trying to convert to e85

[AlmightyBoost]

i have a translator pro with a gm map sensor, my question is, once i get my wideband and install the translator pro , are there any procedures that i have to go through before running the e85 fuel such as running higher fuel pressure, or a different heat range of plug, is it safe to just pour in the e85 and start tuning from there? i am running the ngk bpr7es on a walbro 255lph pump. also is the e85 worth the switch from 93 octane gas? im looking for 460whp

 

[jrohner]

+1. To me, 550lbs/min for 500 hp seems like a conservative tune on E85. A minute on my cellphone calculator last night I figured I'd be flowing 3000cc's of fuel (/4=750cc, same as my injectors) at 40 lbs/min of air (the max I've ever seen with my car) with an AFR of 8:1, I shoot for 8.5:1 however. If I get much more power, it looks like I'll probably want to go with bigger injectors; I have some 950's but I borrowed them to my cousin for the time being. I'll be finding out soon if my injectors can handle any more since I really hope to have at least 20-30 more hp after my work on it is done later today.

On a side note, when pulling things apart today I did notice some of that black rubbery looking goo on my injectors that some people have been having issues with mostly when running E85. Mine are RC's, and I saw it on my cousins PTE's also. I wonder if any of it is from the stock rubber gas line going from the filter to the rail? I know it's not the injector seals since they look perfect; some believe it's something in the ethanol itself, but I'm holding off on going along with that until I see some proof of that.

 

[TRBOBLU]

+1. To me, 550lbs/min for 500 hp seems like a conservative tune on E85. A minute on my cellphone calculator last night I figured I'd be flowing 3000cc's of fuel (/4=750cc, same as my injectors) at 40 lbs/min of air (the max I've ever seen with my car) with an AFR of 8:1, I shoot for 8.5:1 however. If I get much more power, it looks like I'll probably want to go with bigger injectors; I have some 950's but I borrowed them to my cousin for the time being. I'll be finding out soon if my injectors can handle any more since I really hope to have at least 20-30 more hp after my work on it is done later today.

On a side note, when pulling things apart today I did notice some of that black rubbery looking goo on my injectors that some people have been having issues with mostly when running E85. Mine are RC's, and I saw it on my cousins PTE's also. I wonder if any of it is from the stock rubber gas line going from the filter to the rail? I know it's not the injector seals since they look perfect; some believe it's something in the ethanol itself, but I'm holding off on going along with that until I see some proof of that.

Its in the ethanol itself. Dont bother buying new lines/bluemax injectors/seals/ or anything for that matter. A gentleman on the Link forums has proved the stuff is present in the fuel itself. Running a tank of 93 through the car or just dipping the ends of the injectors in gasoline will get rid of all traces of it.

 

[hairybeanbag]

By the time he gets the fuel and gets back, he's back down to nearly 1/2 a tank. Nice!

Well he's got an old 55 gallon VP drum, so it's worth getting 25-30 gallons at a time with out needing a forklift to get the drum out of the truck.

 

[JayRolla]

Go for the E85, I've been running it for about 3 years in my DSM's (and since 2001 in my racecar which was a carbureted V8), and I would never want to go back to gas. If you run a wideband to your ECU so you can lean out the closed loop, you shouldn't get much different fuel mileage vs gas either. Mine ranges averages 0-2 MPG less than I got on gas (a little worse mileage than that in the cold snowy winter though which you don't deal with in Florida anyways), and it's currently 60c cheaper than regular 87 here. It keeps the engine clean, and keeps the spark plugs looking like new. No E85 won't eat your pistons or anything else. It does supposedly take it's toll on some type of rubbers though.




Obviously, if I've done 400 on 750's, I know that for 35% more power it wouldn't take 100% larger injectors. He said he was looking for about 460hp, and 880's should be just fine for that, so I don't see how since I don't have 550hp I don't have any knowledge to give this guy. I'm not the one trying to waste his money on massive injectors he doesn't need right now; maybe he'll need them in the future, but that wasn't his question. He was asking if what he has will work fine for now. I say, the injectors -- yeah, the MAFT as the only tuning solution -- it will run but it's not the best.

JayRolla, I don't think IDC's according to a logger mean crap, especially the 74% IDC you brought up, as a stock 1G DSM can break that. When people get to over 120-130% IDC (and run it daily), it proves that that number doesn't mean anything. Also your last post, the 2nd part contradicts the 1st part big time -- 1st you say I'm wrong and that his 880's and MAFT will be fine, and then you say the 880's are too small. I ran an AFC for a year or two, and I'll never go back to one; the MAFT Pro looks pretty sweet, but not as the only tuning gadget. Yes 880's on E85 will be like 600's on gas; that's about where I would set the injector size in an EPROM tune, it's just that you don't have to run as overly rich on E85 like you have to on pump gas that helps them make a lot more power than 600's would get you on gas.

Plus, the timing table is quite important, and he has no way to really control it, leaving quite a bit of performance (and possibly reliability) on the table. I think his money would be better spent on a better tuning solution than putting in some huge injectors that aren't going to gain him anything where he's at currently. In a later post he mentioned wanting 650 hp, but by that time he will need both bigger injectors and a real tuning solution, and probably many more things.

mitsuman3000, I hope you get some reputation points for your extremely helpful post.

Let me retype what I was trying to say.

You said he would hit fuel cut on those injectors without eprom. I said he would be ok with his setup and not hit fuelcut.

The when I say the 880's wont work is because they may run out when he really starts pushing the turbo. I dont look at what "HP" someone wants to make. I look at the turbo he is running and what he should have to support it, that way he dont have to upgrade twice. And I think that turbo he is running may overrun those injectors. I also state he could run lower boost levels and get away with them untill he needs to upgrade.

Now giving someone info like 120-130% IDC's are ok to run is not a good idea. Its a proven fact that running injectors at those IDC's can cause the injector to spray improperly not allowing the fuel to atomize correctly. Not to mention it kills injectors fast. I would say you are the first I have ever say its ok to run injectors at that IDC.

 

[jrohner]

I wasn't recommending that 130% IDC is good. I meant if you're logging 80% you're probably not really at a true 80%. I mean, how could you really ever get over 100% IDC? What I was getting at is basically what the genius ECU hackers on EvolutionM where talking about, I remember the one saying the real 80% IDC is closer to the logged IDC of 100%, not 80% on the logger. It varies some car to car though, just like most anything else does. I have no idea myself what makes the logged IDC off, if it just has something to do with latency (deadtime) or what it could be, but it's proven that it's off.

The injectors in my 2g at 400hp where in my 1g talon for a while, and that was showing somewhere around 80%+ IDC's (it's been a couple years so I don't remember exact numbers), and that car is stock except for the fuel pump & E85, and running 20psi.

 

[JayRolla]

I wasn't recommending that 130% IDC is good. I meant if you're logging 80% you're probably not really at a true 80%. I mean, how could you really ever get over 100% IDC? What I was getting at is basically what the genius ECU hackers on EvolutionM where talking about, I remember the one saying the real 80% IDC is closer to the logged IDC of 100%, not 80% on the logger. It varies some car to car though, just like most anything else does. I have no idea myself what makes the logged IDC off, if it just has something to do with latency (deadtime) or what it could be, but it's proven that it's off.

The injectors in my 2g at 400hp where in my 1g talon for a while, and that was showing somewhere around 80%+ IDC's (it's been a couple years so I don't remember exact numbers), and that car is stock except for the fuel pump & E85, and running 20psi.

Still its the only IDC number we can actually see so why not be safe and go by that number. Unless they know exactly how much its off. When I was on pump and my injectors hit 100% IDC knock would show up. I always thought it was due to the injector not atomizing the fuel correclty which will cause lots of knock.

 

[Superman]

I wish I could use E85 on my street car, but there are very few e85 stations in my area. I also notice more drag cars are running E85.

 

[JayRolla]

I wish I could use E85 on my street car, but there are very few e85 stations in my area. I also notice more drag cars are running E85.

Dont let a few gas stations stop you. We only had three when I converted and I was all worried, but it was no problem. Its 100% worth any extra driving.

E85(e90) is starting to take over the racing scene. People have to pay $10-$14 for race gas or get same or better results with a fuel that cost under $4. Banks Diesel has a gasoline twin charged motor that was putting out 600hp. He took the same motor and sells it as an e85 crate motor and it makes 1000hp. Same exact motor with just more turbo.

 

[Superman]

Thanks for the advice. WOW 1000 HP on E85; that is amazing.

 

[JayRolla]

Thanks for the advice. WOW 1000 HP on E85; that is amazing.

Shouldnt be that amazing, but more of expected with such a good fuel.

 

[habitatguy187]

So has anyone tried putting seafoam in the gas tank to get rid of the black gunk that builds up on the injectors?

 

[measy90tsi]

i dont wanna thread jack or anything but i see it's alot of knowledge in this room dealing with e85. so im about to switch to e85 and just wondering what afr should i tune for at cruising and wot?

 

[Hop]

i dont wanna thread jack or anything but i see it's alot of knowledge in this room dealing with e85. so im about to switch to e85 and just wondering what afr should i tune for at cruising and wot?

I'm sure this info is on here somewhere already. With a gas calibrated WBO2 use 14.7 at cruise & 11.5 to 12.0 @ WOT. I didn't see much of a gain if any pushing it as lean as 12.5.

I've got 1600cc and would like to bring the IDC down a bit. It might be a voltage to the pump issue. There's no way my Magnafuel 4303 isn't capable of flowing enough fuel.