what is better, more timing or leaner mixture???

[TSIfreek]

Sorry looking at the log again you are running 100% I like to see them leaner than that around 110 -112.

 

[sweet97]

I agree, lean WOT a click or two and do another pull. If knock goes up back off the boost. What is your base fuel pressure set at, line off? Looks much better TONY! CONGRATS! Mark

 

[91-gsx]

thanks for the congrats, but, yes there is a but. take a look at the second run i made today, actually half an hour ago. the trims have all changed once again to 139%, which is the maximum they can go to. this is bull, there is something wrong with my car, the trims change all of the time and i know for damn sure that i am running really rich because the car does not feel as fast and does not pull as hard. man i need help figuring this out, i have not seen anything like this before i log one day and the trims say one thing, the next they say something else...? here are the 2 logs i just took.
first one is with no changes so it should look like the other one for the most part, but not it does not. this is with the maft set at 430cc inj's and the base, mid and wot switch at 0.
the second one is when i took -5% out of wot.

timing   lowt     midt      hight      EGRT       o2V    throttle   rpm   knock  injector PW
29°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	302.3°C	0.08V	30.2%	2000	0	3.84ms
28°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	302.3°C	0.06V	30.6%	2031	0	3.84ms
28°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	300.8°C	0.06V	31.4%	2094	0	4.10ms
28°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	300.8°C	0.06V	32.2%	2125	0	4.35ms
28°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	299.3°C	0.10V	32.5%	2156	0	4.35ms
28°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	297.8°C	0.23V	37.3%	2250	0	4.86ms
27°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	296.3°C	0.86V	37.6%	2281	0	5.12ms
27°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	296.3°C	0.88V	37.6%	2375	0	4.86ms
27°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	294.8°C	0.84V	42.7%	2438	0	5.12ms
25°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	294.8°C	0.68V	45.1%	2500	0	5.12ms
24°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	290.3°C	0.80V	71.0%	2594	0	5.89ms
22°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	287.3°C	0.88V	100.0%	2688	0	6.40ms
20°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	284.3°C	0.88V	100.0%	2781	0	6.91ms
19°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	275.3°C	0.92V	100.0%	2906	0	8.45ms
17°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	263.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	3031	0	10.75ms
13°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	251.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	3125	0	12.80ms
12°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	233.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	3281	0	15.62ms
11°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	219.8°C	0.96V	100.0%	3406	0	17.41ms
10°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	227.3°C	0.96V	100.0%	3563	1	15.36ms
12°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	233.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	3781	1	13.57ms
12°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	221.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	4000	14	14.59ms
10°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	216.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	4219	14	14.59ms
10°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	209.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	4344	13	15.10ms
11°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	203.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	4438	13	15.62ms
10°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	195.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	4625	12	16.13ms
11°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	191.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	4844	12	15.87ms
11°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	188.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	4969	11	15.87ms
11°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	188.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	5063	11	15.62ms
11°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	182.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	5281	11	15.62ms
13°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	185.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	5344	11	15.10ms
13°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	183.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	5500	11	14.85ms
14°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	183.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	5625	10	14.59ms
14°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	182.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	5688	11	14.59ms
14°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	176.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	5813	10	14.85ms
14°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	176.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	5844	10	14.85ms
13°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	174.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	5875	10	14.85ms
13°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	168.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	6031	9	15.10ms
14°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	168.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	6156	9	14.85ms
14°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	170.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	6188	9	14.59ms
16°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	167.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	6313	8	14.59ms
15°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	168.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	6375	8	14.34ms
15°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	170.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	6438	7	14.08ms
16°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	168.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	6625	7	13.82ms
16°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	171.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	6563	7	13.57ms
16°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	165.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	6750	6	13.82ms
16°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	164.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	6781	7	13.82ms
16°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	164.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	6813	6	13.82ms
17°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	161.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	6813	6	14.08ms
17°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	156.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	7000	6	14.08ms
17°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	314.3°C	0.80V	11.0%	6906	0	0.00ms
40°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	302.3°C	0.37V	11.0%	6125	0	1.28ms
40°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	303.8°C	0.08V	11.0%	5188	0	1.28ms
40°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	305.3°C	0.20V	11.0%	4469	0	1.28ms
40°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	314.3°C	0.33V	11.0%	3875	0	0.00ms
27°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	314.3°C	0.82V	11.0%	3406	0	0.00ms
25°	113.9%	139.6%	139.6%	314.3°C	0.20V	11.0%	2938	0	0.00ms

timing  lowt       midt      hight      EGRT     o2V   throttle  rpm    knock  injector PW
26°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	303.8°C	0.04V	35.3%	1781	0	4.10ms
25°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	302.3°C	0.04V	35.7%	1813	0	4.35ms
25°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	300.8°C	0.06V	35.7%	1875	0	4.61ms
24°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	300.8°C	0.66V	35.3%	1906	0	4.61ms
25°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	300.8°C	0.86V	37.3%	2000	0	4.61ms
25°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	299.3°C	0.62V	42.0%	2031	0	4.86ms
25°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	297.8°C	0.16V	45.9%	2156	0	5.12ms
24°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	294.8°C	0.84V	54.1%	2188	0	5.63ms
24°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	294.8°C	0.90V	73.7%	2250	0	5.63ms
24°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	293.3°C	0.90V	100.0%	2344	0	5.89ms
23°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	290.3°C	0.90V	100.0%	2438	0	6.14ms
22°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	291.8°C	0.90V	100.0%	2500	0	5.89ms
21°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	288.8°C	0.88V	100.0%	2594	0	6.40ms
20°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	285.8°C	0.90V	100.0%	2688	0	6.66ms
20°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	279.8°C	0.88V	100.0%	2813	0	7.94ms
17°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	270.8°C	0.92V	100.0%	2938	0	9.47ms
15°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	257.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	3063	0	11.78ms
12°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	243.8°C	0.96V	100.0%	3188	0	13.82ms
12°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	224.3°C	0.96V	100.0%	3375	0	16.64ms
10°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	227.3°C	0.96V	100.0%	3469	0	15.87ms
13°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	234.8°C	0.96V	100.0%	3719	13	13.57ms
9°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	233.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	3938	13	13.06ms
11°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	222.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	4063	19	14.08ms
8°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	215.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	4313	19	14.34ms
9°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	209.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	4438	18	14.85ms
9°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	201.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	4594	18	15.36ms
10°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	200.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	4750	17	15.10ms
10°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	198.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	4906	17	14.85ms
10°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	192.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	5125	17	14.85ms
11°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	192.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	5250	17	14.59ms
12°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	189.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	5469	16	14.34ms
12°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	189.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	5531	16	14.08ms
14°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	189.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	5625	15	13.82ms
13°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	186.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	5781	16	13.82ms
13°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	186.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	5813	16	13.82ms
15°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	179.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	6000	15	14.08ms
13°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	177.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	6063	17	14.08ms
13°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	177.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	6094	16	14.08ms
13°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	176.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	6281	16	13.82ms
13°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	177.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	6344	16	13.57ms
13°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	176.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	6531	15	13.31ms
13°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	174.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	6563	16	13.31ms
13°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	177.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	6594	16	13.06ms
14°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	176.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	6625	15	13.06ms
14°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	176.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	6656	15	13.06ms
14°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	170.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	6781	14	13.31ms
14°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	173.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	6750	14	13.06ms
14°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	168.8°C	0.94V	100.0%	6844	14	13.31ms
14°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	167.3°C	0.94V	100.0%	7031	14	13.06ms
14°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	314.3°C	0.90V	11.4%	6688	0	0.00ms
40°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	314.3°C	0.33V	11.0%	6219	0	0.00ms
40°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	303.8°C	0.06V	11.0%	5344	0	1.28ms
40°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	305.3°C	0.55V	11.0%	4563	0	1.28ms
40°	114.7%	139.6%	139.6%	314.3°C	0.76V	11.0%	3938	0	0.00ms

i do not know what to do anymore, this is not supposed to be this hard...
thanks for the help and support

 

[dnhieu]

did you eliminate all boost leaks yet? boost leaks will cause your car to run rich as your o2's tell everyone. also i dont now if this is your problem but do you have lifter tick? when was the last time you changed out your knock sensor? i dont know if people have already said this stuff but you might be pickin up knock you dont really have.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

i suggest borrowing an ECU from someone. Your fuel trims staying the same all the time makes me wonder if your ECU is busted.

 

[v8s_are_slow]

i suggest borrowing an ECU from someone. Your fuel trims staying the same all the time makes me wonder if your ECU is busted.

I didn't read the whole thread but saw this and thought I'd post. A bad O2 sensor would cause the trims to stay the same as well. As well as a very low temp thermostat. Or if the coolant temp sensor is bad, that could cause it as well. Just a lil additional info to add.

 

[91-gsx]

i do not understand why this is happening but i am going to do a boost leak test. but its safe to say that putting my base inj size on 430cc might reduce knock but there is something wrong with the electrical or mechanical aspect of the car, so from a tuning standpoint the car is running really rich, and it does feel slower then before, with more knock, and crappy gas mileage. going to keep trying to figure this stuff out, but if you have any ideas, please tell me. does it look like my o2 sensor is working, it seems to change voltage readings? and the car has always taken a while to warm up sense i bought it, my thermostat might be out but i think my temp sensor is working for the coolant because i remember seeing the temp go up once on my logger.
thanks for the help

 

[91-gsx]

i do not understand why this is happening but i am going to do a boost leak test. but its safe to say that putting my base inj size on 430cc might reduce knock but there is something wrong with the electrical or mechanical aspect of the car, so from a tuning standpoint the car is running really rich, and it does feel slower then before, with more knock, and crappy gas mileage. going to keep trying to figure this stuff out, but if you have any ideas, please tell me. does it look like my o2 sensor is working, it seems to change voltage readings? and the car has always taken a while to warm up sense i bought it, my thermostat might be out but i think my temp sensor is working for the coolant because i remember seeing the temp go up once on my logger.
thanks for the help

 

[91-gsx]

well i just did a little boost leak test and i was using a bike pump which should work for gradually building boost, whether i use a bike pump or not it should not make a difference, a leak is a leak. and i do not have a compressor. anyway, it would not build past 5 psi, and when i would stop pumping to hear where the leak is coming from, i heard a hissing around the intake manifold area. man this sucks, i would not mind so much if i had more time to work on this car. i do not think that dsm's are unreliable, but they are older cars and cars need this stuff changed every once in a while, it just so happened they gave out when i had them.... so i don't know what to do, have any of you experienced this, i do not know where to start?
appreciate the help.

 

[sweet97]

Tony invest in a compressor of some kind as a bike pump will not give you enough comoression. The rule of thumb is to hold 20PSI for 30 seconds. Often the TB seals leak, mine do but I don't know who sells seals yet. The 1G intake also has 4 hoses that if original could leak. I once had an injector leak. Started using high temp silicone on the lower rubber ring that goes into the head and no leak and easier to instal the rail/injectors. There's a start for the intake area! Mark
PS: wiggle the vac lines attached to the intake and check for the cracks that could cause a leak.

 

[91-gsx]

well i found out that my 14b might be leaking some air somewhere around the housing but it is really small and takes a long time to release all of the pressure, no biggy. i disconnected all of my tubing up until the throttle body elbow and tested it. that is when i heard the turbo leaking a little. other then that if i kept pumping the bov would open up, so i seem to have pushed it quite a bit before it opened up. so the piping is nice and tight. to bad i cannot say the same for the intake manifold... the injector seals are the things causing my boost leak. i cannot push more then 4 psi before they begin to release the pressure, if i pump to 7 psi, they work the psi down to 0. i took the seals out that are basically new because i put new ones in with my injectors, and put gasket maker on them to maybe seal better. put everything back together, they hold about 4 but anything above that they just hisssssss... if you move the injectors while i pump the air in, they just release the pressure. i thought i had other leaks and tried to fix them but it turned out that it was the injector seals for now. i could see some gas around the seals as well. i have 750cc RC injectors and I'm not sure i should use the stock replacement injector seals. they do not seems to push into place like they do on the stock ones. does RC have a special seal? another thing i did was cap off the intake manifold were the valve cover breather attaches to it in the back of the valve cover. has anyone done this. i think it is good because the breather that hooks up to your stock intake, is bypassed by me and many others that want to eliminate oil in their intake. but if you pressurize the intake manifold, you will notice that air escapes out of that valve cover hole, on the left side of the valve cover, which has been already counted by the mas. next time you pressurize the intake manifold or tubing, put your finger over the valve cover hole on the left side and pressurize your intake and remove your finger, it will release the pressure. not good... so i bypassed it. this is getting long, but if you know why my injectors are not sealing please help, or have gone through this.
thanks for the help

 

[sweet97]

Tony I have had my injector seals leak at the head before also. What I do now is use high temp(700*) silicone to hold the rubber rings in the head. If you have the time let them set up overnight and then assemble the fuel rail. No more leaks. Mine sounded like the horn on a ship!! You can find the silicone at hardware and auto stores. It also makes installing the rail that much easier. Be sure your injectors have the small o-ring on the top and the rubber section with 2 ridges below the o-ring so that the injectors have the other piece fit tight into the rail. I once did not have those second rubber pieces on because my injectors did come with them but I took them from stock injectors and great tight fit for my inj's!
You're doing a great job getting these small but important things fixed and they can make such a big difference. Keep it up, you're doing a great job! Fixing those inj leaks will help you much. Mark

 

[TSIfreek]

Your PCV is leaking replace it with a MITSUBISHI ONLY PCV from the dealer.

 

[dnhieu]

Tony invest in a compressor of some kind as a bike pump will not give you enough comoression. The rule of thumb is to hold 20PSI for 30 seconds. Often the TB seals leak, mine do but I don't know who sells seals yet. The 1G intake also has 4 hoses that if original could leak. I once had an injector leak. Started using high temp silicone on the lower rubber ring that goes into the head and no leak and easier to instal the rail/injectors. There's a start for the intake area! Mark
PS: wiggle the vac lines attached to the intake and check for the cracks that could cause a leak.

i rebuilt my tb recently using this How To! http://www.plymouthlaser.com/tbor.htm i didnt go out and find the seals. i just went to the store and bought a o ring kit and it came with the size needed to replace the seals. i also used the o ring kit to replace my injector o rings. i did this about 3-4 months ago and still no boost leak at the tb or the injectors. hope that helps!

david

 

[91-gsx]

mark i am going to try what you told me and use high temp silicone to seal the injector seals. did you put it on the outside of the dougnut and the inside so that it could seal better with the injector? why is mine leaking, and yours, but others do not? shouldnt be that way right?
thanks

 

[sweet97]

JUST the outside of the donut Tony, then a dab of grease on the injector end being careful not to get any grease onto the section where the fuel is sprayed out, just the sides where the inj will seal against the inj. A lot of guys use grease or petroleum jelly on the donuts. I found that the silicone helps keep the donuts in place for easier injector/rail installs and better sealing. Mark