Want to drive again!!

[evogst97]

Well both me and my brother have been in the dsm game for a year or so and working on our cars together. We've gone through a lot of crap but the fun of having this car makes up for it. Anyways we both were having some problems and decided to do some headwork at the same time. He's been getting most of his info off this forum and I figured I'd join too.

Well anyways heres my current situation. My turbo blew so I put an Evo III in. Then we did the head work due to some oil being burnt or so we think.

Right now I have two main problems.

1:

White smoke comes out the exhaust at idle. I havent gotten to drive it much to see if it comes out while driving. The coolant was recently filled and now the reservoir is a little low but I'm not sure if it has to do with it being lost or just being filled throughout the system. It seems like the oil is a little low but thats hard to tell also because of the same reason. I've checked the PCV valve and it works fine(only blows air through one side). No boost leaks from when I checked from the turbo but I still need to check from the throttle body. Also I will check the intercooler piping for oil asap. Not Head related or valve seals or anything. Just had them all done and the compression is near perfect. My brothers having similar problems but we both cant't figure it out.

2:

Idle is lumpy...like it skips a beat. Timing is good and no boost/vacuum leaks. The vacuum does read 10-11 hg where it used to read 20 before the cylinder head job. Will check the BISS oring soon as well as maybe clean the throttle body but 10 hg's difference seems like a lot. My mbc seems to be working well and have never had problems with it.



Any help on either of these problems would be great. Feel free to pm me or just leave a reply. It's cool to finally be part of the online dsm community.

 

[silver bullit]

1.Coolant
2.ICS

 

[silver bullit]

Or may need to play around with the idle screw.

 

[evogst97]

1.Coolant
2.ICS

Didn't want to deal with the ICS until I had to but maybe thats it.

As for the coolant where would it be coming from? I have no leaks and my head has great compression.

Or may need to play around with the idle screw.

Tried that. No luck whatsoever.

 

[turbodsm18]

When you car is warmed up what does it idle at?

Also, whats the temperature outside, since its extremely cold(atleast when I live) your car will blow out white smoke, but its not anything to do with your motor.

 

[evogst97]

When you car is warmed up what does it idle at?

Well the first minute or so it just idles at like 1k and sounds smooth then it will go down to like 900 and go up to 1200 and back down and up and so on. I also notice the lights under the dash faded or flickered once in a while too.

Its about 58-65 degrees outside.

 

[silver bullit]

Didn't want to deal with the ICS until I had to but maybe thats it.

As for the coolant where would it be coming from? I have no leaks and my head has great compression.


Tried that. No luck whatsoever.

Well there you go if you procrastinate then youll waste money on unnessesary repairs.
It could be from the turbo head etc or could be that you did not flush the oil out enough to get all the blown turbo crap out of the oil.

Well the first minute or so it just idles at like 1k and sounds smooth then it will go down to like 900 and go up to 1200 and back down and up and so on. I also notice the lights under the dash faded or flickered once in a while too.

Its about 58-65 degrees outside.

"I also notice the lights under the dash faded or flickered once in a while too." that is a electrical short or electrical ground and or open wire touching the frame.

 

[evogst97]

Well there you go if you procrastinate then youll waste money on unnessesary repairs.
It could be from the turbo head etc or could be that you did not flush the oil out enough to get all the blown turbo crap out of the oil.


"I also notice the lights under the dash faded or flickered once in a while too." that is a electrical short or electrical ground and or open wire touching the frame.

I was told not to use an engine flush but did do an oil change. Also I cant remember because my bro did most of the turbo stuff but I'm pretty sure it was just the seals not anything that would be in the oil. I'm taking the turbo off tomorrow to check it. Both sides.



I think that the flicker might be just because the idle gets low and it feels like it wants to die (surging) but I will check the ground wire.

 

[92awddsm]

Drain all the oil out of the ic that the blown turbo left behind and most of your smoking will probably go away.

 

[evogst97]

Drain all the oil out of the ic that the blown turbo left behind and most of your smoking will probably go away.

Will do. Well I'm not sure if the car is losing oil or not because I havent been driving It because of the idle and smoke problems but if it is is the only other option my turbo. I'm pretty sure its not my head. It would have to be some crazy blowby. Also I dont see any oil in my filter from my valve cover so I'm thinking Im not getting much blowby.

 

[merqury]

Idle is lumpy...like it skips a beat. Timing is good and no boost/vacuum leaks. The vacuum does read 10-11 hg where it used to read 20 before the cylinder head job.

I have the EXACT same problem and replacing the ISC didn't help. It still idles at 8-10 instead of 20.

 

[92awddsm]

Will do. Well I'm not sure if the car is losing oil or not because I havent been driving It because of the idle and smoke problems but if it is is the only other option my turbo. I'm pretty sure its not my head. It would have to be some crazy blowby. Also I dont see any oil in my filter from my valve cover so I'm thinking Im not getting much blowby.

First off, check the intercooler. Most of the time, when a turbo takes a dump, it will dump at least 1 qt of oil into the ic. If you didnt remove and clean the ic before the new turbo install, this is most likely your problem.

Whether the ic has oil in it or not, remove the intake pipe from the turbo and check the turbo inlet for signs of oil in it. Next, remove the licp and check both the piping and compressor outlet for oil residue. Actually, remove all the piping, ic, etc and clean any and all oil residue and reinstall. If that takes care of the smoking, you know it was just left from the old turbo. If it still smokes afterwards, at least you know everything was clean so you can pull it all back off and then be able to pinpoint where the oil is coming from.

Another thing I have seen is that the dp and cat have been filled with oil also and only after 30 or so minutes of running did the oil finally burn out of the exhaust. I personally would clean all the ic piping and ic, give it some run time, and then if the smoke continues, start pulling other parts.

 

[evogst97]

First off, check the intercooler. Most of the time, when a turbo takes a dump, it will dump at least 1 qt of oil into the ic. If you didnt remove and clean the ic before the new turbo install, this is most likely your problem.

Whether the ic has oil in it or not, remove the intake pipe from the turbo and check the turbo inlet for signs of oil in it. Next, remove the licp and check both the piping and compressor outlet for oil residue. Actually, remove all the piping, ic, etc and clean any and all oil residue and reinstall. If that takes care of the smoking, you know it was just left from the old turbo. If it still smokes afterwards, at least you know everything was clean so you can pull it all back off and then be able to pinpoint where the oil is coming from.

Another thing I have seen is that the dp and cat have been filled with oil also and only after 30 or so minutes of running did the oil finally burn out of the exhaust. I personally would clean all the ic piping and ic, give it some run time, and then if the smoke continues, start pulling other parts.

Sounds like a good plan. I will check the turbo and the intercooler piping tomorrow and get back to you. Anyone feel free to leave replies on any ideas for either problem in the meantime. Thanks alot guys for helping me out.

 

[evogst97]

Well I ran into a couple problems and I have two exams and a paper due tomorrow so I can't work on it until tomorrow. I will update then.

 

[97redgsx]

i was thinking of cleaning my IC soon, since i spent all my money on a turbo and cant afford a fmic... is it adviseable to clean it out with brake/carb cleaner or gas or what? i figure its probly not a good idea to use water....

 

[92awddsm]

i was thinking of cleaning my IC soon, since i spent all my money on a turbo and cant afford a fmic... is it adviseable to clean it out with brake/carb cleaner or gas or what? i figure its probly not a good idea to use water....

The safest way to clean it is to use a non-flammable brake cleaner like what advace auto parts sells or the next best solvent would be either diesel fuel or kerosene. Worst case, use gasoline but be very careful and keep away from all sparks and flames while cleaning. If possible, blow dry afterwards before reinstalling. If no compressed air is available, allow the ic to sit upside down for a couple of hours so solvent can drain and flammable vapors can dissipate.

 

[evogst97]

Well I got to look at the turbo and there is NO SHAFTPLAY. None in and out or side to side. I did notice that the gasket for the turbo to exhaust manifold looked like it had been blown on the sides or something. Also I when I took the radiator hose off I found oil in the coolant. I wanted to add that I torqued down to 80 0r 85 pounds on the Mitsu MLS Head Gasket using ARP lube (should I torque down more?). Also I almost have the intercooler off. Having trouble reaching one bolt but will get it off soon. I found no oil in the lower intercooler piping or the jpipe. I also wanted to talk about my oil return line and see if that could be a problem. I have quite a few pics I took and will put them up as soon as I figure out how to and resize them to fit better.

 

[evogst97]

UPDATE: Sorry its taking so long I have to get on the computer that has the pictures on it. Ill have them up by tonight. Also I got the intercooler off. Barely any oil in it at all. Also basically none in the upper intercooling piping up to the throttle body.

 

[evogst97]

Well I guess I can only upload one pic at a time and then I have to take it off so what I'm gonna do is find a place online to host the pics then put a link to it.

 

[evogst97]

pics:

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[silver bullit]

Just cause the turbo has no shaft play does not mean that the oil and coolant seals in the turbo are not shot. As far as the oil leak tighten it up, if it wont use some thread locker, and/or retap the bolt holes and clean them out. Since oil was in the coolant system you need to flush it to get all the oil out and start with fresh coolant to see if the porblem was fixed. Oh and the black on the turbo exhaust housing is normal cause its carbon thats being removed from the engine after it fires fuel/air, but it should not have an oily feel to it or smell like oil. It may seem a lil oil but it is ###### gas and the smeel of that with confirm its gas but does not rule out the oil. So do a compression test. When you took the head off did you check with a feeler gauge to see if the head was warped, head suface was deeply scratched, etc?

 

[evogst97]

Just cause the turbo has no shaft play does not mean that the oil and coolant seals in the turbo are not shot. As far as the oil leak tighten it up, if it wont use some thread locker, and/or retap the bolt holes and clean them out. Since oil was in the coolant system you need to flush it to get all the oil out and start with fresh coolant to see if the porblem was fixed. Oh and the black on the turbo exhaust housing is normal cause its carbon thats being removed from the engine after it fires fuel/air, but it should not have an oily feel to it or smell like oil. It may seem a lil oil but it is ###### gas and the smeel of that with confirm its gas but does not rule out the oil. So do a compression test. When you took the head off did you check with a feeler gauge to see if the head was warped, head suface was deeply scratched, etc?

Head is good. There was no warpage, etc. I did a flush when i did the head job. The compression was like 175 on all of them.
So how do I know if my turbo seals are blown or not?

 

[jumpfroggy]

The smoke and rough idle remind me of a headgasket problem. I know you checked compression, but was anything done between then and now? Maybe something got torqued wrong and is starting to leak...

Also, the loping idle reminds me of an intake leak. BLT, maybe?

Last, the fading lights reminds me of an alternator circuit gone bad. Electrics should be fine at most RPM's, not pulse at lower and get bright at higher. If that happens, I think the rectifier circuit is screwed. So alternator will work, just not as well at low-rpms. Could also affect rough start with lower voltage? Don't know.

 

[tom04841]

Did you ever think that maybe when the headwork was done, that the machine shop could have nicked the shaft of the valve. If it is not completely smooth, it will ruin a valve seal very quickly.

I am dealing with the same smoking issue. Checked everything. I have narrowed it down to the valve seals.....granted they are original from 91.

Just my .02!

 

[evogst97]

The smoke and rough idle remind me of a headgasket problem. I know you checked compression, but was anything done between then and now? Maybe something got torqued wrong and is starting to leak...

Also, the loping idle reminds me of an intake leak. BLT, maybe?

Last, the fading lights reminds me of an alternator circuit gone bad. Electrics should be fine at most RPM's, not pulse at lower and get bright at higher. If that happens, I think the rectifier circuit is screwed. So alternator will work, just not as well at low-rpms. Could also affect rough start with lower voltage? Don't know.

I'll do a search on what BLT is. Alternator fuses are good but I'll see if I see anything in the wiring. As for the torquing of the head we did a compression test about a week ago and It was the same.

Did you ever think that maybe when the headwork was done, that the machine shop could have nicked the shaft of the valve. If it is not completely smooth, it will ruin a valve seal very quickly.





Also how do I know if the turbo seals are blown or not?

I am dealing with the same smoking issue. Checked everything. I have narrowed it down to the valve seals.....granted they are original from 91.

Just my .02!

Well I think the seals would be good but I guess that's a possibility. Wouldn't that be shown with low compression though??