5th gear & reverse not engaging, transmission case questions

[1Gina2G]

Alright so this is a rebuilt 2g awd transmission filled with 80W-90 gear oil, first drive it goes through all the gears except fith, was hoping after everything got warmed up that atleast reverse would magically slip back in but that didn't happen.

Checked if it was the reverse switch, backed it out all the way just to be sure, still can't engage to 5th/reverse at all.

I understand the very most back peice on the transmission holds 5th & reverse, and it's also only coincidental that I had to take that peice off before because it had a leaking crack.

There is a black shifter rod piece at the top left area that's supposed to match up with the peice in the case, must not have lined up. This was done with the trans in neutral, would it have been better to put the trans in 5th with the peice off, to get the rod to extend more, or anything else I can do, to make sure its lined up this time. Really hard to see down there.

 

[pauleyman]

that black plastic piece isn't a rail. It's an oil guide and it does not move. You don't need to do anything to get that rail to line up. If you have the wrong end cover it won't line up no matter what. That still won't affect 5/R engagement.

 

[Scoobystyl]

You said you replaced the endcase on the transmission? check and see if they are the same part number, you will get this exact problem if they are a different part because the 5th gear/reverse shift fork hits the case

 

[pauleyman]

Given my last post I'd like to hear more about this fork hitting the case. As far as I can tell only the rail guide changed and the casting is the same and a parts number cross reference seems to support this. I've not seen what you're describing. Are you talking about the rail/hug hitting the oil guide plate that is attached the end casting?

 

[1Gina2G]

Given my last post I'd like to hear more about this fork hitting the case. As far as I can tell only the rail guide changed and the casting is the same and a parts number cross reference seems to support this. I've not seen what you're describing. Are you talking about the rail/hug hitting the oil guide plate that is attached the end casting?

Thanks for the help. I was sure that I had examined & compared both the peices prior to installation, didn't check any numbers out, just looked like it was the same piece, for perfect fitment. Definatley no different on the outside, inside also appeared to be the exact same. Again no numbers were checked, I don't remember seeing any on the cases.

Also - the black rail peice was not changed, or touched for that matter, I just simply replaced the transmission case from being cracked, put the wavy ring the right way, along with the small gear that pops out in front of it.

I just assumed the black rail in the top left area was the peice that moved the gears, no idea about the insides. So that peice has nothing to do with my engagement issue? It still should line up with the peice in the case right?

It seems that the metal peice, bonded to the case, that the wavy ring sits on, does not move or rotate at all, when I checked it out, which was the same for the orginal peice that was cracked.

Would it be bad to engage into 5th or reverse, with the case off, to see if the case was the issue? What should I be checking?

 

[pauleyman]

That "small gear" is the reverse synchro. If you take the case off you need to know a few things. THe bolts hold on the end case AND the intermediate bearing section. If you intend on moving anything I'd put a few of those bolts back on with some washers underneath or you risk breaking the seal on the bearing case. If you operate the 5/r gearset hold the reverse synchro up there while you do it or you could pop the synchro keys out of place as they ride in the grooves in the synchro. You can see the rail plainly on the side of the fork and see if it's moving freely or not. Has it ever shifted into 5/r? If you take off the 5/r assembly for any reason be careful you do not let the rail rotate as it can come off the shift selector inside. It can be reattached without transmission disassembly but it's a bi***. It's like tryiing to fish a hook onto something through a hole in the dark.

 

[1Gina2G]

That "small gear" is the reverse synchro. If you take the case off you need to know a few things. THe bolts hold on the end case AND the intermediate bearing section. If you intend on moving anything I'd put a few of those bolts back on with some washers underneath or you risk breaking the seal on the bearing case. If you operate the 5/r gearset hold the reverse synchro up there while you do it or you could pop the synchro keys out of place as they ride in the grooves in the synchro. You can see the rail plainly on the side of the fork and see if it's moving freely or not. Has it ever shifted into 5/r? If you take off the 5/r assembly for any reason be careful you do not let the rail rotate as it can come off the shift selector inside. It can be reattached without transmission disassembly but it's a bi***. It's like tryiing to fish a hook onto something through a hole in the dark.

When you say the 5/R assembley, do you mean the outer case itself, or taking off the actual gears. I should only have to take off the case to adjust what I need to adjust right? Just clarifying.

Also, a question about the intermediate case. I probably atleast weakend the seal the last time I pulled the end case off, but nothings leaking. Worried about it coming loose. I don't know what you mean by putting some bolts& washers back on, since you'd want all the bolts off it seems since these peices crack easier then anything. weak aluminum. Anyways, if the seal were to break, wouldn't be just a matter or re-sealing that case as well? Or do things come loose inside the trans? I understand a 'Press' is used for assembling these transmissions, not sure if anything would pop, or 'spring loose' if that peice pulled back that inch or so.

So what I'm looking for, is a fork that is between the 2 gears? I don't remember everything down there, since all I did was replace the case. And basically, I'll have to have someone else either hold the reverse syncro in place, while the other attempts to move into 5/R correct? The car has not tried 5th or reverse gear at all, new rebuild, just did the first drive this week and today even.

 

[pauleyman]

When you say the 5/R assembley, do you mean the outer case itself, or taking off the actual gears. I should only have to take off the case to adjust what I need to adjust right? Just clarifying.

The actual gears. There is nothing to adjust. It's either going to work or it isn't. You may spot your problem as soon as you have the case off again. You said the end case was cracked. What cracked it? Did you tighten down the nut that holds the 5/r gearset?

Also, a question about the intermediate case. I probably atleast weakend the seal the last time I pulled the end case off, but nothings leaking. Worried about it coming loose. I don't know what you mean by putting some bolts& washers back on, since you'd want all the bolts off it seems since these peices crack easier then anything. weak aluminum

Weak aluminum? Um...ok. Remove the end case and then take a couple bolts and put them back in without the end case. You'll need a few washers to take up the slack where the end case was. This will keep you from breaking the seal on the next piece if you start moving things around on the shafts.
If you break the seal you'll have to clean it all up and reseal.

So what I'm looking for, is a fork that is between the 2 gears? I don't remember everything down there, since all I did was replace the case. And basically, I'll have to have someone else either hold the reverse syncro in place, while the other attempts to move into 5/R correct? The car has not tried 5th or reverse gear at all, new rebuild, just did the first drive this week and today even.

You'll see the fork but there are not two gears. Only the 5th gear. The reverse synchro is there but the actual reverse gear is inside the tranny elsewhere. Who did the rebuild, what was done and when did it break the case? Before the rebuild? If that's the case sounds like somebody didn't didn't know how to rebuild it. You do not need a friend to hold that synchro. Just hold it and reach up with your other hand and shift it by hand.

 

[1Gina2G]

The actual gears. There is nothing to adjust. It's either going to work or it isn't. You may spot your problem as soon as you have the case off again. You said the end case was cracked. What cracked it? Did you tighten down the nut that holds the 5/r gearset?

The case was probably cracked (smallest crack ever literally tip of the fins) before I had it, had it rebuilt it right away by dogbox racing, for a stage 2 build. This company no longer exists

here's my thread when I first took off the case, to see if JB weld would work but it didnt so I found one from a junkyard that was new compared to mine.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/448586-cracked-fin-transmission.html

You'll see the fork but there are not two gears. Only the 5th gear. The reverse synchro is there but the actual reverse gear is inside the tranny elsewhere. Who did the rebuild, what was done and when did it break the case? Before the rebuild? If that's the case sounds like somebody didn't didn't know how to rebuild it. You do not need a friend to hold that synchro. Just hold it and reach up with your other hand and shift it by hand.

So the really round thing that is at the bottom, is the reverse syncro? I thought you said above that the gear that pops out when you take the case off, is the reverse syncro? I forgot you can shift directly at the trans, but what's the pattern for reverse, I just know neutral is center and up & down.

I thought I read a cupple threads also that the 5th gear & reverse were in the same area, must of read wrong So basically it may be possible to fix my 5th gear, but probably not my reverse?

This is the gear that pops out.

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I'm ready to get this case taken off again...just wanna know what everything is first haha but I know some pics with it off may help, hopefully it won't be a pain to figure out. It just sucks that I don't have a warranty anymore either.

So basically nothing I can adjust once the case is open right? All I can do is see if it'll engage with the case off, holding the reverse syncro in place while attempting to engage correct? I plan on doing this this weekend at the latest. Any other tips/ advice would be great

 

[pauleyman]

Yes that is the synchro. I may have called it a gear, you would have to infer what I meant. There are no loose parts in the tranny except for right there at the end case. Nothing just pops off unless you've removed something else first, a snap ring bolts etc etc.

 

[1Gina2G]

for your best guess, what would you suspect my problem is? what is most likely not lining up inside the trans?

there wasn't any interference while installing the new case, nor was there any grinding / bad noises. Half of me doesn't want to take the case off, just for the fact that I don't know what I would / could do differently compared to last time. besides moving the shifter around with the case off, while holding the syncro in place.

I didn't touch ANYTHING last time in hopes of not.disturbing the way things were put in place, but sure enough, no reverse or 5th.

 

[pauleyman]

Wong case and the oil guide is hitting the hub. Seems unlikelyy though as you should still get 5th. Dont know why you're concerned. Case removal is nothing. Just do it and have a look around. How it all works should be obvious if you just look at it.

 

[Scoobystyl]

Take the endcase off and see if it will go into reverse and 5th, then like i stated earlier check the part number and see if it matches the other one you have, if it doesnt thats your problem, with the other endcase the 5th shifter fork actually hits the endcase not allowing it to shift

 

[1Gina2G]

is it possible to buy the transmission pieces new from a dealership or anywhere else besides a junkyard?

 

[pauleyman]

I qnt to hear more on the endcase. Ive taken apart lots and have several laying about. The cases look identical to me except for the oil guide.

 

[Scoobystyl]

I qnt to hear more on the endcase. Ive taken apart lots and have several laying about. The cases look identical to me except for the oil guide.

Look on the inside where the 5th gear syncro is one is case more rounded to go around the gear the other is slanted and comes inwards.
I found this out last week when i replaced my endcase because my oil drain plug was stripped and instead of tapping it out i just replaced it with another endcase from a tranny i had laying around, and same thing happened no 5th or reverse, and upon inspection with no bolts in the endcase shifting to reverse it pushes the case out.
Im not sure when ill be going back out to my shop but ill remember to snap a pic of the two

 

[1Gina2G]

okay well I called all the transmission shops for dsms and the peices are very well available new. Hopefully it's as simple as replacing the case, as there's no telling if it would have done this with the old case.

Taking off the case right after this post, taking a bunch of pictures too since there IS apparently some numbers to go by inside.

I'll post back later

 

[pauleyman]

Why wouldnt you have fifth since the hub travels inward?

 

[1Gina2G]

okay so heres how it went. I had a friend with me, because I wanted to make sure I was getting to the right gear, by shifting in the car. Held the reverse syncro in place, while I tried out 5th and reverse, felt exactly the same. We checked out which peices were moving which ways and nothing appeared to be 'jamming' or not moving freely, attempting to shift into it with light/regular strength. I told my friend to watch the shaft on the shifter fork, while I attempted to move in R/5 and, I told him I was going to put more force to it then usual, or atleast alot more then what the other gears take, sure eough it poped into 5th! tried reverse the same way and it poped in as well! tried out the other gears, still working fine as well as neutral.

I think it only goes to reverse, if you're coming from neutral, did not shift from 5TH to Reverse, probably a safety feature.

Transmission shop gave me the serial number for the case peice that SHOULD match year 95 which is MD741185-, and 2 other years which are unknown but not 95, as a possible 'wrong fitment part'. numbers MD-735344 & 735345, sure enough the case from the junkyard is NOT year 95, but MD735344, but out of curiosity, I bolted it back up with out the RTV, to see if it would not engage again, but it still engages actually! It's just a little harder but honestly the first 2 pops really felt like something stuck broke free.

I'm also positive that I tried to pop it in just as hard into 5th & R before I took of the case tonight, and at NO POINT did I ever use all my strength for 5th and R

does it sound safe to RTV the case back on and see if it engages in drive?

 

[slow91]

this happen to me once and both of the nuts, came loose, the counter gear and the nut that holds the gaer on. have u checked that??

 

[1Gina2G]

okay well since no one said anything, and I knew that the gears were in engaging with the case temporaily on, like I mentioned above, so I went ahead and sealed it and gave it the following day to dry..put the 80w-90 in there this afternoon and gave it an hour or so while I was messing the powersteering fluid & coolant. No drips.

car will now engage in 5th & Reverse! tried it before and after my second drive on this rebuild, which is my first. thanks for the help everyone.