550cc enough for eIII16g at 20psi

[92GSXBaltimore]

whoops..., i ment VIII

 

[kgtalon95]

An S-AFC and 650's can go faster than most people on this board ever will.

Just get the 650's and be done with it.

Very true, my buddy had seimadeka 780's and an afc on his 14b and that car absolutley flew!! Granted his timing advance at WOT was 28

Piggybacking makes a ton of power.......if you know how to use it

 

[daren_p]

Very true, my buddy had seimadeka 780's and an afc on his 14b and that car absolutley flew!! Granted his timing advance at WOT was 28

Piggybacking makes a ton of power.......if you know how to use it

Holly, 28 deg at wot, how did he not knock? Low boost or tonns of fuel

 

[Stoner]

Holly, 28 deg at wot, how did he not knock? Low boost or tonns of fuel

Some cars love timing and some don't. That is one of the reasons some have been effective with a piggyback and large injectors and some haven't.

So far I have found that my car likes mid-high timing and pretty lean mixture and a lot of boost but that same combination may not work on another guys engine and may cause it to go boom.

 

[rowlex]

Get 650's. I thought I was going to keep mine around 20 psi too. Im now in the market for a boost gauge that will read to 35psi. And I upgraded to 780's.

IIRC on my e316g at 19-20psi i was hitting 70% duty cycle on my 650's. If you can avoid going over 80% I would suggest doing so (ex. buying larger injectors)

EDIT: this was probably on a really bad tune as well. I only had the e316g for a few weeks before I upgraded to something with a little more bite. So I didn't tune it much.

 

[BGGSTin]

My 550's didn't seem to be flowing 550cc's, more like 500cc's and thats why I made the statement about some injectors dont flow what they are advertised at in my original post. If you are talking about my PTE 880's the deadtime is 300 usec with a global at -42 which makes them more like 775's but that is more than enough fuel.

And global setting is the one that determines how much the injectors are flowing not deadtime.

Yeah but I deadtime affects the global settings, at least when I'm playing with DSM Link it does. Isn't dead time the nano seconds between pulses? I'm not sure.

Anyways, I have FIC 550's and I'm pulling 15% global and on the rpm map up to an additional 45% by 6000 rpm. I was confused that I needed to pull so much fuel for it to run good, but it does.

 

[rowlex]

Anyways, I have FIC 550's and I'm pulling 15% global and on the rpm map up to an additional 45% by 6000 rpm. I was confused that I needed to pull so much fuel for it to run good, but it does.

What boost are you running and whats your injector duty cycle?

 

[Boiler2]

550's should be enough for most people with the EVOIII. I had to bump up my fuel pressure on my 550's with my setup on the EVOIII as I was running out of room. This by the way is another option ... bumping up the fuel pressure if your system can handle it. Can make the 550's more like 580's or 600's. You need an AFPR though which depending on your goals, you may need down the road anyway. With the 190 you are fine though.

 

[Stoner]

Yeah but I deadtime affects the global settings, at least when I'm playing with DSM Link it does. Isn't dead time the nano seconds between pulses? I'm not sure.

Anyways, I have FIC 550's and I'm pulling 15% global and on the rpm map up to an additional 45% by 6000 rpm. I was confused that I needed to pull so much fuel for it to run good, but it does.

Adjusting the deadtime in DSM Link does not effect the global setting. And yes deadtime has something to do with how long it takes for the injectors to open and close.

 

[96whitetalon]

Get the 650 injectors, I had 550 and they didn't cut it for me. BTW I have big16g and FMIC ect ect....

 

[marq95gst]

550's should be enough for most people with the EVOIII. I had to bump up my fuel pressure on my 550's with my setup on the EVOIII as I was running out of room. This by the way is another option ... bumping up the fuel pressure if your system can handle it. Can make the 550's more like 580's or 600's. You need an AFPR though which depending on your goals, you may need down the road anyway. With the 190 you are fine though.

Couldn't one just get the 580cc injectors?

 

[Boiler2]

Couldn't one just get the 580cc injectors?

yes

 

[BGGSTin]

What boost are you running and whats your injector duty cycle?

I'm going up to 29 psi at points, 21-25 psi all time. I'm not sure of the duty cycle because DSM Link isn't logging any of that right (duty and airflow).

 

[rowlex]

I'm going up to 29 psi at points, 21-25 psi all time. I'm not sure of the duty cycle because DSM Link isn't logging any of that right (duty and airflow).

ok, thats because your running the gm maft setup. That thing is incredibly mis-calibrated. At some points I am pulling 21% of airflow to get it right.

 

[Generation X]

550's should be enough for most people with the EVOIII. I had to bump up my fuel pressure on my 550's with my setup on the EVOIII as I was running out of room. This by the way is another option ... bumping up the fuel pressure if your system can handle it. Can make the 550's more like 580's or 600's. You need an AFPR though which depending on your goals, you may need down the road anyway. With the 190 you are fine though.

I agree... I run a base fuel pressure on my Fullthrottle AFPR of about 48psi with my RC 550's. I also run a FP ported B28 @ 24psi, HKS cams, walbro 255lph, S-AFC, logger, and a 75 wet shot on pump gas.

 

[spyderturbo007]

You can easily max out 550cc injectors with an EVO III. I recommend you go with 650's, as it's cheap insurance against a malfuncting wastegate.

Also, PSI means nothing when you are talking about injector sizing.

You can be running 100psi, but if you are only flowing 1 lb/min air, 550's will be fine. You really need to look at airflow, not pressure.

 

[BGGSTin]

ok, thats because your running the gm maft setup. That thing is incredibly mis-calibrated. At some points I am pulling 21% of airflow to get it right.

The boost pressure isn't miscalibrated though...That's from an external source, not DSMLink, my duty and airflow is way off though so I need to calibrate that

 

[pickens]

I've had both 550's and now 650's on my e16g. I run slightly more than 20 psi (more like 23-24psi) and the 550's were maxed. The turbo was flowing about 40 lb/min. My duty cycles were through the roof. Installed the 650's and now my duty cycle sits around 79-81% w/ 11.0:1 A/F ratio.

Also, the 190 fuel pump couldn't keep up w/ the e16g at these boost pressures and A/F ratio either. Upgraded to a 255 lph and left it un-rewired. Works perfect.

In a nutshell, to make an e16g put in some work, you will need 650's and a 255 lph. If for whatever reason you want to always have your fuel system pushed to its max or you'll only push it hard on race gas, then by all means live dangerous and try to skate by on 550's and a 190 lph.

And one more thing, an AFC w/ 650's sucks for daily drivers (been there, done that). You will have almost zero part throttle driviability. You either have to baby the car, or give it all it has. That's great for a drag car though. If you go 650's you will definately need a chip or my preference would be dsmlink.

 

[rowlex]

The boost pressure isn't miscalibrated though...That's from an external source, not DSMLink, my duty and airflow is way off though so I need to calibrate that

Ok Maybe I misunderstood. But until the maft is calibrated your airflow and boostest will be off in dsmlink(u know this tho . Ofcoarse the boost reading from your gauge will be accurate. Have fun calibrating it, it took me a while + numerous pulls. Then when the weather changed it went off again.

 

[Generation X]

Damn... I can remember way back when people were using 550's with 20g's with no problems.

 

[kahl23]

The real question is what are your plans for the future. If you have DSMlink or even an AFC, you can run 720cc or higher. Of course, you plan to keep your 16G for a while, then there's no real point to it. However, if you plan to upgrade your turbo in the relatively near future, then save some money and give yourself more flexibility. Spend the extra money now rather than having to buy a whole new set of injectors when you upgrade your turbo. If you are going to use the 16G for a while, the 550s might work, but you are pushing their limits if you tune correctly.

 

[rowlex]

I purchased an evoIII turbo thinking i would never upgrade, luckily I did buy 650's with it. Less then 5 months of having the evoIII i upgraded to a bigger turbo. Re-sale value on the 650's is going to be more then you will get for 550's. Might as well go bigger you shouldn't have much trouble controlling them. I think I got 250$ for my 650's.

 

[pickens]

Damn... I can remember way back when people were using 550's with 20g's with no problems.
11-04-2005 08:40 PM


Yea, maybe true. But how many people were running 11's on 16g's then. Knowledge is power..literally. Just because something was done ump-ting years ago doesn't mean its still the best way to do something today.

 

[Generation X]

Damn... I can remember way back when people were using 550's with 20g's with no problems.
11-04-2005 08:40 PM


Yea, maybe true. But how many people were running 11's on 16g's then. Knowledge is power..literally. Just because something was done ump-ting years ago doesn't mean its still the best way to do something today.

I agree with you, and it depends on how long ago your referring to. Actually more people have busted 11's than you would think on 550's. With awd's of course. I agree knowledge and technology get better with time, and things change over time. I know of a guy that has run 450's deep into the 12's. Not everyone is an ace of a tuner. Tuning is the key. I know I'm making as much power on spray, if not more than some people with 50 trims on pump gas, and I'm using 550's. I'm getting about 18 degrees of timing at redline running 24 psi on a ported FP B28, HKS 264/272 cams, and a 75 wet shot. Although I have bumped up my base fp to about 45 or 46 psi to be a little more safe. Anyways.. I'm not trying to recommend 550's to everyone. I'm just saying that you can take 550's alot farther than most people would think with the proper tuning, and a little ole' thing called a AFPR. Here's the guy I'm referring to. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/member.php?&do=vehicledetails&userid=12315

 

[pickens]

Lets not debate facts and here they are for 16g style turbos:

550's - Keep boost around 20 psi on pump gas. Race gas.. crank boost up to whatever you 16g will put out.

650's - Needed to run 20+ psi on e16g turbos.

As far as t28 style turbo go. They don't put out as much as e16g turbos so you may be able to get away w/ more boost. The key is not really how much boost, but how much airflow which translates into power. It's very simple to figure how much injector you need by using one of the free calculators on the internet. For turbo applications, 550's will generally take you to 300ish whp safely. 650's will take you to about 350ish whp safely.