550cc enough for eIII16g at 20psi

[NewB2dsm]

how did you get into 11sec with evo, dude i need you to tell me that

Ill take a guess, good tuning and driving. Its not that hard. I went 12.1 on the small 16g and if i dont break into the 11's with my evo 16g im going to be upset.

 

[NewB2dsm]

Also, the 190 fuel pump couldn't keep up w/ the e16g at these boost pressures and A/F ratio either. Upgraded to a 255 lph and left it un-rewired. Works perfect.

.

How do you know the 190 pump couldnt keep up? and did you try to rewire the 190 and see if that made it work? But really i would like to know how you knew the 190 was not keeping up with power the car was making. And the afr.

 

[Stoner]

Ill take a guess, good tuning and driving. Its not that hard. I went 12.1 on the small 16g and if i dont break into the 11's with my evo 16g im going to be upset.

Not even good driving just good tuning and the car was making good power. Better 60's and better driving will yeild better ET's

 

[Generation X]

Lets not debate facts and here they are for 16g style turbos:

550's - Keep boost around 20 psi on pump gas. Race gas.. crank boost up to whatever you 16g will put out.

650's - Needed to run 20+ psi on e16g turbos.

As far as t28 style turbo go. They don't put out as much as e16g turbos so you may be able to get away w/ more boost. The key is not really how much boost, but how much airflow which translates into power. It's very simple to figure how much injector you need by using one of the free calculators on the internet. For turbo applications, 550's will generally take you to 300ish whp safely. 650's will take you to about 350ish whp safely.

Dude... I'm not debating any facts. Your the one that quoted me first, and all I stated was that 550's were the norm years ago, not only on 16g's but 20g's as well. Every car is different. I don't care what calculators you are using, real world proof is where it's at, and I gave you a link to a guy that's running 450's and not even 550's, plus he's on a stock side mount running a 60-1 and a 100 shot, and I personally think he's crazy, but he does it. Remember I'm not only running a B28 and cams. I'm also running a 75 shot which is probably more like a 100 shot on a turbo application. I can run 24 psi and a 75 shot with no problems what so ever on 550's and pump gas. I've just bumped my fuel pressure up just a little bit. Also... the only person I've seen on this board other than a shop represented car to run extremely fast times on a e16g is Shape, and he's running a 1g 6 bolt with the better flowing 1g tb, 1g intake manifold, and 1g head. I agree that the e16g flows more than a B28, but not that much more. I can see that by the times list over at dsmtimes.org. What works for you works for you. What works for me works for me. Like I said I didn't recommend 550's to anyone on there set ups. I was just making a statement that they were the norm years ago. I had no intentions of starting a pissing contest. You do what you think is best for you and your set up, and I will stick with mine. Have a nice day!

 

[pickens]

No pissing contests on my end. The only other point I want to make is if are using a wet shot then who cares how much nitrous your running because the extra fuel is added through the jetting not the fuel injectors. So your 550's are supporting only the B28 not the nitrous. I would even venture to bet that, your nitrous/fuel jetting is on the rich side helping your 550's even more so. Most standard nitrous kits are jetted fairly rich for safety.

Also, I don't have first hand experience w/ a B28 so I can't comment directly on its performance, but I do w/ a small 16g and e16g. And yes, the e16g blows the s16g out the water which most compare the B28 too. But thats not the point, we agree on the fact that you should not recommend running 550s on a e16g. FWIW, I never meant to call you out, I apologize if I did.

Newbdsm: I found out my pump was on the ragged edge after I picked up my DSMlink and WB. As I begin to tune, I noticed my injector duty cycle was through the roof on my 650s. As I subtracted fuel via DSMlink and continued to watch my duty cycles and A/F ratios, I noticed that my A/F would stay stable even as I subtract fuel. My injector duty would go down, but the A/F would not budge towards leaner. What was happening was, my original tune was compensating for the drop in fuel pressure in the rail by keeping the injectors open longer than really needed to be. I backed this up by A.) Re-wire mod, where I seen an improvement. However, I felt there was no safety factor. B.) I looked at the well documented 190 flow charts and compared that to my power and injector duty cycles to figure out how much fuel I was really using at an 11:1 A/F and found that the 190 at 13.5V was indeed at its absolute limit. I switched to a 255 and left it unwired and everything tuning wise fell into place. Keep in mind my boost is set to about 24 psi, thats 67psi-ish in the fuel rail. Perhaps the 190HP would allow some breathing room, but definately not the straight 190 lph which drops off sharply as fuel pressure is raised.

By the way, I recommend DSMlink all day long if you jump to 650s. Night and Day..literally...between a straight AFC w/ no chip.

 

[NewB2dsm]

Newbdsm: I found out my pump was on the ragged edge after I picked up my DSMlink and WB. As I begin to tune, I noticed my injector duty cycle was through the roof on my 650s. As I subtracted fuel via DSMlink and continued to watch my duty cycles and A/F ratios, I noticed that my A/F would stay stable even as I subtract fuel. My injector duty would go down, but the A/F would not budge towards leaner. What was happening was, my original tune was compensating for the drop in fuel pressure in the rail by keeping the injectors open longer than really needed to be. I backed this up by A.) Re-wire mod, where I seen an improvement. However, I felt there was no safety factor. B.) I looked at the well documented 190 flow charts and compared that to my power and injector duty cycles to figure out how much fuel I was really using at an 11:1 A/F and found that the 190 at 13.5V was indeed at its absolute limit. I switched to a 255 and left it unwired and everything tuning wise fell into place. Keep in mind my boost is set to about 24 psi, thats 67psi-ish in the fuel rail. Perhaps the 190 HP would allow some breathing room, but definately not the straight 190 lph which drops off sharply as fuel pressure is raised.

By the way, I recommend DSMlink all day long if you jump to 650s. Night and Day..literally...between a straight AFC w/ no chip.

I am getting a chip for my eprom ecu. But i have a 190 that im going to rewire, i hope that is enough but i will be pushing the limits of it and im aware of that. I was just hoping to get away with it, so i was just looking for someone who actually has good data like you do. I do wish you had some dyno number to try and figure out exactly a "power limit" on that fuel pump. I might have to pick up a 255 just to be safe. Thanks for the info, but just one final question. The IDC went up but the AFR would stay constant at 11.1? I am going to tune mine for 11.5:1 on pump and about 12.0 - 12.3 :1 on race gas. So maybe that little bit leaner might help.

 

[larsrya8]

Perhaps the 190HP would allow some breathing room

There's a Walbro 190HP?

 

[pickens]

I only have 91 octane. So 11.5:1 was very unattainable. I tried everything from pulling timing w/out success. 11:1 is about the limit for my setup on pump. When I blend 100 octane, I run an 11.4-5:1 which seems to work well.

My IDC went down while my A/F stayed the same since I was trying to lean it out. Had I been going the other way, then yes, my IDC would've went up while my A/F stayed the same.

A chip would be the next best thing. But there is still no way to adjust timing for when you switch to race gas, thus leaving some power on the table. That's proably the only good thing about the straight AFC. It indirectly gives all the timing in the world when you lean it out by hiding airflow when on race gas, however it bites you in the butt when on pump gas and you have to hide airflow to compensate for larger injectors.

 

[Generation X]

No pissing contests on my end. The only other point I want to make is if are using a wet shot then who cares how much nitrous your running because the extra fuel is added through the jetting not the fuel injectors. So your 550's are supporting only the B28 not the nitrous. I would even venture to bet that, your nitrous/fuel jetting is on the rich side helping your 550's even more so. Most standard nitrous kits are jetted fairly rich for safety.

Also, I don't have first hand experience w/ a B28 so I can't comment directly on its performance, but I do w/ a small 16g and e16g. And yes, the e16g blows the s16g out the water which most compare the B28 too. But thats not the point, we agree on the fact that you should not recommend running 550s on a e16g. FWIW, I never meant to call you out, I apologize if I did.

Newbdsm: I found out my pump was on the ragged edge after I picked up my DSMlink and WB. As I begin to tune, I noticed my injector duty cycle was through the roof on my 650s. As I subtracted fuel via DSMlink and continued to watch my duty cycles and A/F ratios, I noticed that my A/F would stay stable even as I subtract fuel. My injector duty would go down, but the A/F would not budge towards leaner. What was happening was, my original tune was compensating for the drop in fuel pressure in the rail by keeping the injectors open longer than really needed to be. I backed this up by A.) Re-wire mod, where I seen an improvement. However, I felt there was no safety factor. B.) I looked at the well documented 190 flow charts and compared that to my power and injector duty cycles to figure out how much fuel I was really using at an 11:1 A/F and found that the 190 at 13.5V was indeed at its absolute limit. I switched to a 255 and left it unwired and everything tuning wise fell into place. Keep in mind my boost is set to about 24 psi, thats 67psi-ish in the fuel rail. Perhaps the 190HP would allow some breathing room, but definately not the straight 190 lph which drops off sharply as fuel pressure is raised.

By the way, I recommend DSMlink all day long if you jump to 650s. Night and Day..literally...between a straight AFC w/ no chip.

That's cool man!

 

[NewB2dsm]

I only have 91 octane. So 11.5:1 was very unattainable. I tried everything from pulling timing w/out success. 11:1 is about the limit for my setup on pump. When I blend 100 octane, I run an 11.4-5:1 which seems to work well.

My IDC went down while my A/F stayed the same since I was trying to lean it out. Had I been going the other way, then yes, my IDC would've went up while my A/F stayed the same.

A chip would be the next best thing. But there is still no way to adjust timing for when you switch to race gas, thus leaving some power on the table. That's proably the only good thing about the straight AFC. It indirectly gives all the timing in the world when you lean it out by hiding airflow when on race gas, however it bites you in the butt when on pump gas and you have to hide airflow to compensate for larger injectors.

Yup, thats my only concern is the timiing i was getting with the straight afc when i was leaning it out to 12.5:1, so im going to be relying on boost to help me this time around since this turbo can actually hold some. My small would drop off to ~18psi no matter what. Ill see how things work out and if all else fails then a 1g CAS will go on the car.

 

[Baron4406]

It kinda amazes me when I read these threads how good my setup actually works. I run 21 psi of boost on my Evo 3 GT with 550's. My IDC's??? With full factory timing I'm at 75% , if I pull out 8 degrees and lower my extra fuel I rarely hit 70%. Yet I have had internet "experts" tell me all the time: 1. my 550's are way too small 2. My EFI PMS is dated and I should get DSM LINK. Why are my IDC's so low?? Well I have a Buschur front mount, a 255 Walbro with AFPR, and where I live I can get 93 or 94 octane. I just got the new MAFT Pro, I wanted to go Speed Density. Holy crap, terrible instructions. Too many things to adjust. Guys on the boards ahve problems and don't know which of the 1000 things to adjust........... I think I'll keep my crappy, dated EFI PMS and add a Wideband (in the mail now) and Water Injection (already in my garage).

Hopefully this post showed you that people drool over front mount intercoolers for a reason, and getting decent octane fuel to your motor in copious amounts is king.

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

It kinda amazes me when I read these threads how good my setup actually works. I run 21 psi of boost on my Evo 3 GT with 550's. My IDC's??? With full factory timing I'm at 75% , if I pull out 8 degrees and lower my extra fuel I rarely hit 70%. Yet I have had internet "experts" tell me all the time: 1. my 550's are way too small 2. My EFI PMS is dated and I should get DSM LINK. Why are my IDC's so low?? Well I have a Buschur front mount, a 255 Walbro with AFPR, and where I live I can get 93 or 94 octane. I just got the new MAFT Pro, I wanted to go Speed Density. Holy crap, terrible instructions. Too many things to adjust. Guys on the boards ahve problems and don't know which of the 1000 things to adjust........... I think I'll keep my crappy, dated EFI PMS and add a Wideband (in the mail now) and Water Injection (already in my garage).

Hopefully this post showed you that people drool over front mount intercoolers for a reason, and getting decent octane fuel to your motor in copious amounts is king.

Well said... What's your base fuel pressure? That's one thing that I'd thought I'd chime in on that no one has mentioned yet.

Just by playing around with my BFP, I was able to add or take away about 10-12% of my IDC... My mods include an AFPR, custom EPROM configured for Denso 650's size & rise time, AN-06 line, and an old school SAFC to fine tuning.

So far, with my E316g, I have yet to monitor anything over 65% IDC, at 21psi via my MMCD logger (also verrified by my HK$ Injector Pulse Monitor)... This is all done on our 91 diet crap gas, here in CA with no knock over 14 with out water injection. -Less then 8 with it activated at 10psi (mostly in between gears).

 

[exiletalon]

I am running a daily 21-22psi on 91, with the FP 18G, and FIC 650cc, SAFC2, and decent tune. I am able to run consistently with no knock, Either get a FMIC, Supra SMIC, or even bigger injectors.- DSMlink is the way to go, considering the money spent over time, the DSMlink makes up for it, and it works better, faster, and is stronger.

 

[Generation X]

I run 20psi on a ported FP B28, HKS cams, and a 75 wet shot, all on 93 octane.

Whenever I spray my boost jumps to 22 to 23 and my 550's are suffice.

I even have an AFPR, and I have it set to the stock 43psi base fuel pressure.