2G -5F, car just cranks over - dark smoke, batt good

[Korndogg]

hey all

i'd really appreciate help with this one

'96 talon TSI wouldn't start today. it was between -5 and -10 degrees.

the car just cranks over, and every once in a while it will kick up a bit. i saw the tach get to a bit above 500rpm once, but it was VERY brief. the car doesn't run at all then die.. it just kicks a little bit while trying to crank it.

at first i thought it might be the battery, so i took it to autozone and they charged and tested it and said it was fine. it's an everstart that's rated at 875CCA - 1000CA.

anyway, i ended up jumping my car to another that was running while i cranked it and it acts the same, so i know i'm getting good power.

yesterday i put a full tank of 93 octane in and then drove 75 miles on the interstate. i put some dry gas / gas antifreeze stuff in today when i couldn't start my car.

the car coughs almost black smoke while you crank it - mostly when it "kicks". (no cat on exhaust)

if i crank the car for long enough.. 7-10 seconds maybe.. i can hear a weird.... clunking? ticking? strange noise anyway. it soudns almost like it's coming from under the floor of the rear passenger seat.. like where a pass would put their feet on the rear/pass side of car. i don't know if maybe that's the sound of my fuel pump doing something? maybe my line is frozen up? but then would the car still belch black smoke?

anyway.. i would really appreciate help with this one.

let me know if you need info

thanks a lot guys


edit: i was trying to get the car started for 3 hours today so i could go home... to give you an idea how much time i've spent cranking on it.

edit2:
oh, and i've had this similar problem 2 other times this season.. the coldest days really -below -10. it wouldn't start with my remote starter, so i had to go out and give it 2-3 long cranks before it would start. and it was then too pushing some real dark smoke while cranking and then also for a short while after it started.

 

[Korndogg]

hey guys
i just checked my plugs and they were black and soaked.. so i replaced them

question though

i hooked one up to the wire and then grounded the housing and had a friend crank it and i can barely see a little orange spark...

if i take a piece of wire and run it from the coil pack to the intake manifold i get a nice big spark.. up to 1/2" or so and orange...

what do you guys think? normal?

 

[Musashi450]

Awsome so we now have a reason that its not running. Here's the order I would go in. First, get new plugs. I think they will come gapped at .036. Stick with this for now and see if your car starts, if not, move on to the wires. I'm sure their is a way to test to see if your wires are good but I can't recall it off the top of my head. If that doesn't work then your coil is bad. Double check to make sure that your getting spark on all spark plugs too and not just 2 of the 4 while your at it, as that would indicate a problem with the cam angle sensor (and on our years they are a PITA to get off)

 

[tylerk]

Did it start up after you replaced the plugs?

 

[Korndogg]

MY CAR STARTED! sooo happy!!

hey guys
today i pulled my old brp6es, and they were a bit dark and very wet.. so i bought so new ones and installed them.. no change... but i hung out with a friend and just before school it was 40º or so (first time above freezing all week) and it started! idled very rough for a little bit but then smoothed out. from inside, you could hear a sound like water through radiator pipes.. so i'm thinking maybe my fuel line is frozen and has restrictions? maybe? which is weird, because i was getting a LOT of fuel...
anyway..

i just got back from school and got it goin again.. when i rev the engine, the engine comes back down and dips lower than usual (below idle). it also occationally backfires when i do this (which i've NEVER heard my car do.. ever)

anyway, thanks for all the help guys.. it's gotta be something related to frozen fuel supply..

 

[Musashi450]

If you could smell fuel and your plugs were wet, you didn't have a fuel restriction. Also the freezing point of fuel is pretty low. Because of your spark color I'm inclined to think (well I'm certain) that by changing your plugs you fixed the problem. About it not starting up right away, that is most likely because you had to much fuel in your cylinders would be my guess. What I would be interested in, is finding out the difference between the gap that you had on your spark plugs and that gap that came on the ones you bought. Your backfire is due to excess fuel. Did it backfire right after it started up, or does it continue to backfire? If it continues, your not getting complete combustion (do you have an afc, upgraded injector, increased fuel flow?) You say its never done it before, this could be many things. If you've reset the computer, your computer is going to have to relearn your fuel curves in which case it may be dumping excess fuel and causing the backfire. This could also be because your still not getting a strong enough spark (again maybe play with the gap)

 

[Bostedquest]

If you are dealing with temps that low gas anti-freeze is a good thing to invest in. A small chunk (2-3MM) of ice can jam the fuel pump, or worse, partially block causing low PSI.

I honestly suggest the gas anti-freeze when a vehicle will see temps below 10*F for any length of time 2-5 days.

 

[Korndogg]

hey guys
just filling in.. the backfiring stopped that night, and so did the "water through the pipes" sound. the car is running very very well right now. i even replaced the fuel filter last night (What a bi*** that is).

i have also been using gas antifreeze and will do so as long as the temps are staying below 0ºF

thanks for all the help