16g?

[JohnnyT]

I have been looking at 16g's on dsmparts and I am unsure of which one is right for me. I am not looking to break any records or have a drag monster. I want something that will be good for the street and for occasional drag and a nice upgrade from my 14b. I would like to stay with stock internals and not spend tons of $ on the turbo. So let me know what you all think. Oh and what is a safe high boost level for the 16g on the stock internals with appropriate air/fuel mix and a good tune.

 

[ZmanIV]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=271838

 

[ZmanIV]

Get that one I posted and don't forget the supporting mods and don't look back.
Check out RRE for boost levels and fuel it is an article in their tech section.

 

[Eclipse98_RS]

For safe boost on a 16g I would recommend about 9 or 10 PSI on the stock internals. Not too much, not too little. But there are going to be a few things you should upgrade if you are planning on that turbo setup. Youll need a fuel pump and injectors. (Walbro 190 with some 550 cc injectors should do the trick) You will need some kind of engine management like a S-AFCII or DSMLink. Finally I would upgrade your tranny/clutch. I know this is a lot of stuff to upgrade, but if you are going to get the turbo you should probably get this stuff too.
Is there anything im forgetting guys?

 

[ZmanIV]

Direct from the RRE website. http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclfuel.htm
You can go up to around 20 PSI with the supporting fuel mods on a 16G

 

[JohnnyT]

I will be using ds-map + datalogger and I plan on getting 650 injectors, I already have a 255lph pump and will rewire it soon. I also have a fmic and 3" turbo back exhaust with an evo III manifold. I think that should be good for supporting a 16g tell me what you think. I also have a better than stock clutch, but I will upgrade that eventually too. Oh and I was looking at the FIC 660's on ebay, are they any good, they seem to be the same as the ones on other pages.

 

[Boo5t_Addict]

If you're going to upgrade your injectors, then buying 660's instead of 650's will net you basically no difference. i don't know if DS-Map is able to compensate for larger injectors like DSMlink, but if it is, then just get 1000's, so you don't ever have to worry about upgrading. If DS-Map can't compensate for injector size, then stick with your 650's, as anything else is too big for you to run without running into complications.

 

[NATAS]

Fiddy trim ftw! I have to say that coming from numerous e316gs' to a bolt on turbo with a Garrett T4 compressor has been a great experience. I thought lag would be an issue but it's really not. Sure the turbo takes a bit longer to reach max boost, but even when it's still building boost it's flowing more than the 16g.

It definitely got me past that common 16g plateau and made my car much closer to the beast I'm hoping for. They're only about $200 more and to me that's a small price to pay for a far better experience. For pump gas I really do thing a good 50 trim is hard to beat in terms of overall value and performance on pump. I know there are plenty of better turbos, but for ease of use and a mild/moderate car they are excellent.

 

[JohnnyT]

Well, I think I will be sticking in the 16g range. And for injectors, ds-map will compensate for whatever injectors you have. So does that mean that I could run 1000cc injectors the same as 650's, would I still be able to drive it daily? Would my gas mileage suck? Or would the 1000's act like 650's if I told them to, until I needed the extra fuel?

 

[Boo5t_Addict]

Your 1000's will act like stockers until you need the flow. Meaning, if they're compensated for, then the injectors will only inject the amount of fuel you need, and you won't be running rich. For example, at idle, your stockers inject X amount of fuel. 1000 cc's, when compensated for, will only inject the same X amount of fuel. So basically, as long as you program into the tuning software that you have 1000 cc injectors, you will be perfectly fine. Then again, when you're boosting more, and have higher airflow than the 650's can support, you'll be glad you have those 1000's, as they will definitely max out the 16g while still having a lower injector duty cycle.

Injector duty cycle, or IDC is the percentage of time your injectors spend open (injecting fuel). Anything over 80% is usually not recommended, and of course 100% means that they're open 100% of the time while you're driving. The bigger the injector for the same amount of airflow and air/fuel ratio, the lower the IDC, and therefore the longer your injectors will last. Hope this helps you. For all these reasons, you may as well buy as big as you can, since you're able to compensate for the bigger injectors.

 

[JohnnyT]

Sounds good, I think I will, and it seems like the bigger injectors don't cost much more than the smaller ones.

 

[oldman420]

Keep in mind that the lowest duty cycle dsm link can compensate to is 80%. So if you plan on running 1000cc's your going to have to compensate with more boost. Now i'm not exactly sure what boost you would have to run to make 1000cc's on a 16g have a good afr, but i'de imagine it would be relativly high (closer to the twenties). So before you go out and buy 1000s right off the bat keep in mind that if you get a good deal on your injectors the re-sale is pretty good on them.

 

[JohnnyT]

Ok, well I am looking at keeping stock internals, so maybe get 800 injectors or so? Or can stock internals handle that high of boost?

 

[oldman420]

Well your engine in particular is a 6-bolt which handles boost quite well. So if your maintenance is good and you have a fresh timing belt with less that 35 000km on it, i would say constant 16 psi on a good tune with 660's is what you want. Unless you getting dsmlink and have a wideband and egt I would be as bold to say get the 880s push 20psi when at the track and 15 daily driver at 80% duty.

 

[JohnnyT]

Well I have an AEM Uego wideband and an AEM Tru-Boost which I haven't installed yet, I changed my t-belt about 4000 miles ago. I will be using ds-map, not dsmlink. So what do you think? It will be mostly a daily driver and maybe track once or twice a year.

 

[oldman420]

I would seriously consider going with 660s then my friend. No point in over fueling and having to crazy down tune. Your not going to want to run 25 psi anyway. Stick to 660's, try not to boost over 21 psi tune down to 14 psi when driving in city and your sitting pretty.

 

[JohnnyT]

HAHA, ok sounds good, ya I am not looking to make this a drag freak track car, just some fun. Thanks!

 

[laserspeeddemon]

I'm not the best at reading compressor maps, but I get the jist.

TD05 - 16g (Small)
Average price : $550

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Max Flow: 525cfm @ 19psi.
Max Boost: 27.6 psi
Max Effciency Range: 6-17 psi (@ 77%)

TD05 - 16g (Big)
(This may be the EVO III 16g)
Average price : $575 ($599 if EVO III 16g)

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Max Flow: 555 cfm @ 19psi.
Max Boost: 33.2 psi
Max Effciency Range: 3-18 psi (@ 77%)

TD06 - 18g (6SL2)
Price: $699

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Max Flow: 600ish cfm @ 19psi.
Max Boost: 28 psi (as show on map, GOTTA be higher then that)
Max Effciency Range: 3-18 psi (@ 77%)

If I got this wrong, please tell me where I got the numbers mixed. Because I read about 7 sites on how to read compressor maps and each site has something slightly different.

 

[oldman420]

Those pictures are not showing, but i'm pretty sure i'm relatively close.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

I found this other map, I'm 100% sure this is a EVO III 16g. The numbers are identical to the map of the Big 16g. So the Big 16g in the previous post is a EVO III 16g.