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Tde - Msrc (2/3-2/4)

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asian312

20+ Year Contributor
678
4
Sep 23, 2002
Houston, Texas
Friday, Feb. 3, 2007, 1600 hour, two DSMs set off into the sunset. This weekend Motorsport Ranch in Cresson, TX would play host to the first TDE (The Driver’s Edge) event of the year. From Houston it would be about a four and a half hour to drive to what would be the most frustrating and challenging event thus far. There were no glory sessions that weekend, it was all back to basics.

0600 hour, we wake up to a very chilly and ice instigating 28 degrees. As the bodies begin to rise from the dead, I’m thankful that all the wheel changes and adjustments were taken care of the night before. Once again I was joined by my brother Colin in his Miata, DSM brother in arms Ciro in the 1G, and our buddy Thura (tur-ah) sporting an RX-8 who we met through TDE. With the cars warmed up and caffeine flowing through our blood we head out to MSRC. There were no real changes on my car other than the Porterfield R4-E pads suggested by the boys at RRE and the addition of a freshly rebuilt Hallman MBC. With boost holding rock steady at 14psi this was just going to be a nice opener to the year…boy was I wrong.

First thing on the plate was to retrieve our driver’s packet and then the invigorating driver’s meeting. That’s when the hints start to register. First off we were driving the 1.7 miles course and not the entire 3.1 mile configuration. Second we were driving it clockwise. This throws a nice wrench into the gears as all the video footage and studying I had done to familiarize myself with the track was now mute. And to top it all off there’s frost across the entire track. Lucky for us, our run group was last in the rotation as the four of us find ourselves graduated into Blue (green  blue  yellow  red). This was like making that transition from 8th grade into your freshman year in high school. One moment you’re at the top, and next thing you know all the Vett driver’s figured out how to control that rear end and Minis are always popping in the rear view mirror.

Morning was business as usual. Unpacking the cars, setting up camp, and getting the cars prepped. And all too soon we see our blue flag waving in the wind beckoning us to the grid. With the cars warmed up we stage towards the back of the pack and check out our fellow drivers. First up is a silver Viper, followed by 2 C6 ZO6s. An older C5 ZO6 and C4 Vette for good measure. Then the Lotus club rolls in with 2 Exiges and an Elise. The rest of the pack is fleshed out by a 2nd gen RX7, few Miatas including a Mazda Speed, couple of M3s, a super-charged S2000, a Mini, an Evo, an 06 Mustang, and an older 911. Once again a very diverse mix for this small and technical track. As the engines fire up and cars begin to roll onto the track, I find my passenger’s seat empty. It’s not long before Dean, our head of instructors, lets me know Scott is one his way up. Scott…hmm…Scott, where have I heard that name before? Oh yeah, that was my brother’s instructor from the TWS event back in Dec. Soon we were strapped in, communicator in place, and under way. We rolled out slowly on the track watching for oncoming traffic and made it through the first few corners while getting acquainted and a brief overview of my car and myself. Things weren’t the normal order as in green with our instructors taking the wheel first to show us the lay of the land. Next thing I remember was, “Brake, Brake!” as we approached the horseshoe. Imagine walking to the edge of a cliff. That’s the view as you approach a very steep downhill, off camber, 180 degree right turn. My back end steps out, we catch and recover, but there isn’t enough track so the decision to straighten out and drive off is made instinctively. We carry a little momentum in order not to be submerged in the mush, but definitely wasn’t the way I wanted to start the weekend. In the hot pits Scott does a once over on the car and we set back off at a turtle’s pace. Again the track is foreign to me and the rear end is very skittish. Scott offers to take the wheel on the next session and I must admit that my ego got a little bruised, but then again it should have never climbed aboard in the first place. I brush it off and handed over the wheel on the next lap in hopes to salvage this session. That decision did two things for me. One was a reality check and two it put the weekend back on track. With Scott at the helm he showed me the line and track position for this tight course. He as well noticed the rear end wanted to come unglued and we began to diagnose the problem. Tire pressure? Started with the base numbers I had used at TWS, 35 front / 32 rear. Suspension? With the rebound on full soft, the feel of the car was off from the steering inputs. Alignment? There was nothing that I did that would have affected the alignment, but it was a possibility. The session completed with Scott at the wheel and a much better understanding of the track. We made a deal to make one change at a time and to start fresh on the next session. Unfortunately, looking back at this first session, it was the makings of a recipe for disaster. First I think I felt a little rushed and a sense of urgency as most of the other cars had completed 2 warm up laps. Secondly I managed to forget to change the rebound settings on the Konis. Third, I just plain didn’t know where I was going. This was not going to be as easy as I had thought.

As the crow flies:
It’s a blast down the front straight at 90mph as I line up 1 car over from the left side of the track. Turn one, ‘Big Bend’ is a typical late apex fast sweeper. Squeeze on the brakes, roll the steering in, maintain throttle, and late apex. Turns two and three form a nice double apex which leads into turn four known as the ‘Horseshoe’. Entering turn two it requires a little more aggressiveness with the brakes and on turn in. As the front dives and the pushes a bit, a little throttle modulation settles the car as you hold the wheel around the two bends. Very important to make that first apex other wise you find yourself out of position for the second half. As you approach the Horseshoe its hard on the brakes before the downhill drop and rolling the car in maintaining that momentum in a nice decreasing radius turn to give you track position on the right for turn 5, aka ‘Buzzard’s Neck’. Tap the brakes, turn in, and track out, classic apex. Turn six is the little brother to ‘Big Bend’ which just so happens to be named ‘Little Bend’. It’s taken in the exact same fashion. Turn 7, ‘Ricochet’, is a very fast right hander. Hard on the brakes, throw the car at the apex, and full throttle out. Turn 8 is a little tricky. The ‘Wagon Wheel’ as it is called is another 180 degree decreasing radius turn with a kink at the end of it. Most cars will use two brake points to scrub speed at entrance and once more to help rotate the car into the next set of twisties called the ‘Rattle Snake’. This is a very tight up hill right, left, right left combination that leads back onto the front straight. Miss a turn in here and it’s very difficult to build up any speed on the straight.

So back at camp we began to trade stories of our first outing. Seems I wasn’t the only one having traction issues and off road excursions. We collaborated on what we learned and began comparing different lines and track positions. MSR is a very tight and technical track which leaves zero room for error. There are no straights long enough for even the high horsepower cars to take advantage of. This was also only the second track I had driven, the first 3 events being at TWS. The familiarity of TWS in both directions provided a level of comfort and security. But this is what I wanted. To see what a completely new track would be like and the challenge of piecing this puzzle together.

Session two was a huge improvement. All four wheels stayed on the track as I etched corner by corner into memory. It was slow and ugly, but each lap Scott and I were able to single out the good corners that needed brushing up and the trouble spots that needed much sorting out. Scott’s driving style differs a bit as his choice of ride is a Porsche Boxter (mid engine, RWD). His lines were very smooth and maintained a lot of momentum. However, on both the ‘Horseshoe’ and ‘Wagon Wheel’ the AWD would just scrub speed and be reluctant to turn. I believe it’s partially due to the unnaturally wide turning circle inherent to our cars and the AWD system trying to keep everything in check. So the quest began to find out a new line that worked.

Session three I found a new passenger in my car. Scott was detained teaching class so David our grid marshal was along for the ride. I knew David through e-mails concerning a new brake setup for the fronts and also knew he was an AWD junkie. We strolled out onto the track remembering to give time for the tires and brakes to get up to operational temps. His style was very similar to my previous instructor Kevin back at TWS (would later find out later that he too was a pupil). We played a bit in the two trouble spots using a hard brake, aggressive turning, and throttle to get the car to rotate. It was more violent than Scott’s and my previous line, but it got the job done. Timing the brake and turn was a bit tricky which we were able to work on until fuel cut reared its ugly face. I was just under ¾ of a tank…cut me a break. Session four brought Scott back in the seat and we discussed some of the changes I did last session with David. I was afraid at first that Scott wouldn’t be receptive to the new style, but he was open minded and allowed me to show some of those changes. We would concentrate on a corner, making minor changes to the car finding out what worked and didn’t work. The results weren’t quite perfect yet, but slowly getting more and more refined. Homework that night was to discuss things over dinner with the boys and see try again tomorrow.

If only track talk over dinner was all that was in store. Instead we found ourselves with an overheating 1G and leaking radiator. Where are you going to find a radiator at 11:00pm on a Sat. night? Actually we already knew that answer. I made a call to a good friend of mine that moved up here from Houston. A few min. later I got a call back and a radiator was secured and on its way. Long story short it was a long night for my buddy Ciro (I passed out), but he was ready to run the next morning. Big shout out to Andy, Chris, and Jason for getting us out of that pinch. We did get to discuss the track a bit, and the two RWD guys suggested trail braking that corner and lift-off oversteer. Are these guys nuts?

In the morning after the driver’s meeting I caught up with Kevin to ask him what his take on the line was. He was instructing the silver EVO in our group. His line was very different in those corners, but supported the driving behavior of the AWD. In the ‘Horseshoe’ instead of breaking before the drop and lining up on the left side of the track, he would dive in early towards the corner under acceleration, straight line brake after the drop, and rotate the car by letting the rear come around. The same amount of speed was scrubbed, but acceleration time was longer into the corner and the distance traveled was half that of the more traditional line. Of course he cautioned me to take it easy learning this method since it is a bit hairy or I might end up in the lake just past the tire wall. Also this could not be done with a car in front as it would place me right in the passenger side door. On the ‘Wagon Wheel’ it was somewhat the same. Instead of staying out, it was a variant of the two part braking. Take off enough speed to make an early apex and ride the inside curbing, straighten out brake, rotate, and throttle up the hill. I would loose a bit more speed in the turn, but made up for with the entry speed.

I relayed that information to Scott and we’re back on the track to try out the new lines. First up the ‘Horseshoe’, I brake early before the drop to test the line. It’s pretty nerve wracking to be coming this deep into the turn under acceleration. Second time around I commit and dive in towards the inside. The car settles down as I get on the brakes and begin the turn. The rear steps out just a little, which is enough to get me pointed around the curb. The momentum retained was unreal as we shot back up the hill. The ‘Wagon Wheel’ was a little different as Scott and I modified the line even further. We returned to the original apex point that Scott indicated, but stayed tucked in tight rather than tracking back out wide. This gave us the shortest distance around the bend and a better braking line to get the car rotated into ‘Rattle Snake’.

For the remaining sessions we worked on tweaking the line, a little faster here, adjust the turn in points, smooth out the braking, controlling the weight transfer, changing shift point, etc. The final session of the day everything clicked and we got off a few fast laps with a small change on the second half of the ‘Rattle Snake’ by decreasing entry speed. The effect saw speeds on the front straight jumped up 4-5 mph faster and I was taking ‘Ricochet’ in forth. It was a great day getting to use what I had learned from previous events and apply them to a new track. Scott was a great instructor and very patient and open minded. He’s a very methodical thinker and can really strategize a corner. Instead of instructing me how to drive, it was more a test and feel with a lot of communication and feedback. I can really appreciate that teaching style and it made me think about the corner instead of just driving the corner. I learned how to approach a corner, break it down, and then see what I had in my bag of tricks could I use to make it in and out the fastest. I can’t wait to get back out on this configuration, but its back to hunting down the V8s at TWS in March!
 

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Great write up man !!!....Sounds like you started to find the line and will do allot better next event there. I tried clicking on the event pic link and it didnt work. Could be my machine but everything else seems to be working on it. Just thought I would say something to you about it. Anyway, great write up again. Sounds like you had a blast even though it wasnt what you had expected.

~Eddie
 
Thanks Eddie. Link is fixed.

I got a little ahead of myself going into this event, but overall I learned more. This track has two major differences from TWS.

1) Blind corners
2) Off camber corners

There's a third, but its stuck on the tip of my tongue.
 
No problem man. Yeah, blind and off camber turns if you have never really raced on them will get you the first few times out on the track wont they? Had fun overall though right? Thats all that matters :thumb:

~Eddie
 
I dont think it possible for me to not have fun on a track. I could be in a Geo Metro and still manage to amuse myself :)

More so than just the fun, I came out with an even newer appreciation for my car and respect for the organizations that hold these sanctioned events. Getting to drive without the worries of the road is just exhilerating.
 
I feel 100% on that man. It is AWESOME to be on a track no matter what you are driving. Just to be ou thtere and not like you said, to worry about the regular road worries you know? Its always nice to learn something new about your car every time you hit the track. Good luck this season.

~Eddie
 
Great read! :thumb: The 17x9's look great. Are you still on the Bridgestones? How did those cope with the heat? I really gotta get out to the track again soon.
 
Yep still running on the Bridgestones, and at this pace they may last me even more than this years worth of driving events. They are holding up much better than I had envisioned. It was actually so cold that it took 2-3 extra laps to get the heat in, but once they were up they were spot on. Fronts would start at 35 and rise to 42-43. The rears only rose a few psi from 32-37. I think the new pads were partially due to the increase in front tire pressure as the R4-Es get really hot.

There's a part of me that wishes for a nice set of RA1s or NT-01s, but I know there's still plently more time to shave just on driver alone. Not to mention that much grip would just get me started on wanting to making that car match that level of performance.

PS: I rolled the rear fenders and that erased the issues with the rears. Do I dare say they may actually tuck.
 
Thats great you are getting the runs out of the Bridgestones man. How many events do you have on them now?

~Eddie
:talon:
 
I've been looking for some tires recently and just wanted to know how you liked those and the waer on them. I looked at the NT-01 but little more than i wanted to spend right now. Alo looked at the Faulken RT-615s as well. Little more reasonable right now for me. Which Bridgestones are you running? Thanks again.

~Eddie
:talon:
 
Yep still running on the Bridgestones, and at this pace they may last me even more than this years worth of driving events. They are holding up much better than I had envisioned. It was actually so cold that it took 2-3 extra laps to get the heat in, but once they were up they were spot on. Fronts would start at 35 and rise to 42-43. The rears only rose a few psi from 32-37. I think the new pads were partially due to the increase in front tire pressure as the R4-Es get really hot.

There's a part of me that wishes for a nice set of RA1s or NT-01s, but I know there's still plently more time to shave just on driver alone. Not to mention that much grip would just get me started on wanting to making that car match that level of performance.

PS: I rolled the rear fenders and that erased the issues with the rears. Do I dare say they may actually tuck.
I always tell people it's best to start out and learn your car with street tires. They will give you warning before they break loose by making noise. R-compounds don't as much so it's easier to get into trouble. Get through your first set of tires and get that comfort level built up before you step up. ;)

Nice to see two DSMs on the same track!
 
I've been looking for some tires recently and just wanted to know how you liked those and the waer on them. I looked at the NT-01 but little more than i wanted to spend right now. Alo looked at the Faulken RT-615s as well. Little more reasonable right now for me. Which Bridgestones are you running? Thanks again.

~Eddie
:talon:

They are Potenza RE050A Pole Positions. Thus far with the 255 setup there is plenty of grip once they get to temp and provide ample feedback so you know what's happening. I got a great deal on them, but Kumho MXs were the second choice. I can agree with what Luda is saying and if your starting out then streets are recommended. Solid advice. Heck, my TDE school requires a minimum of 100 wear rating for green and blue groups.

Falken RT-615s are great auto-x tires, but if they are like their predecessors they tend to get 'greasy' once they get hot. My brother ran the previous Azzenis (ex-auto-x) our first time out the track and said his rear would get loose towards the end of the sessions.

When your ready to move up, my instructors have recommended to me the NT-01, RA1, and the Yoko AdvanA038R as good beginner R-compounds. They aren't the stickiest, but will provide that transition before you end up flat-spotting a Hoosier.
 
Thanks allot man. I will check those tires out for myself. When is your next event?

When your borther ran the Azenis on the track, were they new tires or ones he had previously run AutoX on?

~Eddie
:talon:
 
My next confirmed event is the end of March. I'm on standby right now for the March 3&4 event. Seems the temps are starting to make for nice track days and my run group is filling up quickly.

Those Azenis had seen a good share of auto-x events and have been decommisioned to street tires.

Ludachris said:
Nice to see two DSMs on the same track!

Working on getting more. There are 2 1Gs that are at a lot of events that belong to instructors and we took a friend out in his 2G this last one to get a different perspective of motorsport other than drag racing.
 
My next confirmed event is the end of March. I'm on standby right now for the March 3&4 event. Seems the temps are starting to make for nice track days and my run group is filling up quickly.

Those Azenis had seen a good share of auto-x events and have been decommisioned to street tires.

Working on getting more. There are 2 1Gs that are at a lot of events that belong to instructors and we took a friend out in his 2G this last one to get a different perspective of motorsport other than drag racing.

Could have been the issue with the Azenis though eh? being AutoX before the track event? Well good luck in your next event. I look forward to reading your next write-up.:thumb:

~Eddie
:talon:
 
You guys are inspiring me to turn wrenches again and put in overtime at work to pay the upcoming season. Thanks! :thumb:
 
Could have been the issue with the Azenis though eh? being AutoX before the track event? Well good luck in your next event. I look forward to reading your next write-up.:thumb:

~Eddie
:talon:

Everyone I've talked to who've used 615's for road racing complain that they get greasy and lose grip quite quickly. Most of the Evo guys I ran with said they were overheated in only 3-5 laps.
 
Everyone I've talked to who've used 615's for road racing complain that they get greasy and lose grip quite quickly. Most of the Evo guys I ran with said they were overheated in only 3-5 laps.

Good to know man. Thanks for the input on those Faulkens. :thumb: Looks like I will be going another direction. Might try the Bridgestone Potenzas lke asian312 or the Kumho MXs. Not sure yet. Heard anyone feedback good or bad on thsoe tires? Or the Nitto NT-01? Thanks.

~Eddie
:talon:
 
Every street tire will go off when really pushed. Certainly the MXs do, I've run many sets. It's a good value tire, not good but not scary in the rain. I don't know which RE050A the OP runs but if it's the original type(discontinued) and not the Pole Positions you could definitely get more grip. I'm running the original RE050A now on my Evo and it's ultimate grip is a bit less but with improved wet and comfort/noise. I know a lot people very happy with their RT-615 and another value max performance tire is the Hankook R-S2 Z212 a couple of people I know find them about equivalent of the MX.
 
Every street tire will go off when really pushed. Certainly the MXs do, I've run many sets. It's a good value tire, not good but not scary in the rain. I don't know which RE050A the OP runs but if it's the original type(discontinued) and not the Pole Positions you could definitely get more grip. I'm running the original RE050A now on my Evo and it's ultimate grip is a bit less but with improved wet and comfort/noise. I know a lot people very happy with their RT-615 and another value max performance tire is the Hankook R-S2 Z212 a couple of people I know find them about equivalent of the MX.

Thanks for that input on the tires. I had also heard good about the RT-615s but some bad as well. The good seemed to to be ok for the value vs performance of the tire. But I will also check out the Hancooks as well.

Hang on to your seats gentlemen... Falken is coming out with a DOT slick any day now!!!:rocks:

Good news Greg !!!...Thanks for that one. I will be watching to see when they release those.

~Eddie
:talon:
 
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