What size injectors should I get?

[b00sted95gsx]

I want to get new injectors and I just wanted to know what a good size would be.Heres some of my mods...Evo III gt 16g turbo, Greddy fmic, Apexi N1 exhaust, Injen intake, tial wastegate, greddy type rs bov, wideband, boost, and oil pressure gauges.I dont have any type of tuning tools so I will have to get one when I get injectors.

1.) What size injectors should I get?
2.) What type of tuning tool should I get?

 

[CJTurbo]

If you go with 550's which I had with my 16G, I have a set of RC 550 i'll sell you in excellent cond.

 

[oldman420]

i have pte 680's, they overflow though. Rough tunes with my safc havn't worked out too well, running pig rich. Good thing it's off the road becuase of speeding tickets, it's giving my time and money for a new tranny and dsmlink. Seriously though i'm going through this right now, go dsmlink. Why put a couple thousand into the car and cheap out on the brain, it just doesn't make sense.

 

[98eclipsekidd08]

How are precision 680's are they any good?

I have precision 580's and they work awsome, not exactly the 680's your looking at but same company.

 

[Splitpi]

I want to get new injectors and I just wanted to know what a good size would be.Heres some of my mods...Evo III gt 16g turbo, Greddy fmic, Apexi N1 exhaust, Injen intake, tial wastegate, greddy type rs bov, wideband, boost, and oil pressure gauges.I dont have any type of tuning tools so I will have to get one when I get injectors.

1.) What size injectors should I get?
2.) What type of tuning tool should I get?

1) stock 450's till you get a tuning tool.
2) I recommend DSMLink, but it is costly and especially so if you do not already have an Eeprom ECU. Else consider ECU+ as good alternative and with better features than an SAFCII. Else choose an SAFC.

with DSMLink get the largest injectors you can afford... I recommend 850's

ECU+ I believe it can ran up to 850's... though you may want to consider 750's.

SAFC 550 to 650's max.

If you want big potential then that leaves DSMLink and ECU+ as your best choices.... In my opinion.

 

[b00sted95gsx]

Well if I went with anything bigger than 650's I would get dsmlink...but the question is do I really need anything bigger than 650's to reach 350awhp? I'm not trying to bench race but i dont wanna buy injectors that aren't gonna flow enough and I also dont wanna buy injectors that are gonna flow to much which means I would have to get dsmlink instead of a safc. So my question now is should I go with 650's and a safc or bigger injectors and dsmlink?

 

[Splitpi]

Well if I went with anything bigger than 650's I would get dsmlink...but the question is do I really need anything bigger than 650's to reach 350awhp? I'm not trying to bench race but i dont wanna buy injectors that aren't gonna flow enough and I also dont wanna buy injectors that are gonna flow to much which means I would have to get dsmlink instead of a safc. So my question now is should I go with 650's and a safc or bigger injectors and dsmlink?

Calculate for yourself.

Crank HP = (((injector size)/10.5) * IDC) / BSFC) * 4

BSFC is a guess but I would use a range from .55 to .65. And IDC I would use 80%.

So Solving for 350 Crank HP:

350 = ((Size)/10.5) * .80) / .55) *4
Size = 650 cc/min @ .55 BSFC and 80% IDC
Size = 750 cc/min @ .65 BSFC and 80% IDC

If you assume worst case you would choose the 750's for 350 Crank HP so you have a safety margin. Because until you get the car on the Dyno you really can only guess what the BSFC is and even then it will very due to air temperature, humidity, car temperature, gasoline mixture... etc... So I think a range of potential is the best way to express it and then work with the worst case to ensure you remain in limits.

 

[CJTurbo]

The important question is where do you want to be at the end of the day. If you ever plan on upgrading to a larger turbo, 20g/ full garret, who knows, plan for the future. I would go with bigger injectors instead of this will work for now mind set. If you plan on getting serious which usually happens after you get a taste, go with the DSM link and larger injectors, it will work for you now and later on. Just my 2 cents

 

[b00sted95gsx]

What about PTE 680's and dsmlink? I can get 680's super cheap from a friend.

 

[Splitpi]

What about PTE 680's and dsmlink? I can get 680's super cheap from a friend.

DSMLink has been successfuly run on upwards of 1200 cc/min injectors. It has no problems with 680's.

However if you goal is 350 wheel HP, you'll never reach it without running into fuel delivery issues.

 

[b00sted95gsx]

What would hold me back from making 350whp if I use 680cc injectors?

 

[b00sted95gsx]

I'm also gonna be running 93 octane fuel all the time if that matters.

 

[Splitpi]

What would hold me back from making 350whp if I use 680cc injectors?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...ize-injectors-should-i-get.html#post151471766

 

[b00sted95gsx]

I read somewhere that 650's can flow enough to make 400hp so 680's seem like they would be enough but I dont know.

 

[Atuca]

Yea gonna be honest here, my first thread here was, I want an exhaust, intake filter, and BOV.

Once I got those, it never stopped. I would reccomment you deffinatly plan for the future, the injectors are usually close if not the same price for bigger injectors. I am getting DSMlink now and am very happy with my descion. Plan for the future, be safe, and you will be happy.

 

[b00sted95gsx]

Trust me all I want is 350awhp and I will be more than happy.Like I said I'm only 16 I don't want a extremely fast car and I'm not really the type of person that always wants more like most people.

 

[1999silverGSX]

i don't see why 650's or 680's wouldn't suffice for 350awhp? If someone can prove me wrong please feel free to do so. Also I have a SAFC-neo and a 190lph fuel pump which i no longer need since my car got totaled. Both are brand new in box.. was hoping to install this summer but thats not gonna happen.

 

[b00sted95gsx]

Anyone know the max boost I would be able to run with 680cc injectors?

 

[1999silverGSX]

Hard to say all depends on the setup and the tune/tuner exp.

 

[b00sted95gsx]

Do you think I would be able to run 18psi of boost?

 

[oldman420]

Yah, these guys all want to make big power, buy the pte 680's with dsmlink. Remember that re-sale on injectors isn't bad either, i almost bought mine used for 250$.

 

[Splitpi]

Crank HP max from 680's:

cHP = (((680/10.5) *. 8) / .55 )* 4 = 376 hp at 80% IDC

This is on a very efficient turbo engine with a clean intake, exhaust, cams, ideal volumentric efficiency etc, etc... to get a .55 bfsc.

Crank HP min from 680's:

cHP = (((680/10.5) * .8) / .65) * 4 = 318 hp at 80% IDC

This is on a very inefficient engine.

Lets say you throw caution to the wind and run your injectors in a static mode of greater than 80% IDC of say 93%.

max Crank hp = 447 @ 93% IDC
min Crank Hp = 371 @ 93% IDC

Also yet again these ranges are for CRANK horsepower, not Wheel Horsepower. So you will need to further reduce the values to reach wheel horsepower. As I said in the previous post. If 350 WHEEL hp is your goal, your fuel delivery choice may hold you back [most likely will]. Also you will need a Walbro 255 and FPR at a minimum to reach 350 whp. And depending upon the boost level ... that may come into question ( i.e. greater than 24 psi on the Wally 255 with a rewire).

And for perspective 350 whp is roughly twice the output of the stock motor. And yes its attainable, no it is not easy and while people do reach that goal with a Evo 16G its not easily attainable as say using a 50 trim which can do it with less modifications and work. 350 whp is high goal as the engine will be making between an estimate of 400 to 415 hp at the crank.

i am not trying to dissuade you. I am trying to help you realize what it takes to reach those numbers and how to reach them and in my opinion do it safely. I don't know how efficient your engine so I can only guess the potential ranges (which I have done). The only way we can know is to put your car on a Dyno and measure it. And then it can change between each runs, it can change due to air temperature, humidity, if you raise boost it changes things... etc... etc... Its a guess till the dyno run and then its only a finite value for that dyno run. But it does give us a narrower range to work with mind you.

Best of luck. You seem set on the 680's.

 

[b00sted95gsx]

Well I already have a Walbro 255 fuel pump...I was hoping to run around 18-20 psi boost.