2nd gear kinda grinds and sometimes pops out after a rebuild. (clutch & cable are ok)

[mikyrc]

Hi guys, I have a problem.
I got a used 2G tranny and rebuild it myself.
I checked all synchros tolerances and decided to replace 2ng gear synchro along with all the bearings (including the ones beneath the gears) and all seals.

The tranny shifts perfect on every gear but not into 2nd.
Once in a while (maybe once a day or every two days) It pops out as soon as I relase de clutch and give throttle.
Also It kinda grinds most of the time. Is not a usual grinding like when the synchros are completelly worn, it's like you feel the gear teeth grabbing, on the stick. It seems that when hot it goes a bit better or at first try when cold is ok too.

Clutch is properly adjusted.
Shifting cables are properly adjusted too (now).

BUT, at first when I was testing the car after the rebuild I had the cables not very well adjusted and the 2ng gear was grinding and poping every time I was releasing the clutch.
I think I tried a pair of times be hard on the shifter trying to put 2nd gear.
Could I mess the synchro doing this?

I read that post and I got a bit scared:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drivetrain-tech/258853-2nd-gear-grinds-new-tre-rebuild-need-help.html

Any help?

 

[mikyrc]

Found that the 1st/2nd gear fork is worn a lot on the 2nd gear side.
Also the 3rd/4th fork has freeplay on the two outer guides.

So that explains the poping out 2nd gear. But does it also cause the weird grinding while shifting to 2nd?
Moving the hub by hand see the synchro brakes perfectly the gear. So I assume that with new forks all will be ok, right?

 

[viperlp01]

It might grind for a while just for the fact that they are breaking them selves in. My tre grinded into every gear for about 300 miles. Just a soft grind and it is also cold in michigan. Once it warmed up it was good. Now it only grinds alittle when it is super cold. I would say it needs to be broken in.

 

[mikyrc]

I just finished puting back the tranny and now I can't get into any gear with the engine running! :-(

I also replaced the solid hub organic disc for a XTD 6 puck sprung ceramic one.

What's wrong now??

It seems it could be the clutch not releasing completelly, but the car starts grabbing around half way of the pedal, and not right after the floor.
Could be a bent disc? (from the factory)

I'll try to adjust the clutch again, but I'm at the limit of master cylinder "pump up".

 

[mikyrc]

Hey guys hope somebody can help me diagnose the problem.

I just installed back the tranny with the new XTD 6 puck sprung clutch.
And now the car won't go in any gear with the engine running.

I've tried to adjust the master cyl rod and clutch pedal and now like 2 of 10 tries i can put 2nd gear in.
So It seems that if I could make the slave cyl rod travel further more, the problem would be solved.

Just for your info:
- I'm using a 2G trannie and 2G slave cylinder.
- Master cyl is like 300 miles new.
- Clutch pedal can't go more towards the seat because I've the clutch switch as backed out as it could be.
- Master cyl rod can't be adjusted further in because then it "pumps up".
- Today I replaced the rubber line for a SS one. And no improvement.
- The clutch fork doesn't touch the bell when pressing the clutch.
- The clutch fork rests at middle when not pressing the clutch. (It's shimmed)
- The Flywheel was resurfaced, but with the old (but new) organic solid clutch disc I didn't had that problem.
- I'm using a Competition clutch pressure plate.
- New throw out bearing (teflon one)
- The clutch grabs at 1/4 of travel from the floor.
- I've checked the tranny bolts (to the block) and all of them are tight.
- I bleeded the system 2 times. Opening the bleeder and letting it drip.
- I put a bit of grease on the tranny input shaft splines but not on the clutch disc splines. Hope that's enough.

Could be that the 2G slave cyl needs more fluid to expand the same amount as a 1G one would do?

A bent clutch disc?

Maybe I could grind the clutch pedal a bit so it can come a bit more towards me and then be able to adjust the master cyl rod a bit more towards the engine without so it deosnt "pump up".

What do you guys think is the problem?

 

[mikyrc]

It's an old post but just wanted to update it.
The poping problem was a worn fork.
And the clutch not disengaging was due to the 2G slave cylinder. 2G slave cyls have larger piston diameter so it needs more fluid to travel the same. That cause the stock 1G master cyl to not have enough pump to move the slave the correct amount.
So, making long story short, NEVER use a 2G slave cylinder on a 1G!!!

 

[twicks69]

It's an old post but just wanted to update it.
The poping problem was a worn fork.
And the clutch not disengaging was due to the 2G slave cylinder. 2G slave cyls have larger piston diameter so it needs more fluid to travel the same. That cause the stock 1G master cyl to not have enough pump to move the slave the correct amount.
So, making long story short, NEVER use a 2G slave cylinder on a 1G!!!

When you replaced the 1/2 shift fork and the synchro, did you inspect the 2nd gear dog teeth to make sure they weren't worn down? The gear edges need to be pointed and without burrs. As well, if the 1/2 hub and slider are worn down, it will cause engagement and popout issues.

In the picture below, you want your gear engagement dog teeth to look like this -- nice and sharp pointed edges so the hub and slider properly engage. You want to have little to no wear on the hub and slider (slider engagement teeth). If it looks like the picture below, then your hub and slider will need to be replaced, as the slider is totally destroyed.

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I hope that the shift fork took care of the problems, and that this information will make it easier to inspect in the future while rebuilding.