1G 4G63 locked up?

[MiniStockLaser]

Hello all... I am new to the forums and fairly new to imports and FWD in general... busted my knuckles on V8s and RWD... I just aquired a 1990 Plymouth Laser with a 1991 4G63 DOHC... the car is from a fairly well known racing family here in Florida and was a terror on the Mini Stock circuit in the 2000s... I acquired it for cheap and plan on doing a period correct buildup and race it now and then... the problem is the previous owner said he had the car running and noticed that water was coming out of the weep hole on the water pump... He said the water temp only got up to 245 degrees before he cut it off... He said he replaced the water pump and went to fire it up and it would not turn over... I havnt checked for myself, but I wanted to check with the experts first to let me know if there is anything I need to double check on his end to make sure the install is correct... My assumptions are either the car got way hotter than 245 and possible seized the bearings or there is something binding and he didn't notice it... anything I can check before I try the breaker bar?

 

[joemamma]

take valve cover off and spark plugs out-- turn over slowly--if too difficult put borescope in and look at cylinders----can also drop oil pan if needed and check there too

 

[Philip]

If you can't turn the crank or its very hard to turn, odds are that its locked up

 

[livedsm4g63]

He said the water temp only got up to 245 degrees before he cut it off... He said he replaced the water pump and went to fire it up and it would not turn over

Only 245?! , Thats getting near the limit to be hoesnt. I about pooped my pants when I saw 230 once. Granted everything was fine. Nonetheless, for the waterpump to come off you have to remove the timing belt. Chances are, timing is off and the pistons are hitting the valves causing "binding".

 

[calgst95]

If he replaced the water pump, check the timing on it. It may be binding up on a valve.

 

[MiniStockLaser]

I'm not that familiar with the import engines... I have had a few of my SBCs running 7grand and have got to 260 (not on purpose of course) just changed the oil and found the source of the overheating and kept on trucking... I tried everything but look down the bores with a scope, even took the cams out and it won't turn over whatsoever... I'm trying to source a used engine to swap the head from this engine onto the new used engine... eBay has them but they are over $1,000... I'm going to try to source one locally but what is a decent rebuild kit that is respectfully priced? It's a circle track car so I'm not looking to sink a bunch of money in it... we aren't allowed exotic/forged parts anyway. Thanks for any help

 

[GoCanes777]

With the type of racing you intend to do can you go with Evo 8/9 internals or strickly oem? I've seen a number of builds using Evo springs and retainers. Can't speak on bottom end as I haven't done much research with that. As far as a rebuild I have a set of 1997 oem Cams springs and retainers I don't mind donating to your build. The classifieds is also a good place for used or new parts. The DSM community is tight kit for the most part I have never been pointed in the wrong direction or sold bad parts as long as I did research on the persons sell/buy history in there profile.

 

[MiniStockLaser]

We do Mini Stock circle track racing... it's a pretty basic class... keep things simple and cost effective. No more than 5 degrees of camber on RF. We run racing rims with the Falken 200 AA A tires... as far as motor we are allowed a CAI and that's pretty much about it... the rules state that engines must be "stock" and rebuilt using "stock" parts... I have stock in quotations because if the car had 2 or 3 engine options, you can swap engine and tranny to the better option. For example, this car was a 1990 Plymouth Laser with SOHC 4G63 and an automatic... they swapped in a DOHC 4g63 and a manual trans from a 1993 Laser/Eclipse... the motor has had some work done to it along with the head, to what extent, I'm not sure but the car belonged to some pretty serious people that used to run Nascar and it was his sons car... it even has ARP head studs ... parts would have to be "stock" 4g63 or equivalent... would I be able to tear down, clean parts up, throw a set of bearings, new gaskets, hone the cylinders and put new rings on and be good? I know you can get away with a little bit with old domestic V8s compared to these newer engines... I have no problem buying parts and sending it to someone who knows these engines if i have to have any special tools... I also tried to look up quarter panel skins and door skins but that was a no go... guess i will have to make out of sheet metal

 

[GoCanes777]

The 1g interior parts will be tough to find. JNZtuning.com will be your best bet. Also DSMparts.com and extremepsi.com are other sites I have used since 2010. As far as tools ones off the top of my head would be all related to timing. 90-94 then 95-99 have a old version 4g63 followed by an ''updated version''. Differences can include cam angle sensors, turbo, intake/exhaust manifold, head ports, oil filter housing just to name a few. The FAQ can clear up those questions. From the detailesyou have given me I would say you have a 6-bolt in your car 90-94 = 6 bolt and 96-99 have 7 bolts. 6/7 bolt simply means there is 6 bolts or 7 bolts holding the transmission. If you can post of pictures of the engine can its a dead giveaway which you are working with unless a cam angle sensor from a 7-bolt is on your head. I may have jumped around a bit there on you if you have any other questions keep em coming.

 

[GoCanes777]

Also take the time to make up your profile on your car others will be able to look at pictures/info and give you better answers since we would have a better idea what you are working with.

 

[GrimmLegion]

These motors aren't as forgiving as v8, ID suggest getting a manual and checking out the service limits. If things aren't in spec you'll have some big problems. That's why you find some of these cars cheap with lots of aftermarket parts and issues because they never got it right. If the motor is locked up and not knowing the 100% truth, I'd redo timing as mentioned above and go from there. Before you try to force the crank over I'd take the head off first and verify no binding. If it still doesn't turn over EASY, the bottom end might be in bad shape. I've seen these motors blown because of not changing the oil on time, which I'm bad about on my 5.7 hemi, but then again I run Amsoil in it. Also living in FL, if it was sold cheap, it's usually because fixing it was $$$.

 

[MiniStockLaser]

Here are pictures of the engine

 

[MiniStockLaser]

More pictures

 

[MiniStockLaser]

Here's picture of the outside... the car was last ran in 2005 but the motor just recently quit running... also threw in some pics of my Honda mini stock... with a carbed A20... I can keep pace with the Ecotech Cavys and Sunfires... they pull me down the straights but that will change when I get the Weber carb.

 

[GoCanes777]

By the pictures of the motor your dealing with a 6-Bolt which is great. Some will say that motor is better then a 7-bolt depending on who you talk to and the cars horsepower goals. Me personally I like the 6-bolt block with a 7-bolt head (is has smaller ports on the intake side compared to a 6-bolt head) more on that later. By the looks of it doesn't look like it's been ran in a very very long time. As stated above a manual (which I also need) and removing the head to check for a valve or other bind is your best bet. No shame in trying to turn the bottom end but more problems can come
Up. Are there limits to your hp and type of turbo you can run? I understand you said stock but there are different or better proformance parts from an Evo 3 or galant that bolt up to our cars that will give you serious gains across the board. Example a 16g turbo from a Evo 3, Evo 2-3 intake manifold, evo 3 exhaust manifold, o2 housing and throttle body are all parts from another 4G63 stated above but are on Off Japanese versions of the car.

 

[MiniStockLaser]

No turbo/nitrous allowed in circle track. Rules say "no porting, grinding, or modifying of any kind" basically the best OEM parts for that vehicle... I plan on going ahead and pulling the motor... the motor has only ran to move in and out of garages for about 5 years now.

 

[GoCanes777]

Well that clears up my next question as to why there is a all motor exhaust manifold on the car. As for which oem parts be better for your situation I won't be able to answer that since I haven't had much experience in circle track racing. Sorry I couldn't be more help but some all motor guys will chime in soon and the car you see on the front page can probably shoot you some knowledge if you send him a message. Good luck I will be following your build and results at the track/races for sure.