what's the proper way to shift?

[450whpGSX]

I have heard that using the brakes to slow down while keeping the car in gear will wear you tranny out. is this true or do you have to put it in neutral then apply the brakes to slow down? what shifting techniques do you guys use when driving?

 

[Mr.Tao]

Hmmm..when i'm in any gear and coming to a stop, I'll stay in that gear coasting and apply brakes until near stop then clutch in and shift or neutral. So no downshifting for me to slow down. Unless downhill.

 

[Generation1JeY]

ok wait i'm really confused right now, so just bear with me for a second.

Ok lets say i see a red light ahead, so i just put the clutch in, and hold it in and brake until i come to a stop. is that bad? and if it is bad, why is it bad? I know he just mentioned the premature failure of the throw out bearing and pressure plate, but does holding the clutch in for a while really do that?

Also u guys are talking about shifting into neutral, and then like 3 people said u shouldnt shift into neutral. So lets say i was just driving and i was feeling lazy and i knew i had to stop or slow down up ahead, so i just shifted into neutral and let go of all the pedals and everything and just coasted and maybe used the brakes while doing that. Is that bad? if it is bad what is bad about it?

If i'm super wrong in either of these situations can someone who really knows what theyre talking about just tell me the BEST DRIVING TECHNIQUE for preserving all drivetrain parts. I want to improve my driving in every chance i get since i'm inexperienced at it, so i want to learn the right techniques to use with my manual tranny while i'm still young.

 

[450whpGSX]

Hmmm..when i'm in any gear and coming to a stop, I'll stay in that gear coasting and apply brakes until near stop then clutch in and shift or neutral. So no downshifting for me to slow down. Unless downhill.

OK now I'm confused as hell. how about Mr.Tao's method? but how does downshifting and matching revs wear out your clutch?

 

[Mr.Tao]

ok, this is how i see it. I dont know about the other guys. BUT...fill me in if i'm giving any incorrect information. Shifting into neutral whenever you feel lazy is fine. Nothing is wrong with that. But it only leaves you vulnerable if you need to gas and move out the way. Unless you are aware and shift back into gear quick. I used to shift to neutral all the time in my 90 Accord and used the brakes alot to slow down and stop. If you are driving on a decline or steep downhill, then dont use your brakes as the only means to slow or stop. YOu need to Use YOur Tranny to help you slow down. Downshift if necessary to slow down. If going down too steep at a high speed and using only your brakes, you will glaze your brakes and that my friend will result in no brakes. But, if all that information was irrelevant and you knew that already, and you only wanted to know which best way to perserve your drivetrain then look at my previous post. It doesnt hurt to coast down on the given gear and using brakes at the same time.

 

[Mr.Tao]

OK now I'm confused as hell. how about Mr.Tao's method? but how does downshifting and matching revs wear out your clutch?

The clutch spins and when you engage and disengage, they rub and wear out. Just like the brake pads.

 

[midnght]

If you are unsure of the rest of your driving habits go here.

They describe it with videos on an M5, .

http://www.standardshift.com/videos.html

 

[bhop]

This is a weird thread.

I've been driving for 15 years. I've always used the engine braking techniques with no harm to my engine, clutch or tranny.

 

[VtecRex]

This is a weird thread.

I've been driving for 15 years. I've always used the engine braking techniques with no harm to my engine, clutch or tranny.

In 15 years, you have never had a clutch wear out?

 

[bhop]

In 15 years, you have never had a clutch wear out?

Actually, now that I think of it, I don't think I have. That's some crazy stuff. Oh wait.. back when I was around 19, my '79 VW Scirocco's clutch went out. That was an old car though (plus I was young and stupid), I think it was the original clutch on it. All cars i've owned with the exception of my first have been manuals.

I've had my Eclipse for 6 years and the clutch is still holding up strong. The slave cylinder has been replaced once, but the clutch itself is still great. I drive pretty aggressively quite often and have since i've owned the car.

Unless you're riding the clutch when you're downshifting, it's not going to wear out your clutch from engine braking. Now, if you're downshifting without rev-matching, or at excessively high revs, then that's probably going to cause some problems. Engine braking is a normal part of driving a stick. I doubt you could find any experienced and/or proffessional drivers that would disagree or at the least say that it's something you should never do.

Ok, I want to add this. This came from the link above with the M5 driving techniques and I agree with it completely. This applies to all cars not just the M5.

"Treated properly, the M5 clutch will last a long time. One of the bmwm5.com board's earliest member/owners has about 60,000 miles on his original clutch, which is still going strong. He also drives his car on the track frequently. The car is not babied. Other members ruined clutches in as little as 5000 miles. What is the difference? Technique!"

 

[treebonker]

Weird indeed.

Hmmm..when i'm in any gear and coming to a stop, I'll stay in that gear coasting and apply brakes until near stop then clutch in and shift or neutral. So no downshifting for me to slow down. Unless downhill.

I believe thats how most people drive/brake, including me. No downshifts, no nothing. Just coat in whatever gear you're at and if traffic speeds up, downshift to the proper gear and go, if its about to stop slip into nuetral/press the clutch and stop. Simple as that.

Only situation I can see someone recommending to downshifting is when braking on a downhill.

And as to why not gear in neutral...like Mr. Tao said, it leaves one totally vulnerable and not to mention it takes longer to stop the car if one suddenly has to.

I'm not saying you have to brake this way all the time. Its just a general principle which I thought everyone knew, guess not.

Why there are posts about clutch wear here, I dont even want to know.

 

[Defiant]

ok wait i'm really confused right now, so just bear with me for a second.

Ok lets say i see a red light ahead, so i just put the clutch in, and hold it in and brake until i come to a stop. is that bad? and if it is bad, why is it bad? I know he just mentioned the premature failure of the throw out bearing and pressure plate, but does holding the clutch in for a while really do that?

It's a very bad habit. You want to keep the drivline connected through the wheels as much as you can. Just brake. You don't need to downshift -although it's awfully handy if you gimpse in your rear-view mirror that the Peterbilt approaching behind you, with the big loud horn and the clouds of tire smoke roiling out from the front fenders, and you're already in a low enough gear to be able to drive out of his way, so you can get a good look as he piles into the guy you'd been behind- it's okay to just use the braking power of modern cars for all your slowing needs. There were more than a few cars, up into the sixties (and mostly British) that really couldn't muster more than a few 60-mph stops in a row.
But don't put in the clutch until you're almost stopped. It's hurting nothing to brake the engine down to 1500 rpm in 5th. Then put in the clutch. When you get to 0 mph, shift to neutral and let out the clutch. When the cross-traffic gets its yellow, put in the clutch, bump 2nd to stop the transmission, and then shift into first.

 

[450whpGSX]

If you are unsure of the rest of your driving habits go here.

They describe it with videos on an M5, .

http://www.standardshift.com/videos.html

thanks man, that website helped.

 

[Generation1JeY]

It's a very bad habit. You want to keep the drivline connected through the wheels as much as you can. Just brake. You don't need to downshift -although it's awfully handy if you gimpse in your rear-view mirror that the Peterbilt approaching behind you, with the big loud horn and the clouds of tire smoke roiling out from the front fenders, and you're already in a low enough gear to be able to drive out of his way, so you can get a good look as he piles into the guy you'd been behind- it's okay to just use the braking power of modern cars for all your slowing needs. There were more than a few cars, up into the sixties (and mostly British) that really couldn't muster more than a few 60-mph stops in a row.
But don't put in the clutch until you're almost stopped. It's hurting nothing to brake the engine down to 1500 rpm in 5th. Then put in the clutch. When you get to 0 mph, shift to neutral and let out the clutch. When the cross-traffic gets its yellow, put in the clutch, bump 2nd to stop the transmission, and then shift into first.

ok wait, so moving with the clutch in is bad? i'm so confused on why thats a bad habbit, does it just put stress on something from holding it out for so long? also i'm kinda confused on what u mean at the end, ur saying only put in the clutch right before ur car starts bogging and bucking and all that from being in too high of a gear. and then what do u mean "bump 2nd to stop the transmission"? U mean put the clutch in, go into second and then go into first? how does that work?

 

[Mr.Tao]

Putting in the clutch is fine if you can endure pushing on the clutch through the entire time the traffic light is red, but I have a 2600 ACT pressure plate with the stock fork. I dont want to risk losing my fork anytime soon, so i try to clutch in only when i need to.

 

[TransDSM]

I know it's law in California to keep the vehicle in gear while in motion. It's in the Driver Handbook. Gives you a chance to make a move if need be.

 

[450whpGSX]

ok wait, so moving with the clutch in is bad? i'm so confused on why thats a bad habbit, does it just put stress on something from holding it out for so long? also i'm kinda confused on what u mean at the end, ur saying only put in the clutch right before ur car starts bogging and bucking and all that from being in too high of a gear. and then what do u mean "bump 2nd to stop the transmission"? U mean put the clutch in, go into second and then go into first? how does that work?

Same here. what the hell does "bump second" mean

 

[leakyfaucet]

It's hurting nothing to brake the engine down to 1500 rpm in 5th.

Except your gas mileage (slightly).

Like Defiant said, modern cars have good brakes. Use them. The brakes are designed to slow the car down. The engine was designed to make the car move. Don't use the engine for something the brakes were designed to do. (Except maybe if you're on ice)

Also, there is nothing wrong with putting the car in neutral while you roll. It actually saves the TOB a bit.

Leaving the car in gear to slow down is fine. Downshifting to aid this slowdown is pretty retarded.

 

[Defiant]

Same here. what the hell does "bump second" mean

Hm. Evaporating reply.

Anyway, again, just before you shift into first, you just bring the shifter back against second gear, and its synchros will brake the transmission countershaft, leaving the guts at a dead stop and letting you shift into first without a "crunch". You don't shift it into second, just kind of bump it against it.

When your first car was a Sprite with a crash first gear, you learn little things

 

[450whpGSX]

So it is ok to be in fifth gear, apply the brakes to slow down to abot 1700rpm, then match revs and downshift to first whithout any damage done to anything?

 

[kyledykstra]

So it is ok to be in fifth gear, apply the brakes to slow down to abot 1700rpm, then match revs and downshift to first whithout any damage done to anything?

I wouldn't downshift into first while moving... there should almost never be a reason you'd have to. I think what they mean is leave it fifth until you're almost stopped, then put the clutch in and shift to neutral. While you are stopped, just before you're ready to go, move the shifter to the left, pull it back slightly to the 2nd gear stop so it barely engages, and then shift into first and go.

 

[boostedinaz]

Jesus, so many people talking.

Here we go.

First lets get all the parts straight that we are talking about. Brake pads, sychros, clutches, and TOB are all wear items. They wear out each time you use them no matter what. Slipping the clutch for a good launch will wear out a clutch faster then normal driving but everytime you use it you take its life away. Same goes for all other wear parts.

Now when people rev match it is NEVER a perfect match and it will wear the clutch and synchros. Sure this may be just a bit, but add it up over so many shifts per day, days in a month and so on and it does add up.

The tranny DOES NOT do the breaking the motor does and the tranny just allows the motor to do it.

Now. like Defiant has said, the only reason you would need to rev match or keep a car in gear is incase something from behind is not stopping and you need to move out of the way. Other than that just pop it in N and use the brakes, that is there job. If you do keep the car in gear, say 5th, and slow down it wont harm anything or wear out anything prematurly. If you keep the clutch pushed in for extended perionds of time it puts alot of stress on the pressure plate, TOB, and all the linkage under the dash. Now of you have a 2600 and havent welded you linkage then I DO NOT recomend this. Our linkage isnt that great in the first place and adding stress is just asking for problelms.

Now for the "best method". I usually slow down a bit in 5th gear and then shift into 3rd, for the reason Defiant posted, and when I get to about 1500 RPM in 3rd I push the clutch in and rest at the light in N. When I can see that the light is going to turn grenn I put it in first, or do what ever ritual you may need to to get it into first, and drive away.

That is my method, but you choose what ever works for you. Just remember that breaks are made for slowing you down and are cheaper and easier to replace that and tranny related parts.

I hope that helped clear up some confusions.

 

[jumpman]

i've always heard to downshift to brake.
1: over use of breaks causes them to heat up, glaze over and not work properly.
2: theres just something about the engine and tranny spinning at 2 different speeds and at the same time being so so close together.

Partially Correct. Remember that power brakes rely on engine vacuum to add braking power to your foot (for an explanation try here http://www.howstuffworks.com/power-brake.htm).

When the car is at idle you are only producing a fraction of the vacuum power that you can produce at normal operating RPMs (aka 2~3k) therefore a fraction of the braking power. A practical application is try to stop the car when the engine dies.

There are two acceptable ways to stop a car with a manual transmission.

1.) Leave it in gear until it reaches a low enough rpm to shift into neutral safely. Which even in 5th you can get down to around 20mph and still be in a safe range (around 1500 RPM).

2.) Downshift at appropriate intervals until you hit a safe speed to shift into neutral.


Cheers,
CMF

 

[boostedinaz]

They are designed to work off the amount of vacuum the engine makes at idle. So when the car is decelerating it would just give a bit more assist than at idle.

 

[Eclipsemblue]

i go into a neutral roll when stopping or when rolling down hills saves gas but anyway i push in the clutch when i go into neutral. i was wondering is it ok to just shift it into neutral and not push in the clutch cause ive done it before and nothing grinds i just want to know if this is ok to do.

 

[tommiman]

I double clutch upshifting and downshifting most of the time. Only if I need to pass someone or other similar situation I shift normally. I think this is the most stress free method. Also, I coast in neutral when I'm coming to a stop. Saves on gas over a long period of time.