Which is better? 96 or 97 GSX???

[futrgsxonr]

I'm looking at buying a 95/96 eclipse gsx, or a 97/98 eclipse gsx. I heard that there were some changes between the two time periods and I'm wondering which would be better excluding the obvious milage factor. I'm planning on having about 300 hp and dont want to have to do an engine swap if possible. It would mostly be a straight line, dead stop, dragger. Thanx for your help!

 

[iwishiwascool]

Cost: 1G USDM motors are more plentiful and less costly than 2g Motors
Effort: The Swap involves switching a few wires and shaving a motor mount.
Time: Plus about 22 minutes over a 2g install.

I guess my question would be: Why take the risk if your doing a build up or rebuild. Obviously crank walk is happening, people who I meet in the real world (Outside of your interweb world) have faced and dealt with the "hype". Some more than once.

Granted it is definitely NOT a 100% chance, but the numbers are likely in the 40% range.

It is irresponsible to disregard a major mechanical design flaw as Hype just because you have not experienced it. Venture out into the real world and gain some experience on the subject and stop perpetrating your 5th hand hearsay interweb "knowledge".

 

[Grimis]

Originally posted by jrivard00
First of all don't believe the crankwalk hipe on 7 bolt motors. Swapping out a motor now isn't worth the time, effort, and money. I wouldn't even swap for a 1G head until you needed a valve job. Differences between 95-96 and 97-99 that I've seen are the camshaft position sensor are wired differently and located in different locations on the head. If you did buy a 95-96 model and wanted adjustable CAMS then you'd need a 1G head or 2G 97-99 head because of the sensor location. Also, the ABS system in a 97-99 have four wheel independent braking where are the 95-96 has two wheel independent in the front and the back are controlled as one unit. And the ECU was updated in the later models.

^^^ right on with the money issue, i thought about doing a 6bolt, but i have an AT, and i have only heard of i think 2 people in my area with crank walk (que the music). stick with the 96/96, make it look like a 97/99

 

[JessesTalon]

double post, sorry tuners is going slow

 

[JessesTalon]

Well I would have to agree with the last few comments, Crank walk is a Serious issue. Although I myself have never met anyone with it, or had it. And as far as I have been told its a 1 in 40 chance (assuming your car is stock, and treated well) The crankshaft movement in a modded vehicle is obviously going to be worse as you are pushing the crank harder and faster.
It really depends on the "go fast mods" and if even if you don't have "go fast mods" there is still a chance of getting it, but it is not as great of a chance.
Just what from i've heard, don't quote me, mitsu didn't give me that #
Anyways Happy modding and have fun with the new car

 

[Hal]

Telling some one to avoid a model year because of crank walk is like saying don't have sex because you might get her pregnant.

In fact, you stand a greater chance of breaking a center diff than you do of getting crank walk.

Not all 7 bolts walk, in fact a VERY small percentage of them do.

Ten minutes of effort with a jack, screw driver and dial indicator will allow you to check for excess end play.

Do it each time you change your oil.

If it goes out of spec, replace the thrust bearing BEFORE the bearing has a chance to get trashed. Once it does, the crank is toast, followed shortly there after by the block.

Personally, I'd get a 97/98 simply because I don't like the looks of the 95/96 and 99's have a less mod friendly ECU.

Hal

 

[iwishiwascool]

As I said

Crank walk is not inevitable but it is irresponsible to tell a NEWBIE that it is overrated and wont happen. It is better if he is aware of the potential mortality of his engine.

Should he do a preemptive swap: no
Should he not consider a 2g: no
Should he be aware of the possibility, check for the problem, and be prepared with options if it does walk: Yes

I was a newbie once too. I bought a 2g believing crank walk to be overrated fluffery. 2 months, 0 mods, and one timing belt later I faced the dreaded tick with little cash to spare and no alternative mode of transportation.

I do not support the crankwalk is inevitable banter but to say that it is not going to happen is violating the trust he has put in you to give him concrete information... rather than what you "think".

 

[hoffman]

Originally posted by iwishiwascool
Youve got to be kidding me. You are suggesting that tuning has anything to do with crank walk. Maybe its time that someone asks you to keep your posts on that which you have direct knowledge.

Ken OConnell
ColumbusDSM

No, no, no. There is no way. Do you not see the smiley? Do you? This one, . Thats usually and indicator of sarcasim or a joke. Since that wasn't blatenly clear enough, I'll add the "THIS IS A JOKE" message from now on for the people not so quick on the uptake.

If you think tuning is only tuning knobs, moving sliders and dynos, good luck buddy. I'm sorry if the Columbus DSM crowd got butt hurt over some little comment, but if you think I'm going to retact my statement, hold your breath. An engine has pretty much made up his mind whether its a walker or not when it leaves the assembly line. Adding performance parts and upgrades, which I'm sorry is part of TUNING, will help to speed this process along. Just like adjusting the sliders on DSMLink, if you plan your parts in the wrong order is just as dettramental. Enough said on that.

Are you done taking a Shiv on this thread and would like to answer the topic starters question about the difference between the 2g model years or shall we continue?

 

[v413nc3]

Uh oh, news flash 6 bolts walk too!!! OH GOD NO SAY IT ISN'T SO!!! "Crankwalk" is a neat builtin feature of a thrust bearing (your center bearing on the crank where it spins in the mains) wearing oddly. When this happens it slides around. Gee does that mean that bearings wear down and ANY engine can crank walk? I guess it does.

Having said that, and I'm waiting for a rebuttle from someone who doesn't have their head planted so firmly in their behind they can see their colon. Lets move onto REAL info.

Get the car you can get for cheaper vs better condition. If it walks, replace the engine with a BUILT ENGINE, not a rebuilt one. Too many idiots rebuild these engines with stock parts. If you're going to do it, DO IT RIGHT. If it doesn't walk, then play with it till you need to build it. When you do, get a 6 bolt, or a JDM 7 bolt from an Evo I, II or III. I use the JDM 7 bolt from an evo I because the lower webbing is stronger. Personal choice.

To answer your question though, the looks are better in 97-99, 99 was a junk year IMHO, 96 was a bastard child of the family, ie didn't have good looks, and no eeprom ECU, you kinda get shafted. Personally I would get the 97 or 98 or whatever it happens to be for the looks and go from there.

 

[Mike 99GSX]

Originally posted by v413nc3

To answer your question though, the looks are better in 97-99, 99 was a junk year IMHO, 96 was a bastard child of the family, ie didn't have good looks, and no eeprom ECU, you kinda get shafted. Personally I would get the 97 or 98 or whatever it happens to be for the looks and go from there.

What made 99 a "junk" year? How do they differ from a 98

 

[v413nc3]

I don't mean to dis your car by any means... I just don't like all the extra crap they added to the 99, emissions stuff added over 98's and some changes to the ECU, generally I don't like it when they change a good thing, but hey, if you rip it all out she because beautiful again

 

[Mike 99GSX]

Originally posted by v413nc3
I don't mean to dis your car by any means... I just don't like all the extra crap they added to the 99, emissions stuff added over 98's and some changes to the ECU, generally I don't like it when they change a good thing, but hey, if you rip it all out she because beautiful again

Well my 99 ECU seems to not mind 400whp at all I think the 99 ECU timing thing is a load of crap personally. Maybe I'm just lucky but I've never experienced any such problems. Extra emissions? Does anyone here on this board really care about removing 1 or 2 extra solenoids? Again, another example of bad information being spread IMO

Mike
www.columbusdsm

 

[martyboss]

the 95 up all get crankwalk if you run more power .Diferent 95 and 97 is body and ECU wiring Do conv. for 500$ is not posible or it will look like crap 300hp from 14b is still said .You can buy already don with 6bolt but be carful is mayby dead already .If you want to do your self is not easy -if you don't have tools and don't know how forget it.95 awd people sels but you will need to do swap 6bolt soon thats 1500$ no labor for old peace of shit 6bolt evriting new 3500$ easy .Sorry about my english

 

[Hal]

Originally posted by martyboss
the 95 up all get crankwalk if you run more power

Yet another expert is heard from.

Hal

 

[v413nc3]

Originally posted by Mike 99GSX
Well my 99 ECU seems to not mind 400whp at all I think the 99 ECU timing thing is a load of crap personally. Maybe I'm just lucky but I've never experienced any such problems. Extra emissions? Does anyone here on this board really care about removing 1 or 2 extra solenoids? Again, another example of bad information being spread IMO

Mike
www.columbusdsm

A lot of people mind removing the extra emissions stuff And personally I know the ecu changes to be true, not bad info, how are you running 400whp with the stock ECU? Piggy backs? Eek, that scares me a little... pushing the envelope on the stock engine too, I wish you all the luck in the world with those little rods.

 

[martyboss]

I already did couple of them boy

 

[Hal]

Originally posted by martyboss
I already did couple of them boy

and based on a "couple" you extrapolate it to all, and then throw in the totally baseless condition of "more power".

That adds a great deal of credibility to your argument.

Some research into crank walk, if you were to bother to make the effort, would yield some interesting statistical samples based on model year.

By far and away, it's not "all".

...but then again, what do I know

Hal

 

[Mike 99GSX]

Originally posted by v413nc3
A lot of people mind removing the extra emissions stuff And personally I know the ecu changes to be true, not bad info, how are you running 400whp with the stock ECU? Piggy backs? Eek, that scares me a little... pushing the envelope on the stock engine too, I wish you all the luck in the world with those little rods.

I'm running 400whp with the setup listed in my profile at 22PSI and a VPC. I understand the limitations/reliability associated with the small 2g rods and my setup has changed for this next year. Your point is valid about the rods at this HP but it has nothing to do with the ECU being a 99.

 

[Hal]

There have been several recalls for the 99 ECU.

While none of them are major, the fact is the 99 ECU is less mod friendly (some searches into the 99 ECU and EFI Systems PMS or APEXi ITC will yield some examples).

Certainly not major, but they can cause a certain level of frustration when trying to figure why things are not working quite the way you expect them too.

I wouldn't pass on a 99 just because of the ECU, but it's certainly another data point to keep in mind.

Hal

 

[98RedGs]

If this thread is going to stay open. I suggest to seriously change the conversation and get BACK onto the topic that the user asked about.

This is not a "crankwalk conversation" thread.
This is a crankwalk thread
This is not a crankwalk thread.
Visual Difference Between DSM Models Thread


End the crankwalk conversation now.
If you want to discuss that take it to another thread or make one to carry your discussion any further. Conversation done.


Thank you.
"Nazi Mod"

 

[futrgsxonr]

Thanx a lot guys for all of your help. Im considering the 97-98 years because I want this car for a while and dont want a lot of miles on it. Plus it has been the car that has been most recommended by everybody. Hopefully I will be able to find one around here somewhere.

So now that I've decided on which car I want, what would you guys suggest the best path of modding to be? I'm used to a civic and intake and exaust are always first. This is my first time dealing directly with a turbo, I know how everything works you dont have to explain that, but I know that the progression of modding is going to be different. If you could give it to me in "stages" that would be most helpful. I would prefer to get high quality stuff even though i know it costs a lot more, but if youre gonna do it, you got to do it right. Again thanx for your help with my quest for a blown 300 hp.

 

[futrgsxonr]

I forgot to mention some things:

I dont want to do an engine swap unless the car i buy has a lot of miles on it (hopefully it wont). If it does, what would be the best engine code (plus year and model) to buy and why?

I just want some basic suspension upgrades, to lower the car a little and to be able to support 17" rims. ]

Basically, I'm most concerned with engine upgrades, but I realize other things are necessary.

Thanx again guys

 

[JessesTalon]

Hey I know RRE and Dsmparts.com and a bunch of online parts sites for DSM's have great upgrade paths for 1g, 2g, vr4's.

For a 2g, In my opinion

Stage 1

Boost gauge (stock is inaccurate)
Oil Pressure Gauge
Air Fuel Gauge
EGT Gauge
Turbo Timer(not needed if you dont mind waiting)
Boost controller
K&N filter + Air Intake
Free Mod's (I know alot for 1g, im not sure which ones are for 2g also)
1g BOV (crushed)
Minor Tune-up + Oil Change w/synthentic Oil
Datalogger Cable + software + palm

Safe for probably about 12 psi (+-235hp) (14's)


Stage 2

Plug wires, colder spark plugs
Upper IC piping
Lower IC piping
2.5 or 3" Exhaust (turbo back w/no cat.. if you want to be legal, turboback with highflow cat)
bigger fuel pump
Bigger Injectors (end of Stage 2 or Start of Stage 3)

Safe for probably about 15psi (+-275hp) (13's)

Stage 3

Front Mount Intercooler
Bigger Turbo (Big 16G or evo3)
Ported exhaust manifold
evo3 ported o2 housing
SAFC I SAFC II (Fuel Managment)
Clutch (ACT 2600 is a very good one (luv mine))
External Wastegate

Safe for probably 20psi (+-325hp)(12's)

Stage 4

1g head swap
Fuel Management]
intake manifold
(porting on turbo and other stuff as well)
Loads of Tuning
Driving Practice
Roll Cage + Safety Equipment

Safe for probably 25psi (+350hp)(11's or lower)



Just what I think, pretty much what ive seen around different websites...

 

[98RedGs]

Originally posted by futrgsxonr
Thanx a lot guys for all of your help. Im considering the 97-98 years because I want this car for a while and dont want a lot of miles on it. Plus it has been the car that has been most recommended by everybody. Hopefully I will be able to find one around here somewhere.

So now that I've decided on which car I want, what would you guys suggest the best path of modding to be? I'm used to a civic and intake and exaust are always first. This is my first time dealing directly with a turbo, I know how everything works you dont have to explain that, but I know that the progression of modding is going to be different. If you could give it to me in "stages" that would be most helpful. I would prefer to get high quality stuff even though i know it costs a lot more, but if youre gonna do it, you got to do it right. Again thanx for your help with my quest for a blown 300 hp.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/
http://www.dsmparts.com/2g_performance_guide.htm
You ask for a guide in stages?
Read our "TUNING GUIDE" since it comes in stages.

I would personally do a boost gauge before touching any other modifications. Work from there bro.

Goodluck.

 

[jrivard00]

I would say that the injector upgrade should wait until stage 3 since he'd need the S-AFC to control them. On stage one, you really don't need the oil pressure gauge or air/fuel gauge (get readings from the datalogger). The BOV will have to be in stage 2 because the stock 2G IC pipe will not fit the 1G BOV. The air intake I would wait on until you get a turbo that would really need the extra air flow. The lower IC pipe I would stick in with stage 3 since the turbo you buy would dictate which lower IC pipe you might need. I would suggest a CAM upgrade in stage 4 since you'd be swapping out the head. That would be a good time to upgrade those then should you want too. The external waste gate isn't needed on a 16G style turbo, but would be for a 20G or higher.

My $0.02