whos running megasquirts need input

[talon187]

ok a kid in town is running megasquirts on his neon not an srt4 neon. i ended up looking at it with a friend of mine and my friend runs aem on two of his cars and said megasquirts was alot like aem. i was wondering if you guys who are running it had an issues or if you like it dont. why you like. why you dont. i was also wondering where i could buy it and do they make a harness for our cars as well if so is the harness labled? how many wires do i need to hook up? thanks for the input

 

[turboking15]

do a search. there is a huge megasquirt thread in this section.

 

[Ajax]

I run a Megasquirt on my 420a only bc we do not have DSMlink for the NT's/ Idles 1660cc injectors fine. It is alot of work in the sense of wiring and getting the right parameters figured out, but there is a very very good support system via. msextra.com. You can buy a preassembled harness that is labelled. I got mine from Rsautosport, DIYautotune also makes them. I sill have some issue with mine but only with idling only bc I do not have my idle valve hooked up.

 

[talon187]

well the reason i posted was because i did do a search all i could find was for people running the 420a i wanted some input form people running it on the 4g63... how many wires are there for the 420a guys? the kid that had it on his neon said there went many one for clutch another for the coolant temp one for each injector and a few more so whats the website to grab all the stuff from ? are the meagesquirts unverisal ? in meaning if i found a used one from someone with a 420a could i use that box or new ecu on my 4g63 and just get a diffrent harness?

 

[turboglenn]

If you're worried about the amount of wires a megasquirt is going to be too much for you. MOst of the kits require you to change the circuit board for your individual setup. Expect at least 25-30 wires from the board and then a bunch more to power each of the sensors needed for it to run properly.

They usually aren't labeles and it's up to you to figure out how to wire up you CAS and power transistor and coils. This is going to be the same and fairly complicated on any stand alone. The megasquirt being something you build (but can now buy pre-built) makes this unit even a little further beyond a normal stand alone as far as wiring skills are concerned. The simplest thing about megaquirt is it has a pre-configured input for 420a triggers (which are fairly complex compared to others on 4 cylinder motors) btu depending on who built it the wire colors could be whatever the guy had or they could be coded correctly according to teh diagrams/indtructions...you just won'tknow untill you have YOUR board... and then remembering things like "blue wire is NOT ign output, the green is...remember that" can start to add up and easilybe forgotten making trouble shooting even harder in the future if somether were to go wrong.

They are all "universal" to a point, but this is because you must wire and configure the setup for each motor individually. The more complex a unit is the more features you're going to have and it's going to be harder to learn the wiring, setup and tuning. The MS aren't "hard" but they are far from "simple" as people would like them to be. DSMlink is simple, but not made for your car

I have years and years of ECU programming/tuning experience and just from not being real familiar with megasquirt, i have to refer to manuals, printouts and people on the phone that have the info i'm looking for.

 

[SpeedAddict62]

The thread that Turboking15 was talking about can be found here: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tuning-engine-management/241988-megasquirt-ecu-hmmm.html

 

[talon187]

i dont have a 420a talon i have a awd 4g63 talon........

 

[turboglenn]

i dont have a 420a talon i have a awd 4g63 talon........

Sorry i got confused. Then i would run DSMlink unless there's some funstions you want that it doesn't offer, but i still vote DSMlink over megasquirt for ease of use and isntallation.

There's still a ton of wires on a 4g63 as you can see under the hood. Most of them still need to be hoioked up with the megaquirt or any stand alone.

AEM, Haltech, Autronic and Link (not dsmlink) all make good stand alone ECU's for our cars. If you're stuck on stand alone go teh extra dollar and get something that is manufactured by a large company, you will have less headaches in the end. My respect goes out to anyone who's running or setup their own megasquirt, as it's definately not a "plu in" affair, and the fact that you may have to change your circuit board to adapt IAC and other features has lead me away from MS for the most part. I would just prefer something that's a "sealed unit" with factory backing when it comes to something that's going to make the difference between driving a 14 hour road trip or stopping on hour # 7 to check wires and possibly have to pull the board and solder or fix something.

Although it's not very likely, it's still one of the key reasons I prefer mass produced name brand ECU's over something built by people that fall under no form of quality control outside of the few people who designed and started the megasquirt ECU. Even though i'm confiddent in my sodlering and tuning skills, there's too much of a chance of somethign going wrong for them to be considered "reliable" enough for me to drive to TX or FL and back on wihtout worrying the whole way about the ECU.

Now don't take what i've said the wrong way. I would love to get a megaquirt to play with and hook to my "testbed" dummy motor that's powered by electric and has a running CAS and firing coils so that i could learn the system and it's pro and cons. But i would not simply throw one on my daily driver and expect it to be reliale from the get-go like i would with a "name brand" ECU. The ones i've tuned have been fairly straight forward, but it seems like everyone of them has had something unhooked or disconnected because the board wasn't setup right or they were waiting for an add on to be built or shipped to make everything function to it's peak level of performance, and that dissapoints me. If/whent the megasquirt beccomes one standard unit with configurable outputs and inputs enough to where you don't have to physically change anything to make them properly function i will be a lot more willing to put one on a car of mine(or customers's car) for testing and tuning.

Just like the AEM, i wouldn't own their plug n play unit at all, but i'd take a "stand alone" version anyday. As a matter of fact the former developer of the AEM (Jason Siebles) has now left AEM and came out with his own ECU that is just what i described ONE UNIT that can run anything you program it to (much like most other stand alones have been for years) and now i'm willing to go take the "class" , learn the ECU and install and tune them more often. Haltech has recently dissapointed me with a lack of support for their older models only saying "buy the new one" so i'm looking for my new favorite and recommended ECU and i believe that the new pro EFI is it!!!

 

[talon187]

we i had a thought as far as wiring goes. what if i took a ecu that blown and took the plug off for the stock wire harness. then do you think i could plug the stock harness into it and just wire the back said to the ms and have it run off the stock wire harness?

 

[turboglenn]

we i had a thought as far as wiring goes. what if i took a ecu that blown and took the plug off for the stock wire harness. then do you think i could plug the stock harness into it and just wire the back said to the ms and have it run off the stock wire harness?

I have done a lot of installs this way and it's got it's pros and cons. It won't make it any easier, in fact it's harder to install one through the factory harness compared to replacing the whole harness. I did my car this way because i originally built it as a sleeper, but if I had a spare E6k harness i would throw it in immediately.

you have to do things like bypassing the resistor pack, use wires that were meant for one thing and use them just for their path out to something else you need to hook to and more. I've probably got 500 feet of extra wire in my car because of running the ECU this way (and everything else since, except for the DIS-2 box) The good part was that i was able to keep all my gages and factory wiring for everything else intact right down to the alarm system that was on the car when i got it (with starter disable).. One time this became a major pain was on my fuel pump rewire. Since i had th battery out i decided to cut out all the wires from the charcoal canister and other emissions solenoids that i didn't use anymore. All of these were loose/unplugged wires that i "didn't need" Well there was a "test plug" for the ignition that i cut off and it stopped one coil pack from working. After an hour or so of digging through all the greasy wires i had cut off and cleaning up the other half in the car so i could match things up i FINALLY found this "test plug" that had 2 wires going into one (hence they needed to be hooked together, why mitsu chose to join them at the terminated harness plug IDK??? ) I hooked them together and was back in action. but that's a perfectly good example of something in a stock harness that you would not have had to worry about with the aftermarket harness as after installing it you will know every wire and connector and be better able to trouble shoot your system. Rather than trying to decide if the issue is in "your half" or the "OEM half" of the wiring when starting to diagnose a problem with the engine running.

What makes that type of install a pain is what I've described above as well as what voltage goes to what sensors and where certain things may cross each other in the stock harness and would not be required with an aftermarket harness ( i.e. the "test plug")etc..etc..

I recommend running the new harness along the old one, cut and remove the injector and ignition harness sub looms (the first foot or two of wires and the plugs basically) and use them for your connectors. Then, as you get the motor up and running and go to make all "final connections" and loom it up for use, you can then strip back ONLY the wires you unhooked to replace with the new harness wires. This will insure that most if not all of your gages work along with cruise control and other creature comforts.

 

[talon187]

i see i didnt think of that..gives more to think about thanks!

 

[turboglenn]

Hey, just maybe an answer to your issue. this guy PM'ed me and says this link is how to wire a megasquirt through your harness. I take no responsibility for the information contained within, but the least i can do is share teh link and give thanks to the person who PM'ed it to me

By looking at it though i don't think i could wire an ECU based off it, but this guy migh have teh info on papaer as to what goes to what... i put his screen name in the quote

here's your info to show thanks

Hey, just noticed that another member was asking about using a stock ECU plug and using the stock wiring harness. I recently made a crossover harness doing exactly that for my MS, taking pictures and notes along the way but I can't post in that thread yet haha.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/michaelboulanger/cars/4g64 project/IMG_0890.jpg?t=1207104693

Runs everything through the stock harness, the only modification required is a relay or switched ground for the fuel pump relay. I was wondering if you wouldn't mind posting that up to let people know it is possible without a ton of work.

Mike

 

[turboglenn]

Here's the pin out info from teh same user ninesixtwo

great work here, this guy is really being cool to offer this info up after surely working hard to come up with it on his own. Give him some props!

MS pin# DSM pin# wire color

Air Temp 20 8 Blu/Wht

Coolant Temp 21 20 Yel/Blu

TPS 22 19 Yel

O2 Sensor 23 4 Red/Wht

Primary Tach/CK P 24 21 Wht

Transistor 1+4 36 54 Red/Blk

TPS 5volt Ref 26 23 Yel/Red

Transistor 2+3 31 55 Red/Yel

12volt Main Power 28 110 Red

Secondary Tach/CMP 25 22 Wht/Red

Injector 1 32 51 Grn

Injector 4 33 61 Grn/Yel

Injector 2 34 52 Grn/Wht

Injector 3 35 60 Grn/Blk

Fuel Pump 37 56 Blk/Wht

Boost Solenoid 27 105 Brn/Blk


I can't get the post to look right with teh colums of DSM pins / megasquirt pins etcc... btu i found if you copy and paste it to word it shows up right!

 

[turboglenn]

I would like to add some reputaion to user ninesixtwo but can't figure out how to do anything but buyer feedback...any help here?

 

[Ajax]

If you use the stock IAT and Coolant temp sensor probes you will have to calibrate you MS to read them right you can use a program like Easytherm that converts and write to correct files for the MS to read.

 

[wishihadatalon]

Hey, just maybe an answer to your issue. this guy PM'ed me and says this link is how to wire a megasquirt through your harness. I take no responsibility for the information contained within, but the least i can do is share teh link and give thanks to the person who PM'ed it to me

By looking at it though i don't think i could wire an ECU based off it, but this guy migh have teh info on papaer as to what goes to what... i put his screen name in the quote

here's your info to show thanks

Yeah he isn't the first to do it. I think it is cool that more and more people are doing it though The only extra wires you would need would be for the iat sensor. Also if built right, by the right person, you shouldn't really have to modify the system ever again. One of its biggest downfalls is the lack of pins available on the db9 connector. It isn't too difficult to add more though.

If done correctly, I don't see why it wouldn't be reliable. I daily drove mine for a year before I took my car apart. My buddy his Colt did the same thing with my megasquirt. The guy who built my megasquirt daily drives his, with multiple 3+hr trips.

You are right though, big name Ecu's come with customer service in the form of call and get answer. Megasquirt offers a very grass roots open source approach, but if you ask the right people, there shouldn't be any question or problem that can not be answered or fixed.

 

[Ajax]

TurboGlenn go to the main forum page under site problems there is Reputations recommadations tab.

 

[TealTalon]

I'm am very satisfied with my Megasquirt on my 1G AWD. I don't have a ton of time on it yet, but it seems to do anything I would want it to do. The information I learned putting it all together and making it run were invaluable.

Between this:

How to MegaSquirt your 4g63 powered DSM - Eclipse, Talon, Laser

and this:

http://www.megasquirtpr.com/manuals/How to MegaSquirt your 4G63 powered DSM.pdf

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You will have it running.

 

[JrCRXHF]

I was looking at the Mega squirt but decided to go with the AEM EMS because i have more friends with this ecu on evo's and it is a little closer to plug and tune then the megasquirt is.

But i do like the megasquirt and i think for the money it is a good by it just does not have the tuner support for the 4g63 that the AEM does.

 

[XtremeRS2gnt]

If anyone has any specific MS questions for the 4g63, just send them my way. I'm the one who TJ mentions in his post. I built and installed his, and i daily drive my Laser AWD on my Megasquirt 2..I also have the MS on my Eclipse RS-T. I've never been stranded by the MS, and have countless 3+ hour drives, each way, on my setup. If its assembled right, and installed properly, it will be as reliable as any other piece of electronic equipment.

The MS is a lot to take in for someone who knows nothing about it. It's a great learning curve, but there are enough MS 4g63 users now, that this becomes less an issue. The MS2 runs my laser flawlessly. It runs better than stock in fact. It controls the stock Idle stepper motor fine, has countless track runs, and is easy to tune, once you know how to do it. It's the best, most cost effective standalone out there. The MS2(or MS1), is MORE than sufficient for 99% of users out there, who dont need, or would even ever use all features of an AEM unit. Sure the AEM is more feature packed, but most wont even use most of those features. I suggest the MS2, as it has the same injector PW resolution as an AEM, and can run very large injectors. Boost control, studder box, fan control, staged injection, dual tables, are just several of the useful features the MS offers.

The MS really is a wonderful alternative to a much more expensive standalone solution. Feel free to use this thread or send me a PM if there are more questions on the MS. I do offer 4g63 MS assembling services, and installation as well.

As for bare minimum MS wiring to the 4g63, leaving the stock ECU intact, you will need these:

-Switched 12 volts
-Ground
-TPS sensor input
-Coolant temp sensor input
-Air temp sensor input
-o2 sensor input(wideband preferred)
-4 fuel injector ground wires
-Cam and Crank signal wires
-2 Power Transistor trigger wires for ignition
-Fuel pump turn on output
-Run a vac line for the internal MAP sensor

Thats basically it, for minimum functionality, to run fuel and spark control.

 

[turboglenn]

XtremeRS I agree with you that the MS is great and can be very reliable when built by some one who has done them before. BUt most of the units i've seen were assembled by the owner and there was always something with it needing the board changed or needing a part to make "X" work.

I have nothing agains't the MS, i just think for a person who is concerned with "how many wires?" there are is going to have more headaches than he originally thought he was going encounter.

Like i said before I'd love to have one on my test bed to get the bugs worked out to a point where i could have a few setup to throw on a customers car if they so desired, and do it with confidence. I guess i'm supposed to go to trainign on the new ProEFI that Jason Siebles came out with here in the next month or so. Hopefully this new ECU of his will be what i'm looking for in a stand alone to "stand behind"

 

[shuedaman]

I'm finishing a build on my AWD talon and hope to finish wiring the MS this weekend. There's plenty of wiring, and I've installed all the toys, including boost control and eventually water/alcohol injection. We'll see how it turns out as I'm hoping to fire it up the first time on saturday. Still debating on where to mount the MS in the car, anyone have any ideas/experience?

To the OP, I've been experimenting with the MS on the bench for months and I am confortable with it, but there's a definite learning curve. If you don't like wiring/soldering then you probably want to rule out a MS. However, it's hard to beat the price, especially if you build it yourself.

 

[XtremeRS2gnt]

Yes, i'll be the first to say the Megasquirt isn't for everyone, that's for sure. If you are clueless to wiring, troubleshooting, how electrical and computer systems/fuel injection work, then the MS may not be for you. It is a DIY standalone, and requires such an attitude towards it. Build quality is very important, and vendors sell fully assembled units, if your soldering skills are lacking. If you take your time with wiring, make good, reliable connections, you are set. The learning curve is THE largest obstacle to overcome, and the user MUST take the time to educate themselves about the MS, how it works, and how to tune it. This process may be too much for some, so something more plug and play and simple, may be a more attractive solution. But as others have said, the price for such a nice standalone that gets the job done and more, is what puts it ahead of any other type of add on, or ECU hack, ect, and even the AEM when it comes down to price vs functionality.

Yes, certain features of the MS need modifications and added circuitry for them to work, but you can either order an assembled unit like this, or mod it yourself. Most features only need very simple basic circuits, all of which can mostly be done on board. This is why if you build your own, you can add them at build time, or its really no big deal to add them later as needed. If you built your own MS, then adding a few parts is a no brainer.

If you have never built, installed, and tuned a MS, you just dont know how nice a system it is and can be. If everything from build to install was done properly(can be challenging for some), there is NO reason to question reliability, tunability or functionality, compared to any other tuning methods out there.

For mounting locations, i just put mine on the passenger side underdash, by the center console. It's up out of the way, yet i still have easy access to it.

 

[turboglenn]

I've tuned a few, but they were setup from the start to where the car would run adn drive okay and only needed some timing and AFR adjustments to get them dead on. Sometimes the AFR's would drift bady (especially on the alpha romeo) which is the only thing running wise that worried me. But that was an old MS system as well.

We have a Neon with a SOHC motor that will be running a megasquirt here in the near future unless the woman decides against it (it's her car) This will be a track car that sees the occasional saturday afternoon stroll on the streets. Which is why we are not too worried about havingto work out some bugs in the beggning.

We will probably order a pre-assembled kit, not because i can't solder, read diagrams and setup the program. But because it's just that much less to deal with. I love to solder but when you're doing it for 6 hours straight it can get old and i'm too hyper to not finish the kit in one night

In no way am i dogging on the MS, I just don't feel it's right for the OP's desires of the install or at least from what i took from his posts. You should see me raise hell on the haltech forums because of the few little things i am pissed at them with right now (they just moved the forum so some of my best/older stuff is gone forever!)