4g63 cyclone question

[1gdsmtalon]

I have a 1992 talon tsi. i purchased a cyclone intake manifold, that white cylinder thing that the vaccum hose goes into. and the cyclone ecu.

Will the cyclone ecu just plug in and work or will there need to be rewiring.

and the the cyclone ecu's eprom?

 

[Memphetic]

Link to this "cyclone" you speak of.....?

 

[cookmeup272]

Youve never heard of the Cyclone intake manifold?

 

[brian9397gsx]

correct me if im wrong but didnt the cyclone motors come in galants mostly so the ecu would probably b e for a galant so no it wouldnt work

 

[nothingfiction]

Actually...
Used Japanese 4G63 Motor and Trans Searching

There is no "Cyclone Motor" The long blocks from Japan are the same year for year as the US motors. They will usually have the Cyclone intake manifolds on them. This is just a dual runner (similar to Toyota's TVIS system) intake manifold that gave a little better bottom end power IF you have all the electronics to properly actuate the butterfly valves. Also there are clearance issues between the Cyclone manifold and the larger US A/C compressor. Yes you can use it, but not really worth the hassle. Some manifolds will say "Cyclone" on them but not have the dual runner butterfly system. The timing belt upper covers sometimes can be slightly damaged from shipping, also the igniter or coil pack may be damaged. This usually happens in the shipping container on the boat ride from Japan.

 

[belize1334]

I have to disagree with the "not worth the effort" aspect. I run a cyclone manifold on my OEM 1G longblock and I picked up 40 ft-lb at around 3k rpm and it dropped the spool threshold on my s16g by about 150 rpm. You MUST have some kind of switch to control a vacuum solenoid to activate the runners at ~4100 rpm. This can be done through the ECU with a custom Eprom or else with the solenoid controls in ECMLink. You can also do it with a ~$40 rpm switch from summit racing.

 

[JusMX141]

You can also use a T25 wastegate actuator to effectively operate the valving without the hassle of electronics.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/318644-here-how-my-cyclone-manifold-will-activated.html

 

[1gdsmtalon]

isnt the white the white canaster suppose to open and close the runner?

 

[Melbowski]

IMHO the Cyclone IM is a great investment; proven gains in low end torque and spool, not to mention it only flows 2-3cfm less than a 1g IM. It's by far worth the trade-off IMO. As it stands there are a few options for hook-up:

1) Run via JDM Galant computer: Obviously the option you're hoping for though I can't remember if it's plug and play, but my memory tells me that it is ; research it first. The JDM computer runs the Cyclone via the EGR solenoid switch on our US cars IIRC. The only problem with this setup is that the JDM ECU is set to open the solenoid at >3000 RPM, which with our smaller turbos is actually a little on the late side IMO.

2) DSMlink: One of the preferred methods, as you can set it to open at any RPM you specify, best option for a 1g IMO.

3) Pressure switch wired to a solenoid: Activates based on boost pressure, works reasonably well, but at high rpm if you release the throttle it closes the butterflies, so if you step on the throttle again the butterflies won't open till you build boost, which at high rpm can actually slightly slow your spool-up. By far not a large problem really, but notable.

4) RPM switch tied to solenoid: Very similar to the stock JDM Galant's setup, as the ECU activates the solenoid via RPM. Solves the pressure switch problem, but requires some work to get it to open at just the right RPM for optimum performance. See diagram.

5) Modified T25 waste-gate actuator: Similar to the pressure switch, but everything operates mechanically. The butterflies also open progressively as the waste-gate spring compresses. Youtube video via DSMTalk here

Quick diagram:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

IIRC the JDM ECU's can be eprom, but don't quote me on it.

The white canister is merely a one-way vacuum canister, though it is necessary for the Cyclone to function properly, it doesn't really open or close the butterflies per se. The butterflies default to open via a spring, and use vacuum to hold them closed. The canister merely holds vacuum to keep the butterflies fully closed until a solenoid is activated to open the butterflies.

When I bought my 6-bolt it came with the Cyclone IM, so I've been researching it for a little while now. DSMTalk has the majority of information on it, including flow testing and such, but I can't find the thread ATM. Hope you find some of that information useful.

 

[mjecha]

First off, sorry to drag out this semi-old thread. I always feel funny as the forum rules dictate proper protocol is to thoroughly search for your answer before posting questions. After more than ten years, most answers will be found (with enough searching), but then that rarely leaves me to post anything (as you can see I am still probationary).

After purchasing a 90 AWD Talon that and a JDM engine from an importer and putting it in just before 3 years overseas, I am returning to nearly pull this project together to be something great. The next step, I feel, is the proper actuation and function of the included dual-runner cyclone intake manifold. With much research I have found a lot of information.

(As a side note, it's interesting how you can spend 2-3 hours searching for some detailed, enlightening instructions, part references, and feedback on a particular solution, while coming across 20+ threads with others posting the same question, that are 7 years old with dead links, or have people responding with 'use the search' or 'tons of good information out there'. This is true at all forums and from 2002 to 2010, though the quality of information has risen dramatically in the past five years. In any case, I don't mean it as a slander or complaint, but this is my attempt to help break that trend a little.)

Here are some of the solutions I have found:

Many of the threads I have read point towards this master dsmtalk thread where the viability, effectiveness, installation, and possibilities behind the cyclone manifold are discussed:
The Big Cyclone Thread, from dsmtalk
Thread 50194, "Cyclone Intake Manifold Question"
It is 21 pages, from 2002 to 2004. I have not read all 21 pages, but the discussion is productive (although a lot of untested information and speculation)

Mine is not a discussion of effectiveness, as it's already installed and I'm going to use it. I am not interested in purchasing and installing a different intake manifold at this time. However, I do want to make sure I have it functioning correctly and as efficiently as possible on my stock ECU.

The first coherent and well-documented proposal came courtesy of Ho Chi Inn from dsmtalk, and put together for reference by Groomz. This method uses the white one-way vacuum canister, two solenoids (BCS and fuel purge solenoid), and a Hobbs pressure switch.
That method is detailed in the tech article archives on this site, 109763
Cyclone Intake Manifold Setup
My limited understanding is that this method works to actuate based on psi and rpm with a stock ecu, but may be a little less responsive than other options, and requires more equipment/setup.

The next proposal I came across, which is actually the most recent, is an instructional video (gotta love instructional videos. Nothing better to come across when conducting research!) that demonstrates using a wastegate actuator (WGA) to operate the butterflies.
Cyclone Intake Manifold
Thanks to MindBlowin03 for putting that together and making it really easy for the rest of us.
My limited understanding of the WGA method is that it is simple, direct, and purely mechanical, but does not include rpm as a factor in opening dual runner operation.

The last potential solution, and the one I will hope to use, has a couple of sub-options included within it. Posted in 2006, courtesy of Agent11br, in these dsmtuners tech article archives, #224551:
How to Properly Actuate a JDM Cyclone Manifold
Agent11br's description is lucid and separates vaccum from rpm signal, which is very helpful for vacuum and electrical conceptual infants like myself. He provides part numbers, such as:
-a Dodge Dakota variant of the one-way vacuum canister, P/N 4677204
-a potential Mitsubishi part that may serve the same function, P/N MD125817
Most that come across the JDM Cyclone intake will have the white canister that comes with it, but it is a necessary component ("imperative").
The sub-options he provides are for getting rpm signal to the FPR solenoid (Does FPR stand for fuel purge regulator? I am missing this conceptual piece also):

1. DSMLink / ECMLink, using nitrous controls in pp23-24 of the pdf manual. The description provides that using ECMlink will override the controls to the FPR solenoid using this nitrous setting, so the stock wiring setup from ECU to FPR will stay as is. This method allows you to change your rpm activation with your tuning setup, and is the most elegant solution. I will be shooting for this once I make my leap to ECMlink in the near future.

1.a. It should be mentioned that another frequently mentioned smooth solution involves the use of flashing an EPROM, or purchasing one of keydivers chips with the EGR reprogrammed to function at a different rpm. This will require further research, as I don't know what options there are for flashing a custom chip aside from keydivers, and based on his website, he is no longer selling chips.​

2. RPM Activated switch, Summit Racing SUM-830449 - Summit Racing® RPM-Activated Switches - Overview - SummitRacing.comSummit racing SUM-830449[/URL], or MSD RPM activated switch. This will more than likely be my interim solution, as it will allow me to directly control the rpm activation, but without the investment (at this time) into a programmable EMS/ECU replacement. Based on what Agent11br has said, the Summit option appears more attractive as it is cheaper, and uses dip switches and dials rather than 'pills' (whatever that means) to get the job done while still giving direct control

3. Shift light solution. With my conceptual limitations and Agent11br's description, this sounded like a nearly identical option to the RPM activated switch, but with added cost and a light that I have no desire for.

This is where I reached the end of my research, and I think I have found a solution that works. If I get ambitious, and this project happens soon, I will record and post a video of the solution that helps explain how the installation looks and how it works (bounded, unfortunately, by my limited knowledge of it) in the instructional videos.

Good luck to all you cyclone freaks out there!

 

[Absit]

Best post by a probationary member, ever. This is what you should have to do to move from probationary to proven.

And FPR Solenoid is the Fuel Pressure Regulator Solenoid.

 

[mjecha]

Thanks for reading, Absit. Seems my camera may be back soon, so hopefully I will make some progress and have pictures or video this weekend.

Good luck, fellow cycloners!