18G w/ 8cm2 housing

[dsm-onster]

I'm wondering if I should go with an 8cm2 housing (or an internally gated bullseye housing). I am aware A/R effects the powerband. I'd like to know where full boost will come on; where the powerband will shift to. Does anyone have any experience with a setup similar to this? Has anyone upgraded to an 8 cm2 housing with their EVO3 16G or 20G? Or would it be the same just to clip the turbine wheel? I would rather not clip.

 

[Stapl3]

I would look at it as a downgrade than an upgrade. People take 8cm^2 housings off their FP Reds in favour of a 7cm^2 one. The spool is said to be way better with power up top unnoticably different.

 

[dsm-onster]

I would look at it as a downgrade than an upgrade. People take 8cm^2 housings off their FP Reds in favour of a 7cm^2 one. The spool is said to be way better with power up top unnoticably different.

That is what i wanted to hear. I was going to rephrase and ask this: How much horsepower can the 7 cm2 flow?

 

[BaddAssGst]

I would look at it as a downgrade than an upgrade. People take 8cm^2 housings off their FP Reds in favour of a 7cm^2 one. The spool is said to be way better with power up top unnoticably different.

Yeah, I have heard this as well that up top you wouldn't notice as much of a difference but you would definitely see the spool time affected.

 

[GVR4592]

My brother ran an 18g with an 8cm housing and it would make 20 psi before 3800.

 

[1SloColt]

My 18g had a clipped turbine wheel and it still spooled like a damn 14b. The 7cm^2 housing should be good enough for an 18g. My bullseye housing on my sc61 is fairly large btw and would be a nice choice for a mitsu turbo if say you are running a small housing. Here's a good pic of the housing

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[dsm-onster]

My 18g had a clipped turbine wheel and it still spooled like a damn 14b. The 7cm^2 housing should be good enough for an 18g. My bullseye housing on my sc61 is fairly large btw and would be a nice choice for a mitsu turbo if say you are running a small housing. Here's a good pic of the housing

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Did you by any chance run your 18g before it was ported? Why did you go to the sc61? was the 18g not flowing enough where you wanted it to? I don't see any mention of your cams. I forgot if you said you had upgraded cams when we talked about your car?

 

[Stapl3]

scm61 and 18g is like comparing a s10 to a gmc fullsize. It's just apples to oranges.

The bullseye housing is big. Real big. Too big for a Mitsu turbo IMO. You should be switching between 6cm^2 and 7cm^2 housings on your 18g to see which you like the best.

 

[dsm-onster]

scm61 and 18g is like comparing a s10 to a gmc fullsize. It's just apples to oranges.

The bullseye housing is big. Real big. Too big for a Mitsu turbo IMO. You should be switching between 6cm^2 and 7cm^2 housings on your 18g to see which you like the best.

Bullseye says that their housings are a hair smaller than 8 cm2. I am confused. If the 8cm2 housing is too big for the 18g wheel then why does Greddy sell the 18g with an 8cm2 housing? I know clipping will increase your upper range flow but hurt you efficiency. I am wondering if this is why Greddy sells these turbos with bigger turbine a/r so that they will pull up top better without the decrease in efficiency. I am just confused... I may have to call FP to get the lowdown... i think they sell an 8cm2 18G as well...

 

[1SloColt]

Did you by any chance run your 18g before it was ported? Why did you go to the sc61? was the 18g not flowing enough where you wanted it to? I don't see any mention of your cams. I forgot if you said you had upgraded cams when we talked about your car?

I never ran the 18g before it was clipped. I bought the sc61 cause the 18g compressor wheel i had was beat up and I wanted to be able a trap really high since its a FWD. Plus the larger turbo creates more lag and thats what I was shooting for so it wouldn't hit real hard like the 18g and blow the tires, of course with all the added HP it still spins them bad but the car has major topend now. I run stock 1990 dsm cams, they are awful. That will be my next upgrade. I think a bullseye housing on an 18g wouldn't be too bad actually. It would be really good on a 20g I believe.

 

[Stapl3]

Bullseye says

Don't listen to a word they say. They are the worst company in the DSM community hands down.

I don't know why Greedy uses what they use. I also can't figure out why Hahn uses 10cm^2 housings. All I know is what people used with what and how they work in real life.

A 7cm^2 housing is more than enough for a 20g. My dream turbo setup is a tdo5h 20g with a 6cm^2 housing.

If a 7cm^2 housing is perfect for a FP Red and a 8cm^2 is too large for it, then why would it be considered for a 20g?

 

[dsm-onster]

Don't listen to a word they say. They are the worst company in the DSM community hands down.

I don't know why Greedy uses what they use. I also can't figure out why Hahn uses 10cm^2 housings. All I know is what people used with what and how they work in real life.

A 7cm^2 housing is more than enough for a 20g. My dream turbo setup is a tdo5h 20g with a 6cm^2 housing.

If a 7cm^2 housing is perfect for a FP Red and a 8cm^2 is too large for it, then why would it be considered for a 20g?

Forced Performance Red turbos use an entirely different flowing turbine wheel (TD06H: entirely differenct efficiency map for that turbine (not compressor) wheel) than the TD05H wheel. That is why these guys are getting away with 7cm2 housings and enjoying the spool with out that much loss up top.

However, I'd like to keep my TD05H turbine wheel and I was wondering if going to the 8 cm2 housing does the same as clipping the TD05H wheel (in the 7cm2 housing) that FP does for thier 450whp 20g. I know clipping is done to increase the VE and shift the powerband and I know increasing the A/R does the same thing. Since FP clips their TD05H 20G that utilizes the 7cm2 housing, then I am thinking that going to a larger A/R will do the same thing. Do you get where I'm trying to go? Thanx for helping me "brain experiment".

 

[dsm-onster]

I've been looking at the TD06H turbine wheel coupled with the 18G compressor wheel (FP sells this with the 7cm2 housing unclipped). I think this would give me the flow where I want it (i have FP2Xs). I believe that changing to a TD06H wheel will be similar to upgrading the turbine housing or clipping (ofwhich neither increase turbine efficiency: suppose i want to get a 20G wheel later). I think with the right hot side tuning, the 18G wheel will give me what I want: 400whp... i know that most guys would say just go 20G but I am trying to make a statement with a seldom used turbo.

 

[1SloColt]

Stapl3, have you ever dealt with Bullseye yourself? Why do you claim they are the worst in the DSM community? I let them have my sc61 for a complete rebuild, a brand new cartridge and there turbine housing. We discussed which parts I wanted for the rebuild under my price range and the turbo came out absolutely spectacular, better than when I bought it brand new IMO. They also threw me some pointers that most people don't know about garrett standard bearing turbos and oil pressure to make sure it doesn't blow oil past the turbine seals, like most PTE turbos experience when the oil feed comes from the filter housing. They are extremely friendly IMO and I have nothing bad to say about them. dsm-monster, the turbine housing they have is totally diesel. It weighed 5 more lbs than my old PTE turbine housing did. It is noticably larger but didn't change the way the turbo spooled at all. I can tell a difference in topend performance though and this is on stock cams and intake manifold. I don't see why their housing would be a negative for an 18g turbo. I know clipped wheels hinder spool up time and increase topend performance and thats what a larger housing is supposed to do but mine just inceased topend performance and spooled the same. But like stapl3 said, comparing an sc61 to a 18g is gonna be a lot different. I think you'll see an increase in spool up time but definitely an increase in topend power. Have you thought about just going with a larger turbo?

 

[dsm-onster]

I think you'll see an increase in spool up time but definitely an increase in topend power.

I think I will too...

Have you thought about just going with a larger turbo?

I have thought about going with a larger turbo, but, as I said, I would like to prove the 18G to be a serious contenter for a "superstreet" setup... I think I may go with the larger more efficient TD06H turbine wheel (which apparently needs no clipping to reach the 400 hp mark), balance the assembly and go. Then if I want more, I'll add the 20g wheel and balance the new assembly and be ready for bent rods .

 

[DSMraver]

I have a Frank 5 (60-trim T04E / TD06H) with an 8cm housing on a stock 6-bolt with a Magnus intake and stock cams, and I don't see any spool issues.

With a stutterbox and NLTS, spool isn't an issue. With an 18g compressor wheel, it's not going to be a lag monster, and you could pick up some gains IMO.

Why don't you call FP and ask their opinion, since they actually build and test this stuff out?

 

[dsm-onster]

With an 18g compressor wheel, it's not going to be a lag monster, and you could pick up some gains IMO.

Why don't you call FP and ask their opinion, since they actually build and test this stuff out?

I know, I know. But I'm a b@stard for theory and test. I think they'll give me the theory (afterall they do sell the 18g with a TD06H turbine on the 7cm2 housing). But, not many guys have purchsed this turbo and consequently it will probably be just theory that they can spout out (albiet, very repudable opinion). I was wondering if anyone else has done this before... If not, then I have a clean slate i guess.

 

[green92gsx]

Lowering exhaust backpressure via clipping turbine wheel or stepping up to a larger a/r turbine housing will always show peak power gains.
I've entertained the idea of swapping my 7cm with a 8cm housing to squeeze more top end out of my 18g. I can't justify spending $250 on a new unported one though.

 

[Stapl3]

Stapl3, have you ever dealt with Bullseye yourself? Why do you claim they are the worst in the DSM community?

They used to be "DSM Shop". Made the Mutt disaster, and ran off with thousands of DSMr's dollars. That's as far as I'm going in this thread about them.

If higher flowing Reds aren't seeing any uptop difference with a 8cm^2, don't be upset when your 18g doesn't either.

 

[1SloColt]

The TD06H wheel and 7cm^2 housing was purchased by one guy on here somewhere and he was trappin about 122 at like 25psi. The TD06 wheel and 7cm^2 housing is the way I would go with an 18g to be honest. That thing is a beast, true street monster.

 

[whatturbo]

I used an 18g until last week, and I was very happy with it. It was clipped 15° and had a 7cm2 ported housing. It still came on really strong and had full boost around 3800 RPM. I ran a best of 12.8 at 106 and 33lbs/min of airflow with this turbo and stock cams on pump gas. With my Comp 101-200 cams I got airflow to 36lbs/min but didn't make it to the track with that setup. I upgraded to a PTE ball bearing 60-trim because I don't run race gas, and I wanted it faster. I think it would have come to life with race gas, but I'm one of those people that want repeatable results any time. I would recommend you go with the td06h turbine wheel instead of clipping the td05h because mine had some compressor surge under any partial boost condition and low RPM high airflow conditions (5th gear WOT, or 3rd/4th gear up a hill). Good luck.

 

[dsm-onster]

They used to be "DSM Shop". Made the Mutt disaster, and ran off with thousands of DSMr's dollars. That's as far as I'm going in this thread about them.

If higher flowing Reds aren't seeing any uptop difference with a 8cm^2, don't be upset when your 18g doesn't either.

I see what you're saying. It makes sense on the surface. But, as pointed out by FP, they use TD06H compressor wheels. I think that they are not see any more flow up top because they are using a TD06H turbine wheel and an 8 cm2 turbine housing. If you put a TD06H wheel on your hot side, it will affect your overall flow in a similar fashion to clipping or upping the A/R ratio. Therefore, theoretically, you could say the FP green's and red's TD06H 7cm2 hot side has similar flow characteristics to a 8cm2 TD05H hot side.

Since TD06H + 8cm2 = TD06H + 7cm2 + clipping . . .

And, TD06H + 8cm2 = TD05H + 8cm2 + clipping . . .

Then, TD06H + 7cm2 = TD05H + clipping . . . or, TD06H + 7cm2 = TD05H + 8cm2

A TD05H with an 8cm2 housing will act like the FP green/red hot side with a 7cm2 housing

 

[Stapl3]

Where are you getting these math equations from? WTF

Do what you want. Remember, bigger isn't always better, it's been proven time and time again.

Be sure to do back to back testing so you can see how much one sucks compared to the other.

 

[dsm-onster]

Where are you getting these math equations from? WTF

Common sense WTF . Going to the TD06H wheel lets gasses flow out out of the exhaust housing more freely. Going to a larger A/R does the EXACT SAME THING. I'm showing how one equates to the other.

Do what you want. Remember, bigger isn't always better, it's been proven time and time again.

I agree. In many, many cases that's true. But a T25 cannot support HKS 264s or even 18 psi on stock internals. Bigger is much better then .

Be sure to do back to back testing so you can see how much one sucks compared to the other.

... You have experience with the 8cm2 TD05H 18G? That would be nice. It doesn't seem to make sense to think that an 8cm2 housing is useless or inferior for one particular setup when it is for an entirely different set up.

Bottem line:

I have a Ford t-bird TC with the small T3 compressor and a 0.63 A/R(which equates to around 9cm2 in MHI nomenclature) turbine wheel. what's a tiny compressor wheel doing hanging around such a large turbine housing?! Now here's the craziest thing... Ford Mustang SVO guys are trading up their 0.48 A/R (7 cm2 housing) T3s for the 9 cm2 T3s found in the TCs. WTF !!! They seam to get more horsepower WTF . Dyno proven: TurboFord.Org . What the he!! are turbos with smaller wheels than the FP reds doing giving up more horsepower with 9 cm2 housings than 7 cm2 housings ??!!

I will do back to back testing because of that reasoning... I appreciate the difference in opinion and the reasoning behind the opposition to my hypothesis.

 

[green92gsx]

If higher flowing Reds aren't seeing any uptop difference with a 8cm^2, don't be upset when your 18g doesn't either.

Eh, Hold on now. I see the path your leading but that's not factually true. Most people who did the 7cm red where looking for a street version of the turbo. It's proven lowering exhaust back pressure in the manifold should show power gains.