The ultimate fix to creep issues on the EVO 16g still using internal gate

[1993TalonTsiAWD]

It starts out when I first bought the turbo. Before it was installed I had it ported. Good thing I did, because when I had it on the dyno the first time it creeped to around 18-20, this was back when it was on the stock smic, which was a no no. So since I had payed the first time for the porting, ams ported it again. Helped a bit, but still creeped, so they put a 2.5in tubular O2 on it and that fix it for about a month to three months. I then decided to add a fmic. I picked a SBR steet kit. Had tons of issues with that, but thats another story. After it was installed it once again had creep issues to around 21psi+. So they decided to do somthing new. Cut out the section between the waste gate and actual exhaust section, like a S cover. It now holds 18psi all day with no issues at all. I realise it may take away from some of the potential of the turbo, but it doesn't creep and it works very well. It's just not that commen on a 16g. Anyway thats about the best way to control creep short of dumping or going external. I thank ams for standing behind there work, because after the intial porting at the very begining all the other work they did was free. So if your are having creep isues I recommend this mod. It's well woth it. Now if only I can run a bit more boost, thats my next step.

Derek

 

[chicagoavenger]

It's weird some people have it some don't. When I put on my 3" downpipe and catback with the stock O2 and no testpipe/cat I had no creep. I put on a tubular O2 just to complete the system and still run fine. I wonder why that is

 

[kottyking]

I just port the hell out of the hole where the air enters the wastegate passage.

 

[NewB2dsm]

External wastegate

/thread

Thats what im doing.

 

[siceclipse]

Chadillac made a very nice tech artical on how to cure creep with this turbo. Most vendors port the step of the turbo out just to increase spool time rather than flow of the exhaust gases. What this does is give a streight shot down to the exhaust wheel and aid with creeping. Companies like Forced Performance have dedicated techs and workers who have all owned DSM's and know the whoas of creep and blah blah blah <---Quoted from employee of FP***, and put their own little secrets in, when porting a turbo for the customers benefit. Taking a little more out over here and smoothing that out over there... Its all in the porting.

Like Oldman has said time and time again:
A properly ported turbo should have no creap issues.

 

[siceclipse]

Back on track:

Im glad to hear you got such terrific service from AMS and that they were able to help you out so much. They are a very client friendly and dedicated Vendor.

 

[1993TalonTsiAWD]

Chadillac made a very nice tech artical on how to cure creep with this turbo. Most vendors port the step of the turbo out just to increase spool time rather than flow of the exhaust gases. What this does is give a streight shot down to the exhaust wheel and aid with creeping. Companies like Forced Performance have dedicated techs and workers who have all owned DSM's and know the whoas of creep and blah blah blah <---Quoted from employee of FP***, and put their own little secrets in, when porting a turbo for the customers benefit. Taking a little more out over here and smoothing that out over there... Its all in the porting.

Like Oldman has said time and time again:
A properly ported turbo should have no creap issues.

I agree 100% with oldman, but my experience was different. That third time they went to port it there was nothing really left to port . So I had a sisuation unlike most, sure porting will cure about 99.99% of creep but my case was that .01% that needed more. This is a last resort type of mod, port it first then if you can't stop the creep and have tryed everything else, and don't want to go external try this mod. Thats the only reason I posted, this was more of a last resort thing.

Derek

 

[siceclipse]

This is the route im taking to eliminate creep.

http://www.lse-performance.com/gallery/DSM-o2-housings

EvoIII O2 costs 130 and you get charged 90-100 to port it out, and thats still not a promise that creep will be gone.

180 for this sounds and LOOKS amazing!

 

[spartan]

that looks like an awesome piece!

 

[Steve93Talon]

That divider is there for a reason. Cutting it out creates turbulence and reduces flow through the turbine side. If you don't want to run an o2 dump, then port the wastegate hole. If that doesn't work, get a 34mm flapper. And when boost falls off at high RPMs, get a stiffer wastegate actuator.

 

[1993TalonTsiAWD]

That divider is there for a reason. Cutting it out creates turbulence and reduces flow through the turbine side. If you don't want to run an o2 dump, then port the wastegate hole. If that doesn't work, get a 34mm flapper. And when boost falls off at high RPMs, get a stiffer wastegate actuator.

As I stated in my first post

"I realise it may take away from some of the potential of the turbo"

but they tried all of the above, I also said this is not a common issue of creep. Also stated before this is not the first way of trying to elimanate the creep, try the others first.

This was just a post showing that it works for my application, and it's somthing you CAN try.

Derek

PS the best way by far is a external wastegate, this is just a cheaper route.

 

[silvah_gsx]

This is the route im taking to eliminate creep.

http://www.lse-performance.com/gallery/DSM-o2-housings

Anyone have experience with these? They look promising, but that's just from pictures.

 

[Ryan95tsiAWD]

Anyone have experience with these? They look promising, but that's just from pictures.

I had bad creep issues with a big16g a few years ago. One of the many things I did was make a custom o2 housing that had a 2.5" dump tube and 3" exhaust hole. This did nothing for my creep.

As nice of a piece as the above link is, I don't see how it will help with creep.

The best way to solve creep issues is correct porting. Cutting the divider out on the TURBO HOUSING side will fix this also, but "its been said" that you will disturb the flow of exhaust by doing this. On the other hand, there are plenty of turbo manufac. that have NO divider between the internal gate and exhaust hole and have no issues.

 

[Eternalsolitude]

I had the same issue with my gsx and a big 16g here a year or so back. I first bought an evo III ported o2 and that didn't do much for me, except slow the creep down a little. Only after I had the turbo re-ported did the problem cease.

 

[ShapeGSX]

I don't have creep issues with my Evo III 16G, and it isn't ported at all. Of course, I run around 20psi all the time. But even when I turned it down a few weeks ago, I didn't have any creep issues.

I don't know for sure, but I think the lack of creep may be partially due to increasing engine flow with my HKS cams. I know it is counter-intuitive. But most people that have creep issues with the Evo III, or actually worry about it, haven't yet upgraded their cams.

 

[1993TalonTsiAWD]

I don't have creep issues with my Evo III 16G, and it isn't ported at all. Of course, I run around 20psi all the time. But even when I turned it down a few weeks ago, I didn't have any creep issues.

I don't know for sure, but I think the lack of creep may be partially due to increasing engine flow with my HKS cams. I know it is counter-intuitive. But most people that have creep issues with the Evo III, or actually worry about it, haven't yet upgraded their cams.

Shape you might be on to somthing there. I have stock cams so that could play a important role. All I did was make this post to show my results and understand it took away some potential power doing this mod, how much..not sure.

Derek