste? What's the reasoning behind this?

Hahah No no I just don't update that much... The spool on my 50trim is awesome. I did that wishlist when I was new to the scene. You know now I actually have another project DSM to work on... I am converting my GST into a daily driver and building a block for a TSI AWD and moving the 50trim over and such...

 

[CanadianTSi]

What were your IDCs?

Would you say that you've reached the full potential of that turbo w/ stock cams and intake mani?

Keep us informed. I'm concerned about this guy getting all the potential out of this turbo... As he gave up a turbo that Shape used to pushed his 660s to over 80% idc.

Not sure on IDC's as you can't log that on a 2g...

I'd say I was pretty much at the full potential for pump gas and all stock motor down to the TB, If I remember correctly I was seeing right around 40lbs/min max airflow. The cams and SMIM should bump that up nicely. Also I'm about to install my New AEM wideband so I can watch that and see if i'm running out of injector and or pump up top.

 

[DGajre777]

Don't spread this misinformation.

Allow me to clarify, On a street setup running 22-23 psi on a 50 trim turbo, you don't need a 255 or AFPR or DSMlink. If you want to max out the 50 trim on a built block running 25+ psi, sure you'll need more fuel than 190 and 660cc injectors can supply.

Not spreading any misinformation, I assumed that the original poster was looking for a daily driver street setup not a race/drag car. My bad.

 

[dsm-onster]

Hahah No no I just don't update that much... The spool on my 50trim is awesome. I did that wishlist when I was new to the scene. You know now I actually have another project DSM to work on... I am converting my GST into a daily driver and building a block for a TSI AWD and moving the 50trim over and such...

HAHA! I'm dropping my setup into an awd shell too. FWD was a great challange. But it's time I move on and shutup the yipping masses where I live. It's so funny. We can get a good awd tranny and body for the price of a Queef, er Quaife.

 

[dsm-onster]

Not sure on IDC's as you can't log that on a 2g...

I'd say I was pretty much at the full potential for pump gas and all stock motor down to the TB, If I remember correctly I was seeing right around 40lbs/min max airflow. The cams and SMIM should bump that up nicely. Also I'm about to install my New AEM wideband so I can watch that and see if i'm running out of injector and or pump up top.

Awesome numbers . I was jsut trying to say that you probably were pushing the 650s to a point most wouldn't want to see. As 40 lbs/min is obviously less than a stones throw away w/ a 50trim. I'll bet a SMIM and cams really wake'er up. Look at what DSMJim did w/ a 50 trim and stock cams. He shaved 5 tenths w/ a Magnus SMIM alone.

 

[dsm-onster]

Allow me to clarify, On a street setup running 22-23 psi on a 50 trim turbo, you don't need a 255 or AFPR or DSMlink. If you want to max out the 50 trim on a built block running 25+ psi, sure you'll need more fuel than 190 and 660cc injectors can supply.

Not spreading any misinformation, I assumed that the original poster was looking for a daily driver street setup not a race/drag car. My bad.

I'm a turd . Ithought you were saying that a 255hp pump and injectors larger than 650s are not needed to realize the potential of a 50-trim. No biggie. We're all thinking the same here. Just wording it differently.

You know, now that I think about it. He surely should get a set of ARP head studs though.

 

[WhiteKnightfwd]

Im currently running 650's with a walbro 255 and the link. I plan on pushing my 50trim as far as I can. I also have hks 272s and the magnus intake manifold. Still breaking in my new shortblock so Ill post up 500 miles later how my 650s hold up. Im also still using my virgen 2g maf.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Many, many guys have gone over that w/ stock 7-bolt internals.

In example:

ShapeGSX. He runs 30 psi on his stock 7-bolt and evo3 16g.

Actually, I have a 6-bolt with big rods and 2G pistons and a 1G head/intake manifold. Built it with my own two hands. Head gasket is stock with ARP head studs.

The rest is right, though.