ECMlink 02 reading issue

[brent55]

hey guys, i have a 96 talon awd. it is a full bolt on car. FIC 1000cc injectors, FIC fuel rail, AEM IAT, AEM 3.5MAP, AEM X series wideband, front mount intercooler, boost controller, ebay 16g turbo. it is on speed density.. i got the wideband working and im not exactly sure how the previous owner tuned it or where to start myself. I got all the sensors working but in open loop the car runs okay, its semi rich at like 13.5 or so ish but then in closed loop it goes to the 12.9s and runs super rich. when given gas it actually leans out instead of richens up too. ive done some research, 02 is wired through the rear but i have it in the first front 02 housing and then the stock 02 in the 2nd housing but its not plugged into anything. i do have narrow band simulation on. and with it on my front 02 goes from .2 to .8v and back and forth and thats it. does nothing in between. i read in the FAQ that it is normal for that but they said it seems almost perfectly square... almost... mine really only reads .2 to .8... it is perfectly square and never hits anything in between. so im going to assume it is okay? i pulled a log and im hoping someone can actually tell me how the tune seems and where i need to start on actually fixing things to make it run much better. ive researched the AFRratioEST is what you want your target goal to be, all mine are 14.7 in the top half but for some reason my log still shows 11s. never is the real target. ive adjusted the SD table some in the first few cells that it tracks but that hasnt worked for me. it doesn't do what i think or thought it should do.

 

[AWD-Tony]

Narrowband is square waves so that’s normal and you won’t see any reading in between. I’d look at your log but my laptop is upstairs

 

[brent55]

thanks for the quick reply! and thats good. leads me to lots of other questions . my wb factor is all over the place, the fuel trims suck... im trying to figure out exactly where i should start... everything ive ever known was to get idle right but im reading a few things that say to start with wot and get the global set. but when i get on it, it leans way out so i dont want to do that. again no sure where to start.

and i actually just read the big book of random tuning tips and said not to worry about wb factor out of open loop. use combined fuel trims... which are at average of 16.3% on that log... but then it also says the formula for calculating sd changes is to use the wbfactor.... which one do i focus on ?

 

[AWD-Tony]

I personally tune idle first and some light cruise so it's drivable since the highway is about a mile or so from my house. Then tune WOT. I then go back and retune idle and cruise once the global is correct. Tuning WOT first just makes it so you don't have to tune cruise and idle again. You can do it either way, it's not a big deal.

Your ISC position is pegged at 100 at idle. You want that at 30 with the car FULLY warmed up and EVERYTHING off.
I don't like your target afr table (min & maxOctTable) in DA. Never seen it set that way.

You haven't set your profile page. Please go there and list all your mods.

BTW - I am not a professional tuner . Just enjoy tuning and helping others

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/w...r-receive-no-replies-from-the-wisemen.443297/

 

[Vegas Smith]

Hmm, there's a lot going on here. If this car has stock cams then the idle is way too high and the speed density table is too rich. The car should idle between 750-900 is my guess. If you insist on 1100 then up your coasting fuel cut to 200-250 and set the BISS screw correctly. Narrowband simulation looks fine but there is something off about your fuel trims. The car is wanting a bunch of fuel but the wideband says it's already running rich. I would double check that the wideband is setup correctly.

 

[brent55]

the isc is removed so the car doesn't have a idle control valve or anything like that. all this was set up by the previous owner. it is on stock cams. im not sure why the idle is up so high but it doesnt bother me... i believe the idle is set for 900? and thats my exact issue... the wideband is set up correctly. ive gone through the wiring multiple times to triple check my self... it reads alright but its like the computer doesnt want to read that wideband. its like its trying to read a non existent 02. when in open loop it runs much better at idle and cruise. but when i take it out of open loop it just calls for more and more fuel. my AFRratioEST is always super rich, my wb factor is way off.... and my idle control valve is non existent so not really somewhere i can start... or at least i was told it was deleted. when i start the car i have to give it 5% throttle or so and hold it for about 30-45 seconds till it warms up slightly then i can let off and it idles.

 

[Vegas Smith]

If your engine is stock, then I would go back to the stock ve map and afr table. I would also look into setting up the aem wideband as a linear input. There seem to be a lot of problems with aem widebands and you have to play around with them to get it working properly. https://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/aemwb

 

[AWD-Tony]

Are you sure the ISC was deleted? They could have deleted the FIAV. They're two different systems. Post a pic of the under the throttle body.

 

[brent55]

I will post a pic up tonight when I get home. I work 2nd shift. And I've came across lots of post about the aem wideband and lot of problems with the wideband not connecting and displaying the value from the gauge to the ecu... Which mine is... If I unhook my wideband from my ecu it doesn't change what the actual reading is on the gauge... My gauge and my ecu show the same thing... The x series is the better aem one to use... The uego sucks with ecmlink for sure. I really don't think my wideband connection is the issue... I've looked into this quite a bit....

 

[Vegas Smith]

I will post a pic up tonight when I get home. I work 2nd shift. And I've came across lots of post about the aem wideband and lot of problems with the wideband not connecting and displaying the value from the gauge to the ecu... Which mine is... If I unhook my wideband from my ecu it doesn't change what the actual reading is on the gauge... My gauge and my ecu show the same thing... The x series is the better aem one to use... The uego sucks with ecmlink for sure. I really don't think my wideband connection is the issue... I've looked into this quite a bit....

That's interesting considering you have a different switchpoint than ecmlink'sinputted for your wideband...

https://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/v3narrowbandsim

 

[brent55]

I believe I set it to 2.51, i don't have my laptop in front of me so I maybe wrong. I'll check it when I get home but I was messing with it a little to see what it does or would do. I didn't see a change in anything but out of the 3 aem wideband selections which one would you recommend using? Im not sure what AEMWBR1 is vs AEMWB... they don't have the x series listed in there....

 

[Vegas Smith]

You would set it up as a linear wideband.

(57) ECMLink LinearWB SD Tuning Video.wmv - YouTube

That's the only thing I can think of. You can try to add deadtime or global to get fuel trims closer to zero.

 

[brent55]

Can you tell me why you think I need to set it up as a linear when it's reading fine...? Do you think my actual afr is 11s when my wideband says it's 13? If my wideband gauge shows 13, and my wideband captured value is at 13, that is telling me it's reading correctly and corresponding with the ecu... I'm really confused as to why you think I have a wideband problem when it's reading and displaying correct numbers? If I set it up as a linear is it going to change what my gauge is displaying? Or how it reads as a captured value? If I set it up as a linear.. will my gauge read different then it did before...? Serious questions. I want to figure this out I'm just confused... and i would add to global or dead times but the car runs super rich as is...

 

[AWD-Tony]

I remember seeing the isc number change at one point in the log so I think it does have isc

 

[Vegas Smith]

I remember seeing the isc number change at one point in the log so I think it does have isc

The isc position is only what the ecu thinks is the correct value not what the isc is actually reporting. The ecu is essentially blind in that operation.

 

[AWD-Tony]

The isc position is only what the ecu thinks is the correct value not what the isc is actually reporting. The ecu is essentially blind in that operation.

Really? I didn’t know that

 

[brent55]

these are really crappy photos but it was hard to get behind my throttle body if these do the job let me know if not i will have to figure something else to get the photo

 

[AWD-Tony]

The isc motor is unplugged. It has the brown cap over it. Plug goes to where the red arrow

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Good idea to test it

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[brent55]

alright, so i know that its still on the car and ill look into seeing if it does work or not, but can anyone tell me how that may help my afr issue? it acts the same all around, not just at idle... cruising it runs richer in closed loop then it does in open loop. so why does my car on speed density think it needs to be richer after it gets an afr reading thats already rich?

 

[randman2011]

Your car has a lot of problems. The best path toward fixing them is to fix the obvious and easy ones first and see what else resolves itself as a result so you don't end up chasing your own tail around problems that were merely side-effects of something else.

Usually on a car with stock cams the place where you start is tuning idle. Set BISS so that your ISC stays at 25-30, then set fuel for a solid idle, then tune cruise, then tune WOT, then repeat. Without a functioning ISC that's just one more variable in this mess that you can't keep constant. It's not that connecting the ISC will fix the AFR issue, but that connecting the ISC will help you better identify and fix the problems that are causing the AFR issue.

 

[AWD-Tony]

I only mentioned it from looking at your log and don’t think it has anything to do with your afr issues.

If the car is mostly stock, revert all the settings to stock. That’s what I’d do

EDIT: I see you updated your profile.

Are your injectors low impedance?
What's your base fuel pressure?

I'd start with changing your min & max oct table to stock. Then blending your open loop area to what ever you want. Leave the min table alone.

 

[brent55]

i believe they are high impendence... i think. and its at stock pressure. 43 psi

 

[AWD-Tony]

Have you reset your target AFR's? What's going on with the ISC?

 

[brent55]

I did, and I got my car to idle at 14.7 in closed loop but now my airflowperrev is at .2 which is way to low. My boost gauge at idle shows -10 vacumm so I think I have a vaumm leak somewhere causing some problems I'll dig into this weekend. It's been to cold in Kansas to go out and work on the car, tonight/tomorrow morning I'll turn the heater on and start working away and see what I can come up with.

 

[AWD-Tony]

I did, and I got my car to idle at 14.7 in closed loop but now my airflowperrev is at .2 which is way to low. My boost gauge at idle shows -10 vacumm so I think I have a vaumm leak somewhere causing some problems I'll dig into this weekend. It's been to cold in Kansas to go out and work on the car, tonight/tomorrow morning I'll turn the heater on and start working away and see what I can come up with.

Glad you’re getting somewhere. You can see why wisemen don’t want to deal with tuning issues until everything is crossed off that list.