420a engine swap.. help. :]

[dstarM]

okay so i've done my research with the whole 420a to 4g63t and decided not to go down that route, because i don't feel like dropping 15k just to get it right.

BUT!

... I heard that you can swap a 420a for the new evoX engine the (4b11t) much easier, because the motor mounts are basically the same all you need are just extensions.

if anyone knows more about this please help me out is it just a rumor or can this be done quicker and more cost efficient than the 4g63t?

thanks!

 

[95talongirl]

I have not heard anything about this.... But you are correct, the new EVO's engine layout is the same as the 420A cars... I also beleive the EVO 8/9 is, as well. The other difference I now of is the X's exhaust manifold is on the firewall side vs. coming off the front. That would be something else to consider.

I think one of your main problems would be getting ahold of an EVO X drivetrain for cheap? I'd imagine you'll be paying alot since its still new. Are the tranmissions the same between the older EVO and the X, or for that matter does the DSM have the same bolt pattern on the bell housing? You'll have to find that out, too!

 

[dstarM]

I have not heard anything about this.... But you are correct, the new EVO's engine layout is the same as the 420A cars... I also beleive the EVO 8/9 is, as well. The other difference I now of is the X's exhaust manifold is on the firewall side vs. coming off the front. That would be something else to consider.

I think one of your main problems would be getting ahold of an EVO X drivetrain for cheap? I'd imagine you'll be paying alot since its still new. Are the tranmissions the same between the older EVO and the X, or for that matter does the DSM have the same bolt pattern on the bell housing? You'll have to find that out, too!

thanks 95talongirl! i didn't even think of some of these things, ill have to find out about the transmissions i do know that 2007 evo models and up use the 4b11t but idk if it will be cheaper to get a hold of the older ones or not, and ill look into the pattern on the bell housing.

thanks!

 

[95talongirl]

Anytime! There's quite a bit to consider when using a driveline from a different car. Another question would be are you planning on making it AWD? That will bring in a whole new level of problems! And if not, you would be pretty much limited to using the old DSM transmission, since I don't think there's a FWD version of the EVO X. At least that I know of.

Oh yeah... what about electronics? Standalone would be your best bet... this way you don't have to mess around with all the anti-theft, and other B.S. that is programmed into the new cars computers these days. I know wth some cars you'd have to use the dash, as well if you plan on using the newer electornics, since for example, the odometer is programmed into the cluster (or body controller..and/or PCM) and if there a mismatch, the car won't run.

Some people to look at for inspiration would be the dodge neon guys that have used the SRT4 driveline in the 95-99 neons. I've seen some that use the entire dash and electronics form the donor car and those that use standalone. I know of some people that have ued the SRT4 engine in the even older turbo mopars (daytonas, shadows, omnis, ect); most of those people used standalone.

 

[dstarM]

oh man haha there's a lot I didn't think of , but maybe i could just build my 420a? i mean it wouldn't be a bad thing as long as it's done right and not with a cheap e-bay t3/t4 turbo, and I could just upgrade all my internals and what not, that would prob. be the easier way of going. I'm sure I can see nice numbers with my 420a..

.. i hope haha

 

[95talongirl]

Yea, you can build your 420A. I know some people will tell you it's not worth it, than again is the swap worth it? It's all up to you. If you don't mind the challenge that is FWD drag racing, then I say for go it!

Your main issue with the n/a engine (like most n/a cars) is the lower end. They can handle some boost, but you won't be able to run the same boost levels as a factory turbo car. You'll need the basics that all boosted cars need: WB o2, fuel system, setup (FPR, injectors, pump..), something to tune with. I wouldn't recommend the SAFC for you since the n/a cars run speed density vs. a MAF. It'll work, but not as well. Oh yeah.. and turbo, intercooler and such! So yea, still looking at some $$$, but it will be cheaper for you than a drivetrain swap. Invest in slicks too.

oh the options!

 

[dstarM]

haha oh man, or i could take the easy way out..

..i was thinking of buying 2006 evo MR plus my car has 130k miles on it. i might just go with the evo

 

[GTOJohnny67]

My friend turbo'd his 420A. I thought he did it a very smart way. He Junk yarded a 420 motor and trans. for $300 bucks. Rebuilt the motor and trans. to hold the power of the "I think 60trim" he put on it. Then swapped it into his car over a weekend. Wiring the Mega Squirt to make every thing run took about another week total. I wanna say he only had about $2500 in every thing. It runs like a bat out of hell, and his car was only off the road for a week.

 

[bagged420a]

I find it funny you looked into swapping evo motors in before looking at turboing what you have. And why is there even a debate about keeping a fwd or buying an awd? If you have the money for an evo definately go that route, no brainer.

 

[dstarM]

yea i know, but this eclipse was when i didn't have that much money and it was my first car haha, but i dont need 2 cars/dont want 2 cars, ill be sad for like a week then get over it if decide to get the evo.

My friend turbo'd his 420A. I thought he did it a very smart way. He Junk yarded a 420 motor and trans. for $300 bucks. Rebuilt the motor and trans. to hold the power of the "I think 60trim" he put on it. Then swapped it into his car over a weekend. Wiring the Mega Squirt to make every thing run took about another week total. I wanna say he only had about $2500 in every thing. It runs like a bat out of hell, and his car was only off the road for a week.

that's a good idea actually, he just went to a local junk yard?

 

[martindoom]

Anybody has a build blog on how to do this? Or just documented it?

 

[Clinical]

I find it funny you looked into swapping evo motors in before looking at turboing what you have. And why is there even a debate about keeping a fwd or buying an awd? If you have the money for an evo definately go that route, no brainer.

If I had the money for an Evo, I'd put the money into a DSM.
Unless you're ralying / autocrossing - stick with a DSM.

There isn't an evo faster than the fastest DSM in the 1/4 mile

Way cheaper cars too

 

[2000mitsygt]

I agree put the money into your dsm. You will appreciate it 1000 times more because you built it. Anybody with money can buy an evo and you can't find a used one for less than 20-25 grand that wasn't beat on. you can get easy 300-350hp out of a nt with 10-15 grand and the best part is everything in that car is performance and you know whats in it and what oil was used and how well it was taken care of. Youll appreciate it more and they look nicer and are much more rare and at 2200-2600 pounds even 250-300 hp is fast, well fast enough unless your taking it to the track

 

[GSTurbo1]

I went down building the 420a motor. Honestly you will need to oring your motor.

 

[jayson427]

I made a build thread for guys just like you my friend. Search my 420a all motor journey! I ran into a lot of issues doing my first build. I haven't updated for a while which I should since I'm gathering parts to go to turbo! I have always told myself if I put 30k into my 420a instead of buying an evo or similar it would be way faster and mean a lot more to me.

 

[Miasma]

I used to have a turbo'd 420a in my car that I ran for about a year.

I am now building a 2.4 evo 8 motor to swap into my car, the mounting position is the same as evoX. But the cost is far less. I used a 2003 Mitsubishi Outlander 4g64 block that I picked up for $100 in perfect shape. Can get an evo 8 head for $450-600 depending on how much you look around. My motor is fully build, but still need to finish the head.

I'm going to use AEM EMS 4 and run my own engine harness, combined between the factory 420a harness and a evo 8 harness.

I am also doing a full awd swap into my car. This build is by no means cheap, but by shopping around and looking for deals you can find great deals. My car will be one of few 420a-4g awd swapped cars, but thats not the reason I'm doing it. I'm doing it because I had already invested so much time in my gs that I couldn't part with it just to get a gst or gsx. I enjoy a challenge, and with time you can do anything.

Don't be afraid to do what you want, when others say it's a bad idea.

My only recommendation is to avoid the EVOX motor, simply because of cost. Go with 8 or 9, but keep in mind that if you go MIVEC thats more tuning to work out, and mivec can be less desirable when drag racing, however it is great for autox.

Feel free to ask any questions about the build.

 

[jayson427]

Interesting Miasma so what trans and axles are you going to use? For the awd what transfer cases and brackets with what driveline? This is something I have never read about where did you get the idea? Hope you start a build thread.

 

[Miasma]

Interesting Miasma so what trans and axles are you going to use? For the awd what transfer cases and brackets with what driveline? This is something I have never read about where did you get the idea? Hope you start a build thread.

After I first got the idea, I seen some info about it from guys in Thailand who have done similar swaps. It kind of just came to me one day when I was working on my car trying to decide what I wanted to do, and been running with it since. Spent more time researching than anything.

I'm using the 5 speed transmission from a evo 8 as well, along with t-case. That being said the axles need to be custom fit. The splines are different in the tranny than the ones for the front hubs. So I will be using the 420a axles crossed with the evo axles. My brother works at a shop that builds suspension and axles everyday and they will be able to do it for about $100 each.

I will be using a dsm awd rear end, same as any fwd-awd swap, but I still need to find out if I can use a evo tranny/t-case with a dsm rear diff. The gear ratios may be different, which in that case I'd have to use a evo diff.

My initial building process is to get the car running fwd first and then swap in the rear end (one piece at a time), but to do this I will have swap in a welded front diff.

I haven't gotten to the mounting brackets yet, but will determine the best route to go and may need to cut and re-weld the factory locations.

I haven't posted a build thread here yet, because I'm waiting till I get into the fun stuff to show everyone. I have a thread on a local forum, but haven't put much on there about the driveline yet. It mainly consists of the body restoration I have done thus far. I've done all the work on this project myself, so although it will take long it's worth it.

97 Eclipse (EVO) - BoostedAlberta Forums

I just started the evo swap at the beginning of this summer and plan to take another year on it, seeing as I need to manage my budget with having a family