Variable Differential

[94Jettameowpsst]

As I stated in the other topic "Probably a dumb question", was wondering if you could put the adjustable differential out of an Evo into a 1g talon. Comments are appreciated Btw, as for the old post, it wasnt my intention to pi** anyone off by "bumping" my topic, sorry.

 

[MNGSX]

The transmissions are way too different... I asked someone about the EVO VIII triple synch 1-2.. The gear diameters are too different to even machine DSM gear sides to use them.

A quaife center would perform better and the US model of the EVO VIII does'nt have that differential any way.

The quaiffe sends power to the most traction via gears with no clutches etc. It probably reacts faster too.

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

what i meant was, would it be possible to instead of the 80/20 split of power now, to put the adjustable capability into a talon...like in the RM or RS model of the evo 8 or the sti thats by the ebrake handle. Unless you explained but i just didnt understand.

 

[MNGSX]

what i meant was, would it be possible to instead of the 80/20 split of power now, to put the adjustable capability into a talon...like in the RM or RS model of the evo 8 or the sti thats by the ebrake handle. Unless you explained but i just didnt understand.

A quaife center makes all that uneccessary and blows it away.

Read
http://www.quaifeamerica.com/differentials/diffs.htm

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

Im aware of a quaiffe, but the 80/20 split isnt between the left and right wheels, its between the front and back....as in the front pulls more than the back. I was going to just settle for a quaiffe but was just wondering if you could put the Electronic center diff from the evo into the talon, so instead of an 80/20 split in power between the front and back wheels, you could adjust it to like 90/10-10/90? maybe you awnsered me and im just not understanding how the diff works in a talon but idk....just a thought

 

[MNGSX]

The electronic center diff wont fit.

If it sends tq to the wheel with traction in a axle diff... Hmm what would it do in the center... maybe the same thing...send more tq to the end of the car with traction ?

http://www.wincom.net/trog/tech_quaife.html

 

[totalburnout]

Im aware of a quaiffe, but the 80/20 split isnt between the left and right wheels, its between the front and back....as in the front pulls more than the back. I was going to just settle for a quaiffe but was just wondering if you could put the Electronic center diff from the evo into the talon, so instead of an 80/20 split in power between the front and back wheels, you could adjust it to like 90/10-10/90? maybe you awnsered me and im just not understanding how the diff works in a talon but idk....just a thought

UH
80/20 split?


In awd eclipse's/talon's i believe the split is 50/50

 

[MNGSX]

Its like 60/40 or something.... It's not a true 50/50 nor 80/20.

 

[totalburnout]

Its like 60/40 or something.... It's not a true 50/50 nor 80/20.

I believed that as well but according to the information posted here by mods and highly respected people, its a 50/50 split.

 

[MNGSX]

It's got to do with the driveline drag between the front and rear drive train.. The front has less friction so it puts more tq to the wheels.. It is 50/50 at the center differential.. No way is it 50/50 where the rubber meets the road.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32901&page=1&pp=25&highlight=Torque+Split

Read post 12 where the manual talks about how the center diff always transmits more tq to the lighter load side.... The front has a lighter load by virture of less friction and component mass.

The manual also says the diff splits 50/50.... All spider gear diffs do this... But 50% of what... since their are more parasitc losses on the rear half of the system.

55/45 52/48 depends on the situation and actual drag... It is'nt a 50/50 final drive to the ground split... Not possible even with a 50/50 center differential which it has.

Given say 200 ft lbs tq into the center diff and equal Tq on both sides of the diff yes 100ft/lbs is on one side gear and 100ft/lbs is on the other... But to do this means that due to efficiency differences the front end puts a higher % of its 100ft/lbs into its tires than the rear.

 

[Defiant]

What kind of fairy tale is this supposed to be?

DSMs are 50/50 until something slips. The driveline doesn't care about "parasitic losses" or "driveline drag" or any such hooey. The viscous couplers only care about the relative speed between the inside plates and the ones attached to the outer hub. When they get far enough apart, the goo goes solid and the coupler hooks up just about solid. From that post 12:
"Half of the drive power distributed by the center differential is transmitted through the front differential to the front drive shaft.
The other half of the drive power distributed by the center differential is transmitted throught the transfer, the propeller shaft and the rear differential to the rear drive shaft."

"Half" means "half", not three-quarters, nor two-fifths, nor one-third. Half.

There is no flexibility nor uneven split in the DSM scheme- which is why different-sized tires front-to-rear will burn up the VC.

God, I thought we killed this juggernaut of imagination last year.

50/50​

 

[Defiant]

As I stated in the other topic "Probably a dumb question", was wondering if you could put the adjustable differential out of an Evo into a 1g talon. Comments are appreciated Btw, as for the old post, it wasnt my intention to pi** anyone off by "bumping" my topic, sorry.

Back to your question, no, you couldn't. You'd have to switch over to the complete Evo scheme.

Oh, did you realize DSMs are split 50/50 front-to rear?

 

[MNGSX]

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An engineer went over the stealth tech manuals description and said the math was wrong.. I'll dig but I have seen the same thing on engineering forums about the DSM.

It is a 50/50 split coming out the differential... True.
However. Look at the chart. Follow the front and rear diff side gears. The rear seems to have more heavy parts to turn...

The front side gear spins the front shaft which directly drives the front dif case. On the other side the rear side gear goes thru the center shaft, two bevel gears, a prop shaft with multiple u-joints and then finaly the rear pinion...

At final drive it just cant be exactly 50/50.. Even with a CF driveshaft.

It's almost 50/50 but not quite.. It's splitting hairs and not worth arguing over.


Either way run the quaife because its only $1500, better and much less $ and work than an EVO VIII swap given the trans is facing the wrong way and has alot of TSB repairs out on it now..

 

[PSI TSI]

So in reality a front drive doesnt have 50/50 from side to side because of the extra length of the half shaft.

 

[MNGSX]

That is soo different that is like 49.9999999999999/50.000000000001 % or something.

That is like 1-2ft of shaft... Not two bevel gears, a few more u-joints, and many feet of driveshaft.

Next you are going to tell me that 17" forged wheels on one end and triple dipped chrome dubs with spinners take the same energy to turn.

 

[marcmsj]

does anybody know the torque split on dsm's?

is it 40-60?

:laugh:

 

[Defiant]

An engineer went over the stealth tech manuals description and said the math was wrong.. I'll dig but I have seen the same thing on engineering forums about the DSM.

Ah! Engineers! Those guys should stick to driving trains.

It's almost 50/50 but not quite.. It's splitting hairs and not worth arguing over.

I agree there. After all, I know you're quite far from a pinhead (what, 2500 miles from my house?). I grasp what you and your overalls-wearing pals are saying, but I think until a tire's rpm changes by slipping (or locking under braking), the speeds between front and rear in the cookie-munching, beer-swilling "real" world will be "the same". It seems to me that the real load of the car's mass versus the difference in mass of the drivelines being driven will make those differing loads negligible.

No, it's not worth arguing over. I'll only add on that the intended split for DSMs is 50/50, and that might wander a bit. So far as I've been able to find, the DSMs have been the only AWD cars to have a 50/50 scheme, aren't they?

If you can find that link, I'd be curious to read through it. All that "angular velocity" and "delta forces" stuff helps me to snooze.

God, it's a relief to discuss things with someone who has brains.

 

[Defiant]

does anybody know the torque split on dsm's?

is it 40-60?

:laugh:

GAAAAA

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AAAAAA

 

[ericbev]

GAAAAA

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AAAAAA

muhhahahahahaha Poor moderators... I feel your pain....You shoulda made that 50/50 like size 80000 with neon lights around it..that mighta done it..