4g63?? Needs big injectors?

[dsmsucks]

I was wondering why you can take the stock 450 and make more power on a car with a bigger engine (3000vr4) On our engine they begin to run out at 300hp??
thanks

 

[JayRolla]

Because that motor has six cylinders and makes less power per cylinder to create the same power made by the 4 cylinder.

 

[AJGoldie]

Well, the stockers are only 360cc and already make around 300hp stock. So obviously putting in bigger injectors will put out more power.

 

[dsmsucks]

Because that motor has six cylinders and makes less power per cylinder to create the same power made by the 4 cylinder.

thanks man. I never could understand that.

AJGoldie Stock 5speed injectors are 450

 

[AJGoldie]

thanks man. I never could understand that.

AJGoldie Stock 5speed injectors are 450

DSMs are 450's but 3000gt VR4's are 360's actually.

Fuel Injector information & Specifications specs

I also found this link for when RC got their hands on them.

Stealth 316 - RC Engineering-cleaned stock fuel injectors

 

[dsmsucks]

DSMs are 450's but 3000gt VR4's are 360's actually.

Fuel Injector information & Specifications specs

I also found this link for when RC got their hands on them.

Stealth 316 - RC Engineering-cleaned stock fuel injectors

Sorry read to fast

Thats what I was wondering. The vr4 has 360 injectors but makes around 300hp stock. A dsm has 450cc and is 195hp stock

JayRolla explanied it pretty good

 

[silver bullit]

Well, the stockers are only 360cc and already make around 300hp stock. So obviously putting in bigger injectors will put out more power.

You obviously have alot to learn here.

The 1g dsm have a low 7.8 compression, and 195 hp in 1989 Though the 14b is a good +300hp turbo and can run 11s on stock turbo. The 2g have a 8.5 and a smaller crap turbo and put 210 hp in 1995. The vr4 has 2 more piston and 2 turbos and i am not sure about the stock compression ratio.

Your comparing a v8 to a 4 banger, yeah the v8 makes 400 hp but the 4 banger does the same 50 hp per cylinder and half the pistons puts out 200 hp.

Throw bigger injectors in...
All that will do is make your motor run hotter cause your running rich, specifically cause you have a lack of engine mods. Its a turbo car, it makes power on alot of other variables, resistance to knock, mods done to motor and turbo, boost level, piston compression ratio, engine management, etc...

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Did anyone mention the base fuel pressure on 1g's are less also. So in all reality, the 1g stockers are really 390's since its only at 36.3 and not 43.

James

 

[silver bullit]

Did anyone mention the base fuel pressure on 1g's are less also. So in all reality, the 1g stockers are really 390's since its only at 36.3 and not 43.

James

Base fuel pressure one 1g are 38 2g are 43 ish? correct me if i am wrong

 

[illeffekt vr-4]

You're close, I think its 37.5psi for 1g and 42psi for 2g. Make sure you check it with the vacuum hose off the regulator.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Nope, 1g is def. 36.3.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

James

 

[bastarddsm]

You obviously have alot to learn here.

The 1g dsm have a low 7.8 compression, and 195 hp in 1989 Though the 14b is a good +300hp turbo and can run 11s on stock turbo. The 2g have a 8.5 and a smaller crap turbo and put 210 hp in 1995. The vr4 has 2 more piston and 2 turbos and i am not sure about the stock compression ratio.

Your comparing a v8 to a 4 banger, yeah the v8 makes 400 hp but the 4 banger does the same 50 hp per cylinder and half the pistons puts out 200 hp.

Throw bigger injectors in...
All that will do is make your motor run hotter cause your running rich, specifically cause you have a lack of engine mods. Its a turbo car, it makes power on alot of other variables, resistance to knock, mods done to motor and turbo, boost level, piston compression ratio, engine management, etc...

What are you even talking about? you ramble so much. I belive it is you that have a lot to learn here. running rich will cause a cooler flame in the combustion chamber. What is relavent here is topics such as brake specific fuel consumption. which is about .60lb per hour per hp, in our application.

soooooooooooooo our beloved dsm's have 4 450cc injectors = 1800cc/min. we dont want more than a 80% duty cycle so we really have 1440 cc/min injectors which = is equal to about 137lb/hr so we take that divided by .6 lb per hp and we can safely make 228hp. if we live dangerously and run a 95% dc, and claim we can go .5lb per hp per hr we can make: 271

now if we apply this to a sealth with 6 360cc injectors we get 271 hp. and dangerously we get 390hp

Inreality even the dangerous numbers are a weeee bit conservative, but its a good rule to go by.

for more information please visit RC Fuel Injection



happy tuesday!

 

[lasertrash]

I beleive your both right. If you watch your EGT's while tuning a car that is running extremely rich they will be extremely high, and the car will be prone to rich knock. As you lean it out the egt's will drop as your afr increases into the 10.5:1 to 12:1 range. Im not 100% sure about this range but its the safe area to keep your afr so it makes sense. Then as the afr increases to the dangerous levels cylinder temps start to climb dramatically. Not good.

 

[lasertrash]

You obviously have alot to learn here.

The 1g dsm have a low 7.8 compression, and 195 hp in 1989 Though the 14b is a good +300hp turbo and can run 11s on stock turbo. The 2g have a 8.5 and a smaller crap turbo and put 210 hp in 1995. The vr4 has 2 more piston and 2 turbos and i am not sure about the stock compression ratio.

Your comparing a v8 to a 4 banger, yeah the v8 makes 400 hp but the 4 banger does the same 50 hp per cylinder and half the pistons puts out 200 hp.

Throw bigger injectors in...
All that will do is make your motor run hotter cause your running rich, specifically cause you have a lack of engine mods. Its a turbo car, it makes power on alot of other variables, resistance to knock, mods done to motor and turbo, boost level, piston compression ratio, engine management, etc...

I beleive the 14b is only good for about 275hp and 13's in normal street trim. I know you can weld the wastegates shut, port the crap out of them and spin them till they blow to run 11's on heavily modded motors. Seems a little extreme to me unless your just trying to prove something.

 

[bastarddsm]

I beleive your both right. If you watch your EGT's while tuning a car that is running extremely rich they will be extremely high, and the car will be prone to rich knock. As you lean it out the egt's will drop as your afr increases into the 10.5:1 to 12:1 range. Im not 100% sure about this range but its the safe area to keep your afr so it makes sense. Then as the afr increases to the dangerous levels cylinder temps start to climb dramatically. Not good.

there can be two causes for that:

1. there is soo much extra fuel that it burns slow and is burning on the way out the exhaust port causing huge egt's

2. still related to the first, if tuning with an afc, improper tuning can cause higher than actual air flow numbers, causing retarded timing and high egt's

 

[meliketoball]

So obviously putting in bigger injectors will put out more power.

How so McJoe?

 

[silver bullit]

What are you even talking about? you ramble so much. I belive it is you that have a lot to learn here. running rich will cause a cooler flame in the combustion chamber. What is relavent here is topics such as brake specific fuel consumption. which is about .60lb per hour per hp, in our application.

soooooooooooooo our beloved dsm's have 4 450cc injectors = 1800cc/min. we dont want more than a 80% duty cycle so we really have 1440 cc/min injectors which = is equal to about 137lb/hr so we take that divided by .6 lb per hp and we can safely make 228hp. if we live dangerously and run a 95% dc, and claim we can go .5lb per hp per hr we can make: 271

now if we apply this to a sealth with 6 360cc injectors we get 271 hp. and dangerously we get 390hp

Inreality even the dangerous numbers are a weeee bit conservative, but its a good rule to go by.

for more information please visit RC Fuel Injection


happy tuesday!

The link you gave is for estimations only.
Running rich will not cause cooler temps. All the air has been burned off your left with heated gasoline, cause you have burned all the air in the compression stroke. Also running rich can cause bad gas mileage, melt exhaust wheels(from the shear temps of unburned fuel) I know this for a fact i have done this, and if you search youll find this is true. Also this higher amount of unburned fuel may cause a phantom knock as the fuel pings from being unburned.

Above what you mentioned is only scientific approach, as every car is different and there are to many variables to negotiate this ie boost leaks, injectors are in 100 percent working order which is not the case on a car with 100,000 miles on it, exhaust leaks etc.

The only way to tell what your IDC (injector duty cycle) is by some sort of logger, EGT temp gauge, engine management like dsmlink, or having your injectors taken out of the car and flow benched.

I beleive your both right. If you watch your EGT's while tuning a car that is running extremely rich they will be extremely high, and the car will be prone to rich knock. As you lean it out the egt's will drop as your afr increases into the 10.5:1 to 12:1 range. Im not 100% sure about this range but its the safe area to keep your afr so it makes sense. Then as the afr increases to the dangerous levels cylinder temps start to climb dramatically. Not good.

The only reason to run a little richer is to help spool bigger turbos, thats not needed on stock turbo cars.

I beleive the 14b is only good for about 275hp and 13's in normal street trim. I know you can weld the wastegates shut, port the crap out of them and spin them till they blow to run 11's on heavily modded motors. Seems a little extreme to me unless your just trying to prove something.

No look in the dyno sheets there are 14b making more than 300 wheel hp with awd.

The people are doing 14b cause it is to easy to throw a 50 trim on a car and run 12.
It is called tuning if you can learn it you can make any tuned 14b car run much faster then a untuned one.

there can be two causes for that:

1. there is soo much extra fuel that it burns slow and is burning on the way out the exhaust port causing huge egt's

2. still related to the first, if tuning with an afc, improper tuning can cause higher than actual air flow numbers, causing retarded timing and high egt's

Read this:

Ether way you dont have any way to correct the fuel maps for the larger injectors. You need to have some sort of engine management, throwing bigger injector on a stock car is not good. The hotter egt can melt the exhaust wheels, i know from personal experiences, not to mention cause a sort of phantom knock from unburned fuel, and generally make the motor run hotter.

I still dont understand why this thread was made, are you gonna start selling injector upgrades for 3000gt's? I dought anyone will wanna pull out 6 injectors and swap them out for the chance to get maybe another 50 hp out of them. Your better off buying new, never used larger injectors, of course if you have the supporting mods for it.

 

[bastarddsm]

The link you gave is for estimations only.
Running rich will not cause cooler temps. All the air has been burned off your left with heated gasoline, cause you have burned all the air in the compression stroke. Also running rich can cause bad gas mileage, melt exhaust wheels(from the shear temps of unburned fuel) I know this for a fact i have done this, and if you search youll find this is true. Also this higher amount of unburned fuel may cause a phantom knock as the fuel pings from being unburned.

Above what you mentioned is only scientific approach, as every car is different and there are to many variables to negotiate this ie boost leaks, injectors are in 100 percent working order which is not the case on a car with 100,000 miles on it, exhaust leaks etc.

The only way to tell what your IDC (injector duty cycle) is by some sort of logger, EGT temp gauge, engine management like dsmlink, or having your injectors taken out of the car and flow benched.





The only reason to run a little richer is to help spool bigger turbos, thats not needed on stock turbo cars.


No look in the dyno sheets there are 14b making more than 300 wheel hp with awd.

The people are doing 14b cause it is to easy to throw a 50 trim on a car and run 12.
It is called tuning if you can learn it you can make any tuned 14b car run much faster then a untuned one.



Read this:

Ether way you dont have any way to correct the fuel maps for the larger injectors. You need to have some sort of engine management, throwing bigger injector on a stock car is not good. The hotter egt can melt the exhaust wheels, i know from personal experiences, not to mention cause a sort of phantom knock from unburned fuel, and generally make the motor run hotter.

I still dont understand why this thread was made, are you gonna start selling injector upgrades for 3000gt's? I dought anyone will wanna pull out 6 injectors and swap them out for the chance to get maybe another 50 hp out of them. Your better off buying new, never used larger injectors, of course if you have the supporting mods for it.

Dude your ####ng retared. The op asked why we need such big injectors to make 200 hp, and you went off on some tanget about things that were not asked about. Furthermore your spreading heresay. Should refrain from speaking on topics you know nothing about.

 

[dsmsucks]

Dude your ####ng retared. The op asked why we need such big injectors to make 200 hp, and you went off on some tanget about things that were not asked about. Furthermore your spreading heresay. Should refrain from speaking on topics you know nothing about.

wow I didnt want this to turn into a flaming thread. I think good info can be had in this thread