Thinking about getting an eagle...

[Icon7zero]

Hey guys, new here so sorry if im doing anything wrong...

I just got a great oppurtunity to buy a 1991 talon, 2.0 dohc N/T
It already has rims and exhuast. This would be a great upgrade from my 99 cavy (auto)....

Anyways if i get this car i dont want to leave it the way it is, i crave the need for speed, what is going to be the fastest and easiest way to gain more horsepower? A turbo/supercharger kit would be awesome. You guys have ideas on a great kit? perhaps not one of the very exspensive ones though.

Thanks a lot I hope you guys can help.

 

[4g63GSX]

buy a turbo model

 

[GSGoinFast]

buy a turbo model

ya that sounded like one of the options he stated :thumbdown

a turbo kit would be the best way to bolt on power.

 

[dr1665]

Stick around here (and check out 2GNT.com - the 4g63 forum in particular) and learn as much as you can about adding the turbo components from the TSi to the ESi/DL. You could do that for cheaper than any kit, I would imagine, and who makes a kit for the 4g63 anyway? I agree that, although a much older car, a DSM is much better than a Cavalier... especially an automatic one. You won't be able to run as much boost on the NT version of the engine as you would on the factory turbocharged models, but you will definitely see a decent gain. If you can afford it, you might look into trying to find a good TSi or GST if you really want to be turbo now, but starting with the NT platform will give you many an opportunity to learn a few things about general maintenance and tuning (if you don't already know what you need).

Welcome to the brotherhood of the Talon!

 

[DevilSperm]

u wiydk wait until you can affora turbno! you will regret the n/ty afete a few moths

 

[Dudeman]

u wiydk wait until you can affora turbno! you will regret the n/ty afete a few moths

Been partying tonight? :laugh:

 

[GSGoinFast]

Been partying tonight? :laugh:

haha exactly what i was thinking.

he said he came accross a great oportunity on a talon, so im assuming that he cant afford a turbo.

 

[Catbox_95]

What exactly is this "great deal" on the Talon you speak of? Knowing the price may help influence the advice we give.

 

[DevilSperm]

Been partying tonight? :laugh:

yeah sorry bout that

 

[DevilSperm]

and holy shit you are from Grand Island...you want 1g's buddy go here turbo4g63.com

 

[Daem0n]

I think getting a 2.0 N/T is a good transition from the Cavalier. And while it's entirely possible to have some serious power from the engine alone, be prepared to break the bank more than once. You should look into getting a TSi/awd- GS-T/GSX once you're ready for tons of cheaper power.

 

[SnoopySLR]

your going to be much happier with a turbo. I wouldn't trade mine for anything now, but thats about $9000 into the engine and trans later...

 

[speedy13]

If yu wanna go really fast,then buy a turbo model,if you want a car to have fun with then get it, you could alway boost later.But as soon as yyou ride in a turbo dsm,their is no comparison. just my .02

 

[Icon7zero]

Yea i guess some more info would help.

Like i said its a 91 n/t, the car itself has 90k miles on it, but it had its engine replaced with a 4g63 that has 40k on it. It has aftermarket racing rims, and aftermarket exhaust. perfect condition on the outside and inside, and it has a sunroof. the price on it right now is 3000.

does that sound like a good deal to you guys?

If i bought this car i would save about 2 grand, i could use this money to buy a 4g63 turbo engine, would that be a good idea?

 

[DevilSperm]

no..this will sound like a plug but you need to look into these two cars http://turbo4g63.com/ and http://turbo4g63.com/for_sale.htm one is already modded and the other is a 6/4 combo...you will regret buying a non turbo..i assure you of that

 

[Dudeman]

Deffinately don't get a 1gnt, if it were a 2gnt it would be somewhat acceptable, but you don't want a slow first gen. 1g GSXs are gettin on the cheap side so there is no reason not to get one.

And check out this Tech Article http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60008 Something to think about after you get a GSX.

 

[Icon7zero]

I am finding 4g63 turbo enigines on ebay for between 1500 and 2500. Would it be hard to swap out the engine in this talon with a turbo engine i could buy on ebay?

 

[DevilSperm]

not hard but you will spend more $$ youll need the ecu as well as the motor

 

[ryanman]

Theonly good deal on a n/t 1G is FREE, otherwise just buy a turbo model and not worry about swapping all the necessary crap over. I bet your cavalier is faster then a 1g n/t.

 

[DevilSperm]

let me ask you this..what is keeping you from buying a turbo? obviously something is if you are still considering the n/t...how old are you? parents wont let you get a turbo? ive owned a 1g n/t before..trust me you dont want to go that way..

 

[Icon7zero]

Nothing is keeping me from buying a turbo. If i find a turbo in great condition for a good price that is located close to me then i will consider it. The thing about this n/t is that it is completely flawlass throughout and is about a 20 minute drive from me. Plus, my stepdad is the one selling it so he is giving me a great deal and i kno i can trust him. So if i could buy a turbo engine from ebay, plus the ecu, and swap it out, i would rather do that. Plus i personally know the mechanic who has been working on this car since the day it was made, he knows the car like the back of his hand, and would be excellent help in an engine swap. These are the only reasons that i want to get this car.

Now as far as my cavalier being faster than it...no way. My cavy is a 3-speed auto with 115 horespower. This is a 5-speed manual with 135 horsepower, in other words my cavy cant even throw a stick at it.

I kno all you guys are saying dont get a n/t, and i believe you, which is why i asked if an engine swap would work because i kno i wont like having a non turbo, im just thinking ahead.

btw, thx for all the feedback guys, its helping a lot

 

[DevilSperm]

Nothing is keeping me from buying a turbo. If i find a turbo in great condition for a good price that is located close to me then i will consider it. The thing about this n/t is that it is completely flawlass throughout and is about a 20 minute drive from me. Plus, my stepdad is the one selling it so he is giving me a great deal and i kno i can trust him. So if i could buy a turbo engine from ebay, plus the ecu, and swap it out, i would rather do that. Plus i personally know the mechanic who has been working on this car since the day it was made, he knows the car like the back of his hand, and would be excellent help in an engine swap. These are the only reasons that i want to get this car.

Now as far as my cavalier being faster than it...no way. My cavy is a 3-speed auto with 115 horespower. This is a 5-speed manual with 135 horsepower, in other words my cavy cant even throw a stick at it.

I kno all you guys are saying dont get a n/t, and i believe you, which is why i asked if an engine swap would work because i kno i wont like having a non turbo, im just thinking ahead.

btw, thx for all the feedback guys, its helping a lot

do what you must...im about an hour from you so if you run into problems let me know

 

[cuttheduck]

Just boost your cavy then. You can get turbo 2g's for $4***.
Spending 3 grand on a n/t 1g makes no sense.

Heres some links on the swap.
http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48231


Here some of the necesary parts from mavisky's article

Engine accessories: First we'll assume that you were lucky enough to find a complete longblock 6 bolt through either a fellow dsmer, performance shop, or scrapyard. Now the list of things you will want to get ahold of that pertain to the engine.

1. complete turbo long block (blcok and head including internals and bolted attachments such as oil pump and such). - already been covered

2. mass air sensor - the turbo mass air sensor has a 7th wire coming out of it as opposed to the nt's 6 wires.

3. fuel pressure solenoid - not really needed, but can be setup just the same as stock

4. turbo intake manifold and throttle body - the turbo intake manifold is already tapped with the vacuum line nipple for the bov, also it has the correct studs in it to use the turbo throttle body and elbow.

5. turbo exhaust manifold - pretty self explanatory hopefully, although make sure its at least for a 14b and not the automatic's 13g with the smaller opening.

6. turbo and related cooling and oil lines - now here is one that's an option. you can either go with a trusty 14b for awhile and stock lines or step up to the plate with a combination of any turbo/ oil feed line.

7. intercooler (side mount or front mount) - you will need!

8. intercooler piping-i reccomend starting with a sidemount and stock piping for most people to keep the initial cost down.

9. turbo fuel pump - this is an absolute must have, the nt fuel pump has no business handling boost.

10. BOV - stick with the stocker for now, its a great design and its cheap and adaptable.

11. turbo injectors - get the 450cc's from a 5 speed.

12. injector resistor pack - little gray case on the firewall, 5 wires coming out of it. you need this badly, we'll discuss hooking it up later on.

13. 1g fwd downpipe - you will have to ditch the stock pre-cat setup. if you can't make your own buschur sells a well priced 2.5" pressbent that hardly necks down at all for a good price.

14. wastegate solenoid and mbc - you will want the stock solenoid (the one you do the free mod to) as some people experience a rather annoying check engine light without it. get this even if you are getting an mbc just in case.

15. knock sensor - check the condition of the old one you got, if all the goo is running out of it, expect high counts of knock and prepare yourself to replace it.

16. o2 sensor - the wiring for the o2 sensor is longer in order to reach across the manifold and down to the o2 housing.

17. thermostat upper and lower housings - the thermostat housing has the extra lines built into it for the cooling of the turbo and oil filter.

18. coolant cross pipe - this also has a coolant line for the turbo built into it.

19. oil filter cooler - now this is going to be a needed item although make sure and match it up to numbers 17 & 18 so that they're all the same year.

Transmission:
Well now that we have your engine hopefully all accounted for and in order we need to move on to putting that power to the ground. There are a few different methods here and you are free to choose whichever you like.

1. retaining the 1g nt tranny - the 1g nt tranny can be retained in this fiasco in its exact form. you simply need to also utilize the 1g nt clutch and flywheel. 1g nt 4g63's came in 6 bolt and 7 bolt designs the same as the turbo cars did. since you hopefully chose a 6 bolt turbo engine having a 92 and up car can cause some problems with this. assuming your flywheels match up though, prepare to do some grinding. the turbo crankshaft has a locating pin on the end of it for the turbo flywheel, well as i'm sure you've noticed by now the nt flywheel doesn't have a little alignment hole for this. no big deal, simply grind the nubbin smooth (and make sure it is completely smooth since its the flywheel's mating surface to the crank and you wouldn't want a wobble there). i personally started by using a hard cutting disk on my dremel and then using a grinding stone to finish the job off. you will want to upgrade the stock nt clutch as it is totally uncapable of withstanding anywhere near 200hp. mine lasted a month of careful driving i believe. as far as buying nt clutches go, the choices are out there, but i personally don't have alot of experience with most of them (and am shopping for a replacement of the current one i have). most upgraded clutches should be able to contain the power available from a 14b but above that is apparently yet uncharted territory.

2. using a gst transmission - the gst transmission is a pretty simple install, although it can have its bugs. you'll need to make sure you have the flywheel, clutch, transmission, and rear aluminum cover from all the same year. of course you have to buy all of this so alot of people don't go this route. one of the nice things though is that alot of the mods companies like tre, bmtranny, and shepherd sell will work in this transmission as opposed to the nt in which they won't. the other nice thing is that this transmission has been proven to work at high power levels (although i don't see why the nt tranny would suddenly fail).

ECU and wiring harness: now we're into the most complex part of this all. the ecu/ wiring harness. there are again two ways of pulling this off, one cheap and labor intensive the other slightly more expensive but easier.

1. retaining the nt harness - the nt harness can be completely retained and only needs the addition of some wiring to become the equivalent of the turbo wiring harness.
what you'll need to wire in:

7th wire from mas - the 7th wire from the mas needs to be run back to pin number 6

knock sensor - one wire can be grounded to the engine bay somehow, the other white wire needs to be run back to pin number 9 on the ecu.

wastegate solenoid - one wire here will be grounded, the other returns to the ecu at pin number 105

injector resistance pack - this is the most dificult. i'll let the following pictures describe it rather than trying to explain it in text. if you have any questions just ask.

thanks to don over at aialmatrix for getting mine to run and making this great diagram.

 

[cuttheduck]

Heres a n/t to turbo from vfaq.com

Look at the size of that parts list
I know we're on a DSM board but I wouldn't consider a n/t 1g dsm better then a 99 cavy. Reliability also being an issue. Dont do it!

Here's the parts list.

1. exhaust manifold
2. 14b turbo
3. 02 sensor housing (mine was ported)
4. the turbo 02 sensor (it has a longer wire, to reach around the turbo, you don't need it if your wire already will reach, or if you rewire it yourself)
5. turbo fpr to match the 450cc injectors
6. 450cc turbo fuel injectors
7. resistor pack for 450cc injectors
8. m/t federal turbo ecu for the year range of your car(1990 is different from the 91-94 cars)
9. wastegate actuator
10. aftermarket boost gauge
11. new fuel injector o-rings
12. new exhaust gaskets
13. your stock n/t intake tube (cut it to make an upper i/c pipe)
14. 2 1/2" to 1 7/8" exhaust adapter
15. 90 degree bend 2" id coolant hose
16. vaccume check valve for the purge canister line
17. UIC hard pipe and bov
18. soft IC pipe from IC to UIC hardpipe
19. stock turbo intake accordion tube w/ bov hose
20. turbo MAF and pigtail for wiring harness
21. spool of 16ga wire (a bright color, so it's easier to see in dark spots)
22. wire loom, solder, electrical tape
23. fuel pressure solenoid and pigtail
24. knock sensor
25. stock sidemount intercooler
26. lower i/c pipe and hose w/ gasket
27. turbo aircan (optional)
28. turbo downpipe
29. turbo car oil pan
30. oil drainback tube
31. 5 feet of 3/8" coolant hose
32. turbo oil feed line w/ banjo bolts
33. turbo coolant lines(or make some with 1/4" steel pipe fittings)
34. a tube of high temp silicone sealer
35. 3 extra (harness side) ecu pins
36. bolts for the turbo-to-exhaust manifold connection and that one nut (I used normal hardware store stuff, but you might want to get the correct bolts from the dealer)
37. copper gaskets for the lines
38. a whole pile of various vaccume tube, connectors, hose clamps, and an assortment of bolts and nuts(you can never have too much of this stuff, just incase)
39. a parts runner car
40. change your coolant and put in some Redline Water Wetter too
41. oil filter
42. 6 quarts of mobil 1 (keep a spare one in case of leaks)
43. A 5 gallon gas can full of 93 octane gas, and a place to get rid of the 87 that's in your tank right now.
44. reset your plug gap to the setting for turbo engines
45. set the ignition timing back to stock
46. EGT gauge (get a westach or greddy, automoter and vdo don't work as fast).
47. Act 2600 clutch w/ street disc

 

[Icon7zero]

Thx for the links are part lists guys.

I have considered boosting my cavy, but just the fact that its a 3-speed auto (a 3-SPEED!) made me decide not to do it. As far as the talon being reliable, i kno that it is. Even though we are on a dsm board, i can honestly say that i would love to have a cavi z24 5-speed, and then boost that. I looked for one for a while but found nothing that suited my needs.

Devilsperm, i've been looking at the eclipse you are selling, all the mods and so on looks excellent and its obvious that it is a damn fast car, only 2 things though, kinda high mileage (but you did a rebuild so not a problem?), and from the pics the outside kinda looked like crap, as far as the paint goes. Other than that, the eclipse looks bangin dude, nice work.

Im gunna try and go with every1's advice here and keep on the lookout for a turbo model for sale. I'm not in any hurry as far as getting a new car, so im not gunna jump all over this talon just because i think its a good deal. Thats how i got stuck with the car i have now. i was 16 and ignorant so i was like "ooh ooh black with tinted windows!" and realized later i was driving one slow ass car.

Thx for all the advice guys, anything else you think you should tell me go ahead, as you might have noticed i dont kno much about DSMs.