1G Suspension Setup

[neuralracing]

Anyone have any opinions on Koni Yellows vs KYB AGX's? Big diference in price and availability... as far as I have seen the yellows are not available in most DSM sites.

 

[Dieselboy]

Originally posted by Dieselboy
They are both good brands. Either set and a good set of quality drop springs will yield good handling.

We have already discussed this, what more do you need to know???

 

[neuralracing]

oooppssss... didn't remember seeing that... Thanks Diesel..

Any opinions on the Ground Control Coil-over Kit for the 1G... rather than buying Eibach Springs?

 

[Dieselboy]

GCC's are fully adjustable. Any fully adjustable coilover spring will be better than just drop springs.

 

[neuralracing]

Noticeable difference between the Ground Controls and a JIC Coil Over set?

 

[Dieselboy]

GCC are simply a coilover adjustable spring . JIC's, Tein's, etc. are full coilover suspension setups (springs and struts).

 

[neuralracing]

Ohhhh... I didnt know that JIC included the Struts for the price... so in essence what we are talking about here is about $1600 for a JIC setup while the KYB's and GCC would probably be like $850... so basically we are talking double... not to bad if what I hear in terms of performance difference between the two setups.

 

[Dieselboy]

The JIC, Teins, etc. setups are coilover springs and shocks fully balanced and fully adjustable. The GCC's will run about $400-$500 and KYB AGX's will be about $350-$450. So yes, in essense your getting the same thing for half the price.

 

[neuralracing]

Is it half the performance also are are the results very similar?

 

[ecugrad]

Get the Koni's and spend the extra $$. Pass on the AGX's, they have a way too harsh ride for the street.

I have the Koni's and Ground Controls and am VERY pleased. I have ran almost 30 autox events and 2 days on track at VIR on my setup. The car still has WAY more speed than I can pull out of it.

Unless you are VERY serious about autoxing at a National level or serious road raciing, the JIC/Tiens are a bit of overkill. The Koni's/GC's will do just fine. Spend more adjusting the loose nut behind the steering wheel.

Ryan

 

[DragonKnight]

I'm pretty much using close to the same setup as Mike Croutcher's suspension setup in his Street Modified autocrossing ride:

http://www.wincom.net/trog/autocross/1G_SM.html

Doing pretty okay on the autocross though I've been autocrossing most of the season in my Celica. Planning on giving the Laser a try for the 2004 season in STX. I also plan on running at the open track on The Streets of Willow Springs sooner or later.

Rich

 

[fidke]

I had the AGXs and they seemed a bit too long for a lowered car (it might have been my old sagging springs too though ). Anyway, there wasn't enough travel and I locked up the front wheels under hard braking because the front shocks bottomed out ... scared the living crap out of me. Hasn't happened since I switched to JICs, even with standing on the brakes from ~110 mph to slow for a 2nd gear turn. I think the konis are shorter too, so they should have more travel than the AGX.

 

[DragonKnight]

Lol, yah...I found the front AGX's a wee bit too long. Had to cut the bumpstops a lot more than I thought I needed too. Trimmed the spring perches off (stock location ones). Got it lowered enough using the GC's. So it worked well enough. Thought I might ask RRE to see if they can hook me up with a set of shortened front Koni's for me since I already have AGX rears. But we'll see. Need to get a feel for them this upcoming season first.

 

[Turbo Shogun]

With coilovers, you need to cut the perch that comes with the shock, and weld on the threaded perch so you can adjust ride height, correct?

 

[NDgsx]

You guys need to read some more on suspension, start here:
http://tinyurl.com/wxgq

The first thing you have to decide on is what tire you are going to use. Will you be doing track days on a street tire like the KD, MX, Azenis, etc.. or will you be running on a set of actual race tires, RA1, victoracers, etc... (I left out hoosier because I doubt many on here can afford them ).
Aside from weight distribution our major problem with 1Gs is that the front end of the car does not really have much of a camber curve at all. When the body rolls the amount of negative camber chance is not great enough to keep the contact patch flat relative to the road. So we increase our roll stiffness (and typically increase static negative camber) to reduce suspension movement (and body roll) while cornering in an effort to keep the contact patch as wide as possible.
All else equal body roll will increase when the amount of lateral adhesion increases. So even though you may have switched to a tire with a higher coefficent of friction, and you very well may have increased your cornering G force, without suspension changes you haven't realized to full potential amount of grip available.

Ok to the point, your suspension needs to be designed around your tires. Stickier tires will require more roll stiffness (or more static negative camber, but I try to run as little as possible in favor of more grip braking). If you are running real race tires your average lowering springs really aren't going to cut it. If you're running on street tires you may do OK with standard lowering springs.
The first thing to decide is the tires.
As for dampers, AGXs suck. KYB makes shitty cheap shocks. They have to much compression dampening IMHO. For standard lowering springs konis do much better. However konis are not valved very well for high spring rates, so if you end with GC coilovers and the typical dsm spring rates they won't work so well. I had konis with 450lb/375lb GCCs and they didn't have enough rebound dampening. If you want to run high spring rates and can't afford JICs, etc... then AGXs are your only real option.

hope that helps some