Wheel Guru's: Help me find a rim (specifics inside)

[Injected]

Okay, I never thought I would have my own "rim" thread, but I am at getting frustrated hunting good looking rims and I need to buy new tires. I don't want to keep the flimsy stockers, of which I have spent about $500 over the past 3 years replacing/reparing.

First, size is fairly important, and I haven't really been sold on 17's nor talked out of 18's, but if you want to try, go ahead. So 18x8 and non-cast. I LOVE A-Symmetric rims (5, 7, and 9 spoke) in either solid or split spoke design. I want the rims to flow with the curvy lines of the car and I absolutely hate the bolts on the rim (not clean in my humble opinion). (SEE PICS BELOW)

Using this, I found several designs I like, but they are all around $600-800 a rim for the one's I actually find. I did come across ROTA's rip off of the Prodrive GC-07, but they only make it in 17x7.5 I think.

Any help finding a rim that looks similar or pics of rims that meet these guidlines is MUCH appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

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[Injected]

I really like the Volk Racing Rays Engineering Progressiv ME (I know, there isn't an e on the end of Progressev) which is the split 7 spoke shown above. I found a clone from Austrailia's Speedy Wheels called the Lite-Fin and are available in 'hyper-black'. Check it out...

I'm also looking into the sizes available. The US site says 17"-18" and I have found a site that sells 17"X7.5" but I want to look for an 18"X8" so I will give them a call.
Rays Engineering forged wheel ~$650-700 a wheel

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Speedy Wheels 18X7.5, $160 a wheel

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[Injected]

Also, these Weds Sports SA-70s are about 300 each, which isn't that bad. What do you guys think of all of these rims?

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[and11200]

My bet's on the GC05 Brithish Black, very sexy rim.

 

[dsmmyth]

I think those prices are definitely too much for a wheel, but if you have the cash and plan on keeping your car for awhile, go for it.

On your car color, I would go with...

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In 17" with thicker rubber.

 

[Injected]

I think those prices are definitely too much for a wheel, but if you have the cash and plan on keeping your car for awhile, go for it.

On your car color, I would go with...

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In 17" with thicker rubber.

Yeah, the black would look good on the GC-07's, but the ROTA replicas called SDR (which are cast and supposedly weigh only 16.5 lbs?) only come in silver, steel gray, gunmetal, gold and bronze finishes.

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My bet's on the GC05 Brithish Black, very sexy rim.

I do like the GC-05's, and there are some good replicas out there, but I reserve the single 5 spoke for more of an american muscle application like a mustang or vette. I've seen some DSMs with nice 5 spokes, but it just isn't for me. If you like them, I could probably find a set of replicas that don't cost $650 per wheel ($2500 a set). I'd like to get new wheels and tires for under $1200 after everything.


Thanks for the input guys. Keep 'em comming.

 

[Attack Eagle]

I found a clone from Austrailia's Speedy Wheels called the Lite-Fin and are available in 'hyper-black'. Check it out...


Speedy Wheels 18X7.5, $160 a wheel

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correction, that's a 17x7.5 and they come in 16x7 or 17x7.5... look at the rim!

they must be pretty heavy when their "lightweight wheel" LIte-7 weighs 18.3 lbs in a 17x7 size.

 

[jayman089]

These are the rims that I 'm getting within the month

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f104/jayman089/190.jpg" border="0" alt="Image hosting by Photobucket"></a>

 

[Injected]

correction, that's a 17x7.5 and they come in 16x7 or 17x7.5... look at the rim!

they must be pretty heavy when their "lightweight wheel" LIte-7 weighs 18.3 lbs in a 17x7 size.

They actually come in both 17 and 18X7.5. Here's one place that sells both: http://www.lakeshorewheelandtire.com/custom/speedy-wheels/Lite-Fin.shtml

The US and AUS site have different sizes listed.

 

[Injected]

These are the rims that I 'm getting within the month

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f104/jayman089/190.jpg" border="0" alt="Image hosting by Photobucket"></a>

Those do look quite a bit like the GC05s.

 

[Injected]

correction, that's a 17x7.5 and they come in 16x7 or 17x7.5... look at the rim!

they must be pretty heavy when their "lightweight wheel" LIte-7 weighs 18.3 lbs in a 17x7 size.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't GSX wheels weigh 25 a piece? Even 19 lbs for a 17X7.5 wouldn't be too bad. SDRs would be a little lighter.

Here's the rundown for now:

Rota SDR (Prodrive GC07 replicas) (7 spoke) in 17X7.5 (17.8 lbs from a new source)
Speedy Lite-Fin (Progressiv ME replicas) (14 spoke) in 17X7.5 (est 18.5 lbs)

Right now, everyone not on this site really likes the Lite-Fins. I think running a superlight 16 lb wheel isn't as cost efficient, but losing 6.5-7 lbs per rim (over stock) is still good. Beyond that, they probably won't be nearly as bendable as the Mitsus, which is very important. Now I have to get a grip on the width. I wanted to run 8's, but I guess 7.5 won't be so bad.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Injected]

I did a quick PS of the Fin and I'll do one in a minute of the Rota (I ripped off the side pic from tirerack.com)

 

[Attack Eagle]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't GSX wheels weigh 25 a piece? Even 19 lbs for a 17X7.5 wouldn't be too bad. SDRs would be a little lighter.

Here's the rundown for now:

Rota SDR (Prodrive GC07 replicas) (7 spoke) in 17X7.5 (17.8 lbs from a new source)
Speedy Lite-Fin (Progressiv ME replicas) (14 spoke) in 17X7.5 (est 18.5 lbs)

Thanks for the input.

26lbs as i remember.

actually I'd personally guess the lite fins 17's are closer to 21lbs since the lite-7 are already 18.3 lbs. I know my ADR Racing Turismos are about that and are a very similar design, as are the OZs they were based on. They are sturdy as heck though!
I'm definately going much lighter on the next set of rims <18 lbs.

 

[Injected]

26lbs as i remember.

actually I'd personally guess the lite fins 17's are closer to 21lbs since the lite-7 are already 18.3 lbs. I know my ADR Racing Turismos are about that and are a very similar design, as are the OZs they were based on. They are sturdy as heck though!
I'm definately going much lighter on the next set of rims <18 lbs.

Thanks again for the input.

I think that in order to lessen rotational inertia and decrease unsprung mass, I'll go with a lighter flywheel and pulleys, maybe uber-expensive wheels later.

I did another PS of the 18" Prodrive PFF7's and 18" Speedy Fin wheels. What do you think? PFF7's are around 300 each.

 

[Attack Eagle]

I like the F7s myself, we share similar tastes in rims...just to much $$$ for me...


as far as weight goes think about it this way:
1) save engine rotating inertia only (I'd say get the 12 lb xact, fidanzas are too light for a daily driver that sees much stop and go- 10 saved lbs at 10 inches diameter) at the expense of some low speed drivability... Note: do not get an underdrive, they cause as many problems (lower voltage for spark, more a/c sag, inefficient cooling, charging and ac at idle) as they "solve", i'm actually gonna get rid of mine to a kid with an automatic for his stocker.

Or save driveline inertia AND unsprung weight improving all drivability aspects with a set of <18lb rims (8 lbs per wheel, at 17 inches diameter total savings 32 lb dry weight and at least 10 times more inertia change. (a wheel is a basically a hoop with weight savings primarily at or near the hoop itself where it does the most good, and a a flywheel is basically a disc, with the weight saved generally towards the center of the flywheel)

I just plugged in measurements in english into the equations to give you an idea of what I am talking about.
moments of inertia for a hoop (I = MR2) and a flat disk (I = ½ MR2)

150 lb.in2 sq. lightweight flywheel 275 lb.in2 . stock = difference 125 lb.in2 .

1300.5 lb.in2 . light weight wheel 1878.5 lb.in2 . stock = difference 578 lb.in2 per wheel
so for all 4 2312 lb.in2


18.4 times the difference for the wheels vs changing the flywheel. a lot more than 3 times the effect like you might believe from looking at just weight difference.


The enkei RS_M is much lighter than that (15.7 lbs) in 17x7 at $266 a piece

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[4g63swap]

I got a set of enki RS7 18x7.5 w/toyo T1R for 1100 from Belle tire. dont just check out online places go to the local places do some running around look through there magazines of all the rims they sell find something you like then go between the local shops and have them beat the price then take the lowest one. you'll be suprised at how much they will come down. Oh ya Never pay full price for anything!

plus if it a local shop they will pay all the shipping. took a week to get but heck i ended up saving 500 bucks. for that price i can wait a week.

chris

 

[Injected]

I like the F7s myself, we share similar tastes in rims...just to much $$$ for me...


as far as weight goes think about it this way:
1) save engine rotating inertia only (I'd say get the 12 lb xact, fidanzas are too light for a daily driver that sees much stop and go- 10 saved lbs at 10 inches diameter) at the expense of some low speed drivability... Note: do not get an underdrive, they cause as many problems (lower voltage for spark, more a/c sag, inefficient cooling, charging and ac at idle) as they "solve", i'm actually gonna get rid of mine to a kid with an automatic for his stocker.

Or save driveline inertia AND unsprung weight improving all drivability aspects with a set of <18lb rims (8 lbs per wheel, at 17 inches diameter total savings 32 lb dry weight and at least 10 times more inertia change. (a wheel is a basically a hoop with weight savings primarily at or near the hoop itself where it does the most good, and a a flywheel is basically a disc, with the weight saved generally towards the center of the flywheel)

I just plugged in measurements in english into the equations to give you an idea of what I am talking about.
moments of inertia for a hoop (I = MR2) and a flat disk (I = ½ MR2)

150 lb.in2 sq. lightweight flywheel 275 lb.in2 . stock = difference 125 lb.in2 .

1300.5 lb.in2 . light weight wheel 1878.5 lb.in2 . stock = difference 578 lb.in2 per wheel
so for all 4 2312 lb.in2


18.4 times the difference for the wheels vs changing the flywheel. a lot more than 3 times the effect like you might believe from looking at just weight difference.


The enkei RS_M is much lighter than that (15.7 lbs) in 17x7 at $266 a piece

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and of course the ever present fno1c is much cheaper, but ever present.


as far as 7 spoke you might check if you can find a weight on konig next... they have to be WAY less than the Prodrives.


Oz ultraleggerras are under $300 a rim as well





Now do you see why I am so nanu nanu about wheel weights?

I'm not really sure about your calculations (maybe the calculator setting). That effect is known as 'equivelent mass' and is the mass equivelency of the net change in the object and how it relates to the radius of the object. The flywheel calculation sounds right, but (and I'm not exactly sure how you put the numbers in) the wheels do not go through the gear or the final gear so those are thrown out of the equation. I have a spreadsheet that I use constantly for the same kinds of calculations.

Do they make the RS-M in any other sizes?

 

[gsxtacy]

On a budget, I found these this weekend for $180.00 for all four rims, locally.

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Can't wait to bronze them and put my Nitto Neo Gens on these rims.

They are Eagle Alloy Series 193, 17x7

Cheapies, and I sure like how they look..

 

[greytalon26]

My favorite is the Kosei K1-TS (check my gallery). $199 each at the tire rack, 14.1 lbs. and made in Japan by Kosei so it's high quality all while looking good with color choices of gold, grey, orange, or silver. They are 17x7 though, but you can get them in 18x7.5 and 18x8, it just costs $275 and $300 for those larger sizes. They're also heavier in those larger sizes-16 lbs. and 17.2 lbs.

 

[Attack Eagle]

I'm not really sure about your calculations (maybe the calculator setting). That effect is known as 'equivelent mass' and is the mass equivelency of the net change in the object and how it relates to the radius of the object. The flywheel calculation sounds right, but (and I'm not exactly sure how you put the numbers in) the wheels do not go through the gear or the final gear so those are thrown out of the equation. I have a spreadsheet that I use constantly for the same kinds of calculations.

Do they make the RS-M in any other sizes?

EH? what difference does gearing have to do with it? Inertia has nothing to do with gearing? The wheel/tire diameter is the final "gear" in your driveline. I'm just talking about an admittedly rough comparison of rotational inertia of each stock object, and aftermarket lightened pieces. then comparison of the total change in rotational inertia. Admittedly I didn't do a real world test, but still the amount of weight savings on 4 much larger diameter wheels can have a far greater effect on acceleration and decel than the flywheel. That's all I was showing with my admittedly rough calculations.

 

[EclipseTrbo420A]

If you like my wheels I have a set in sliver let me know if your interested.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=43446&sort=1&cat=all&page=1

Just a thought.

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[Injected]

EH? what difference does gearing have to do with it? Inertia has nothing to do with gearing? The wheel/tire diameter is the final "gear" in your driveline. I'm just talking about an admittedly rough comparison of rotational inertia of each stock object, and aftermarket lightened pieces. then comparison of the total change in rotational inertia. Admittedly I didn't do a real world test, but still the amount of weight savings on 4 much larger diameter wheels can have a far greater effect on acceleration and decel than the flywheel. That's all I was showing with my admittedly rough calculations.

I'll leave the explanation to Dave Coleman

Rotational Inertia
The rotational inertia topic was so big, it took me two months (June and August '99) to get it sorted out. Here's the deal: There is this rule of thumb among racers that adding weight to something that rotates is far more detrimental to performance than if you add it to the body of the car. This is absolutely true, and by bumbling through some physics, and after slipping and falling on a radian, I managed to get a few formulas figured out that could tell you just how much worse.

Any moving object has kinetic energy, as does an object sitting in place and rotating. An object that is both rotating and moving (like a rolling wheel, for example), has kinetic energy from both, meaning that accelerating or decelerating that rolling object will take more power than one that is just sliding along. How much more power is the question.

The answer, it turns out, depends on how the weight is distributed on the wheel. An extra pound on the tread of a rolling tire has as much kinetic energy as 2 lbs on the floor of the car. As you move toward the center of the wheel, the rotational effect drops until, at the center, a pound is just a pound. The formula I derived to determine the exact relationship between weight on a wheel and weight in the car isn't worth repeating here for one simple reason. It requires that you know the moment of inertia of the wheel, and measuring that is virtually impossible. What you need to know is that changing to tires that are 1 lb heavier will effectively add 8 lbs to the car (four tires, remember) and that adding a pound to the wheels will effectively add somewhere around 6 lbs to the car.

That only considers acceleration and braking; handling is dramatically affected by unsprung weight as well, but no simple formula is going to tell you how big the effect is.

The one useful formula that did come out of my diatribe on inertia was the effect of a light flywheel. Because the flywheel's rotational kinetic energy is directly linked to the car's motion (through the gearbox), you can also calculate the effect of a lighter flywheel. Here's the formula:

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Next month, we will tell you all about the aluminum FocusSport flywheel we just put in our Project Focus. Until then, know this: The flywheel is 12.5 lbs lighter than stock and has a radius of 5.5-inches; the Focus' first gear is 3.667:1, the final drive is 3.82:1, and the tire radius is 12.1 inches. What's it all mean? In first gear, the car feels more than 250 lbs lighter!

As for the other guys. I appreciate your help, but as I said in my very first post, I don't like radially symmetrical rims.

 

[suicidal2af]

I'll leave the explanation to Dave Coleman



As for the other guys. I appreciate your help, but as I said in my very first post, I don't like radially symmetrical rims.

As the article you quoted says, I'd be less concerned with the effects on acceleration and more concerned with the additional unsprug weight of a heavier wheel. It'll make the car handle worse and have a lower ride quality.

If you're going to spend that kind of money on wheels, weight should most definitely be an issue.

 

[Attack Eagle]

BTW check out mb motoring Weapon... at $134 for teh 17x8 it's a great deal, and good looking and not heavy either!

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/product/wheels/mbmwea.gm.xl.jpg

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aka A tech Eraser in japan

http://www.marukanet.co.jp/a-tech/index.html

only low 18lbs for the 17x7 and high 18lbs for the 17x8


BTW Dave's talking about the effects of the lightened inertia being compounded thru the gearing. Do you really lack power in First and second?

 

[Injected]

As the article you quoted says, I'd be less concerned with the effects on acceleration and more concerned with the additional unsprug weight of a heavier wheel. It'll make the car handle worse and have a lower ride quality.

If you're going to spend that kind of money on wheels, weight should most definitely be an issue.

1. I'm looking at the cheaper wheels (160-250 each range).
2. All of the wheels I have are lighter than the stock wheel so that isn't an issue.