2 issues...one very odd

[cliffkemp]

I have 2 issues with my laser, now that I have it running without shutting off on me.

#1: When I make changes to link, v3, it does well while I am running that particular session. The next time I start the car, I will have an odd idle issue where it is very rich. It will idle around 750 or so and, it will be around 12 or so for the afr. When I go to adjust for this, it will return to 14.6 to 14.9 shortly after I sit at an idle. I will have to put everything back on the MAFComp to where I had it to begin with. This is just strange.

#2: This one is electrical. I can drive the car just about anywhere for just about any amount of time. When I come to a stop and turn the car off, fill with gas or just leave it off for a min or 2 or, sometimes, for nearly an hour, I will come back out and try to crank it and no crank. I will check the starter connections, fuse boxes, and just check the wires in general and put the key back in and try to start. When I do this (10 to 30 seconds later) the car has power but no start. I will just sit there and wait another 10 to 20 seconds (after I take the key out) and put the key back in and, it either turns over or just starts up like it is not big deal. Any thoughts on this? Nothing is loose....that I know of. I will check it again when I get another day off of work.

For issue #1, I am going to try to download a log so I can get some opinions on it and why my 02 is not cycling, but it works. It is not locked in open loop. I get the concept of tuning, for the most part but, I know I am missing something and could use a little guidence.

thank you

 

[turbojoeg]

Id like to see a log if you can get one up
And do you here your starter click when you turn the key? Like its coming out just not spinning?

 

[josh1095]

when i did my battery relocate, link did some crazy shit on me. would erase changes i had made, forget to log a ton of stuff, wouldnt emulate narrowband, wouldnt see my lc-1. list goes on and on. bad ground was the problem. they have to have a ton of grounds when running 1 wire(pos) to the trunk and using chassis as ground. just a thought. GL bro

 

[cliffkemp]

Id like to see a log if you can get one up
And do you here your starter click when you turn the key? Like its coming out just not spinning?

The log is in the attached file at the bottom of the page. The starter is fine. The battery acts like it goes dead then comes back to life. I am sure it is a loose connection but, not sure where to look. It only seems to do it when the car is warmed up. Usually takes about 3 minutes for the car to be able to start. When it is cold, it starts up every time. I do hear a clicking but, will sound funny, it is coming from behind me like it is the fuel pump or motor for the seat belt. It is strange, to say the least. My battery is still in stock location but, it is not locked down as it should be....fixing that this week too. My battery tray broke.

when i did my battery relocate, link did some crazy shit on me. would erase changes i had made, forget to log a ton of stuff, wouldnt emulate narrowband, wouldnt see my lc-1. list goes on and on. bad ground was the problem. they have to have a ton of grounds when running 1 wire(pos) to the trunk and using chassis as ground. just a thought. GL bro

Thank you. I will check for wiring on my next day off. It is probably something at the battery or fuse box. So far, link has been a little kinder to me but, not by much. The idle thing is weird. It saves everything every time but, acts like it is not engauging the changes from time to time on the idle part and, when I let off the clutch, I will have a lean spot around 2k where it just wants to die from being so lean for a second, then kicks in. Once the car is warmed up, it is not as noticeable and runs pretty good.

 

[josh1095]

cliff, i reviewed the log a bit. on a side note, i havent had much time to learn and get to play with link myself before my 300 mile engine bit the dust(bearings fml). i reviewed your timing DA tables. boy, ive got some tinkering to do when i get mine back . my timing is so insanely conservative compared to yours. you were running 93 in that log correct? i have stock timing and fuel tables so its pig rich and pulls a god awful amount of spark timing.
anyway, sorry to jack your thread. please keep us posted on what you find electrically, i would think the problem lies there and thanks for posting the log. gave me some food for thought. hope others can chime in and help as well. good luck bro.

 

[cliffkemp]

cliff, i reviewed the log a bit. on a side note, i havent had much time to learn and get to play with link myself before my 300 mile engine bit the dust(bearings fml). i reviewed your timing DA tables. boy, ive got some tinkering to do when i get mine back . my timing is so insanely conservative compared to yours. you were running 93 in that log correct? i have stock timing and fuel tables so its pig rich and pulls a god awful amount of spark timing.
anyway, sorry to jack your thread. please keep us posted on what you find electrically, i would think the problem lies there and thanks for posting the log. gave me some food for thought. hope others can chime in and help as well. good luck bro.

Thanks man. Yes, I am running 93 in the car. I will let you know when I find the electrical issue as well. Sorry to hear about your car....hope you get it running again soon!

 

[Calan]

Something strange is definitely going on. The front o2 sensor doesn't look like it's working, yet the ECU is dropping in and out of open loop. It could be related to your other electrical issues.

What size injectors are you running, and why are your fuel sliders so messed up?

Are you running a GM MAF with the ECMLink cable? It doesn't look like MAFComp has been adjusted either.

 

[cliffkemp]

Something strange is definitely going on. The front o2 sensor doesn't look like it's working, yet the ECU is dropping in and out of open loop. It could be related to your other electrical issues.

What size injectors are you running, and why are your fuel sliders so messed up?

Are you running a GM MAF with the ECMLink cable? It doesn't look like MAFComp has been adjusted either.

I am running 650 FIC injectors. I have the fuel sliders to take away fuel during boost because it was running so rich at those rpms that it was causing rich knock. Currently it is running mid to low 10s at around 18 psi or so, according to the boost gauge.

I am running a gm maf. 3 inch. I adjusted the MAFComp at idle so that my afr is around 14.7 at those hz. There was not much adjustment to them and went by the rough estimate that link's tutorial showed. My engine is a 2.3L and not sure what all is different from the tutorial and I know I am missing something. I tried to get a decent sized log to view all kinds of driving from idle to boost and part throttle so you could see what all it was doing. The CombinedFt only adjust some of the time. My 02 sensor is working but, not working. It is strange. I am not sure what to do as using link is not familiar with me. I used to use a MAFT and it was easier but, timing became an issue at the power levels of the turbo I have. Link should be able to fix this but, not used to the system.

Thank you for looking at the log. Feel free to ask my anything and will answer as best as I can.

 

[josh1095]

i would guess his fuel sliders are messed up because he did the same thing i did: he didnt adjust the DA maxoct tables. i think it was you, calan, who pointed that out to me when i posted a log once. yea you can see if you track it his afrest is leaner than what cell its using in the DA table.

edit, sorry cliff, u beat me to it

 

[cliffkemp]

i would guess his fuel sliders are messed up because he did the same thing i did: he didnt adjust the DA maxoct tables. i think it was you, calan, who pointed that out to me when i posted a log once. yea you can see if you track it his afrest is leaner than what cell its using in the DA table.

edit, sorry cliff, u beat me to it

It is cool. There must be more to adjusting the fuel, mafcomp, and ect. than the link tutorials let on. I am not familiar with link at all so, learning a lot here so please bare with me on this. The car is running pretty good as it never goes lean really. I mainly goes rich and not too rich by moving the fuel sliders now. After looking at some of the tutorials, I realize now that there are many things that can be adjusted other than just fuel and timing.

Again, thank you for reviewing my log and will be open to suggestions until the tune gets better. Will find electrical issues as well and let you know how they go as well.

 

[Calan]

I am running 650 FIC injectors.

Ok. Assuming stock base fuel pressure, your global fuel value is correct. But, your DT looks low for those injectors. Judging from the AirflowPerRev values, you still have a lot of work to do on the MAFComp and DT adjustment.

I have the fuel sliders to take away fuel during boost because it was running so rich at those rpms that it was causing rich knock.

Then something is wrong with the airflow and/or fuel calibration. Since MAFComp hasn't been adjusted at all above 1200hz, that would explain the rich condition.

I am running a gm maf. 3 inch.

But are you running through a translator, or plugging it directly into the ECMLink cable?

If you are running through the translator (even if it's zeroed out and not being used to tune with), you need to set the MAF type to "Stock" on the MAFComp page. The only time you select one of the GM options is if you are using the ECMLink cable.

 

[Calan]

BTW - You really, REALLY need to get a wideband if you want to do any real tuning.

 

[cliffkemp]

Ok. Assuming stock base fuel pressure, your global fuel value is correct. But, your DT looks low for those injectors. Judging from the AirflowPerRev values, you still have a lot of work to do on the MAFComp and DT adjustment.



Then something is wrong with the airflow and/or fuel calibration. Since MAFComp hasn't been adjusted at all above 1200hz, that would explain the rich condition.



But are you running through a translator, or plugging it directly into the ECMLink cable?

If you are running through the translator (even if it's zeroed out and not being used to tune with), you need to set the MAF type to "Stock" on the MAFComp page. The only time you select one of the GM options is if you are using the ECMLink cable.

I am not running through a translator. I am just running the stock plug and the cable that Link provides for the gm maf. I am running the sensor just before the TB and venting to air as that is how it came.

If I adjust the Mafcomp above 1200hz, is that under load or just part load. I know the fuel sliders are for WOT or when load factor reaches a certain threshhold.

I guess what I am really asking is, in what order do you tune. I did what link said...I did injectors and deadtime at idle. Next, I pressed the gas and noted the rpms and MAFraw and moved the sliders for it at the hz stated every 500 rpms or so. Is this wrong? I was doing this for off load adjustment to keep crusing around 14.5 or so on the afr gauge. Since my 02 wont cycle, I cannot change the airperrev to .25 or whatever it should be for a 2.3L so will have to figure out the 02 issue too but, in open loop the 02 doesnt matter and tuning there, is still off as well. I have to get some sleep so, will catch up on this tomorrow after work (7pm est) I can make more logs for you all to see if needed as well. Tell me what you want to try and in what order and will do it and send a log with results.

thank you again for working with me on this!

I do have a afr digital reading meter in the car. It will read from 10 to 18 on AFR. Is this considered a narrow or wideband?

 

[Calan]

I do have a afr digital reading meter in the car. It will read from 10 to 18 on AFR. Is this considered a narrow or wideband?

It sounds like a wideband. You need to get the model name/number off of it, and it needs to be wired into the ECU so it can be logged. It is impossible to do any accurate tuning without being able to study it in a log at different RPM and load points.

You can also use a wideband to simulate the front O2 signal in ECMLink.

 

[cliffkemp]

It sounds like a wideband. You need to get the model name/number off of it, and it needs to be wired into the ECU so it can be logged. It is impossible to do any accurate tuning without being able to study it in a log at different RPM and load points.

You can also use a wideband to simulate the front O2 signal in ECMLink.

Not to sound wierd but, how do you do that? I can get the numbers off of it, if you need me to. It is an AEM digital afr meter. I am used to wiring things on larger machines. I make wire for a living. I am not used to dealing with wiring in a car with very confined space and more electronics.

How do I wire the wideband to the computer? Is that why the 02 sensor looks dead and works sporatically and does not want to log as if in closed loop mode? Also, how do you simulate? I am a visual kind of person in which if I see someone do something and able to ask questions, I pick up on things fairly quickly. Step by step and no one to 'show' me, I am a little slow so forgive me on that please.

I do want to thank you on being patient with me. I am just new to learning about tuning but, I get the basics for the most part.

 

[josh1095]

Not to sound wierd but, how do you do that? I can get the numbers off of it, if you need me to. It is an AEM digital afr meter. I am used to wiring things on larger machines. I make wire for a living. I am not used to dealing with wiring in a car with very confined space and more electronics.

How do I wire the wideband to the computer? Is that why the 02 sensor looks dead and works sporatically and does not want to log as if in closed loop mode? Also, how do you simulate? I am a visual kind of person in which if I see someone do something and able to ask questions, I pick up on things fairly quickly. Step by step and no one to 'show' me, I am a little slow so forgive me on that please.

I do want to thank you on being patient with me. I am just new to learning about tuning but, I get the basics for the most part.

ok, to simulate narrowband you need to first tell link WHAT wb you have and where it is etc. go under ecu inputs and where it says wideband change it from undefined to what input you want it to go to. i have my lc1 in the front o2 spot so i selected front o2. i cant remember the rest but you have to make sure it sees and reads the wb then click the nbsim tab and set it to simulate nb signal. something to that effect. more can be foound at ecmlink.com try that out and see if it works for you.

 

[Calan]

Not to sound wierd but, how do you do that? I can get the numbers off of it, if you need me to. It is an AEM digital afr meter. I am used to wiring things on larger machines. I make wire for a living. I am not used to dealing with wiring in a car with very confined space and more electronics.

How do I wire the wideband to the computer?

You need to do some reading. Just about everything you need can be found on the ECMLink wiki pages. The wideband installation is covered here:

Aftermarket Sensor Installation [ECMTuning - wiki]

 

[cliffkemp]

You need to do some reading. Just about everything you need can be found on the ECMLink wiki pages. The wideband installation is covered here:

Aftermarket Sensor Installation [ECMTuning - wiki]

The page you posted did explain why the car is in open loop all the time and tries to go to closed loop and cannot. The coolant temp lock is something I do not get. Is this option rendering my coolant temperature a non issue in running the car now or does it still take the temperature into account on start up and warm up to automatically adjust fuel at an idle and control the idle based partly off that sensor. It seems it does both and would explain why I am running rich on start up and lean when it is warmed up but, when hot starting, it sometimes run rich again although it is warmed up or, sometimes runs lean even when still somewhat cool...IE temp is still below 150 but above 100. I will try to see how it is currently wired as it used to run off a translator and had a defensor on it as well. This is a wiring nightmare going in after someone had it set up one way and then doing something new and not familiar with car electronics as well. I guess I am about to learn it though. It may take a little time but, I almost always figure things out in time. Electrical things just seem to take longer.

 

[Calan]

The coolant temp lock is something I do not get. Is this option rendering my coolant temperature a non issue in running the car now or does it still take the temperature into account on start up and warm up to automatically adjust fuel at an idle and control the idle based partly off that sensor.

The coolant lock is for people that are using the coolant temp input to log some other aftermarket sensor. With the stock temp sensor, that option should be left unchecked.

During warmup, the ECU will adjust fuel delivery based on values it gets from the CoolantTempFuelAdj DA table, along with other factors such as being in open/closed loop, battery voltage, etc.

Post up an idle log from when you first start the car until it's warmed up. Be sure to capture battery and ISCPosition.

 

[cliffkemp]

The coolant lock is for people that are using the coolant temp input to log some other aftermarket sensor. With the stock temp sensor, that option should be left unchecked.

During warmup, the ECU will adjust fuel delivery based on values it gets from the CoolantTempFuelAdj DA table, along with other factors such as being in open/closed loop, battery voltage, etc.

Post up an idle log from when you first start the car until it's warmed up. Be sure to capture battery and ISCPosition.

I will post that for you tomorrow. I looked at other logs and looks as if my 02 is going out and that is why it is not cycling. I have a new one but, they are a butt to get loose. I may have to do that at a later date.

I do have a slight issue and it may be due to the 02 sensor. When I am driving, at around 1500 to 2500 rpms at light to moderate throttle....say 1% to 20% TPS, it tries to run lean and knock. No matter how I adjust the Mafraw or maf, it will try to go lean in that range. All other rpm ranges, it does just fine and a little rich in some cases. It did this when I had the Maft as well....not as bad though then. I have had knock as bad as 7-8 degrees and makes my cel come on due to this as I have it set up to come on if it is 5 or above. I am thinking it will do better when I get the 02 replaced... Does that sound accurate?

Also, why are my mafraw hertz so much higher than most other logs I have seen. Is this due to having a 2.3L engine. Mine will idle around 600 to 700.

Lastly, on the timing table, how does that work actually? If you pull timing, isnt that the same as advancing it enough to where the plugs fire closer to TDC? Reason I ask is because I was wondering if I could pull some timing in the above mentioned rpm range to cut down on knock? Just a temperary fix til it get the sensor replaced. The knock does not happen that often but, I do not like any knock and until I have the time to fix the sensor and go from there, I wanted to get your opinion on it.

Thanks

Cliff

 

[Calan]

Post up a log of the knock happening.

Also, any luck on getting that wideband(?) hooked up to a spare ECU input and logged in ECMLink?

 

[cliffkemp]

Post up a log of the knock happening.

Also, any luck on getting that wideband(?) hooked up to a spare ECU input and logged in ECMLink?

Not yet, I had to do a lot of driving today to get my rx8 from atlanta. I had the fluids changed. I did get a log of the idle and have a log with knock on it.

The lean spot I mentioned...is that because the stock computer is calibrated for a 14b and stock engine? Since the onset of boost is 2k and full boost at 3k when stock, is the reason for my lean spot due to this? My setup is a green and a 2.3L. When I am at light to mid throttle at around 1800 to 3k rpms, this is when I see the most knock usually. Above that, I see very little and could be just phantom knock as it is usually less than a degree. I may be just over analyzing this though. It was just an observation.

I looked at the wiring for the AFR and, it is like a spider web. The car has some sort of relay system that I have never seen before on a car and tracing the wires is almost impossible. Also, I about to take out the 02 sensor and replace it and realized that I had a 22mm with a 1/2 inch drive and only 3/8 drivers. Another day to tackle this I guess.