Targa T-top [Merged 7-7] T tops targas conversion

[HighPsi92GST]

Did you do any structural support to the car before doing this? Hopefully your car wont bend in half. Good work though, looks good

 

[zachakagoat]

He has a roll cage in there that should support it quite a bit. I don't know how many points it has but any little bit helps. front and rear strut bars would help also. That looks SOOOOOOOOOOO SeXaH. Now what are you going to do for the interior? make plastic pieces out of fiberglass maybe to be used as trim pieces? otherwise it will look trashy inside on the headlinder. Throw up some more pics, upclose pics and pics with the lid on please.

 

[chico904]

That looks sooooo nice bro. I hope that someday I get to the point that I run out of things to do. Until then, I'm just a broke DSM'r

 

[Stapl3]

Take a look at Dre's cage. It's a bit more involved than a generic 6pt.

 

[SnoopySLR]

I don't think Dre did a write up. I just did this 2 hours before I made this thread. I haven't even finished it.... not by a long shot. I've got weather stripping, but I have to fabricate some metal lips to put them on. Give me a few weeks.... I'll have it perfect!

 

[Travisr138]

damn thats sweet looking, good job!

 

[HighPsi92GST]

He has a roll cage in there that should support it quite a bit. I don't know how many points it has but any little bit helps. front and rear strut bars would help also. .

The cage and bars are not going to stop the car from bending right in the middle. Dre's cage has bars going to the front of the car, more like a regular race car. And from what I remember, Dre was still worried about his car bending.

EDIT : here look at dre's supports http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=37316&password=0&sort=2&cat=500&page=1


Edit 2 : straight from Dre in another thread awhile back

I had posted a long subjective summary of the entire procedure on DSMTalk. When I first cut the roof, and did the preliminary chassis strengthening and roof weatherstripping, it did leak, and it did flex Part of the solution was a "tube chassis" to totally eliminate flex. This includes welding angles in every position possible. It is quite difficult to copy a Spyder frame, since I dont have body shop experience or the patience to take my fenders apart (as well as my entire dash). At this moment, there is litterally no more flex. The door jams now seperate as much as a non-cut GSX when lifted from the middle.

Edit 3 : final edit, go here and scroll down, tons of pics of dre's supports to keep the car from folding up
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16479&page=6&pp=10

 

[gbell]

Sweet targa. I'm a big fan of them, but I'd be too afraid I'd bend her in the middle. I wish I ran out of things to do, I'm just getting started.

 

[WatchItExplode]

I don't know if DSM's are the same way, but people have tried targa topping MR2's and their windshields end up cracking from lack of support.

 

[talonfromtenn]

has anyone that's worried about bending the car in half though of what kind of support a targa honda del sol has? none.... same for the supra.... the A and B pillar are the support up top and the frame is what keeps you from sagging.....if it's a problem you could always just strengthen the undercarriage.....

 

[HighPsi92GST]

Those cars are built that way. I can garuntee you during the design of the car they took that into consideration, and beefed up the under carriage of the car. In this case, you are cutting the roof off a car that was not designed to have the roof removed. The roof is part of what holds the car together. Dre (dre99gsx) did the targo on his car, and the car started to sag. So it happens. The cars were just not built to have the roof removed, so extra support must be added to them.

 

[sumenlo]

I agree with the car sagging. If it were me, I would do a T-Top conversion. You'd get better chassis support and the look would be cool. Still, I'd be scared to do anything like that to an AWD car without some kind of roll cage support. I can imagine the first launch literally twisting the car.

 

[kevingst]

Along those lines and hitting off the t-top idea(even that may not be enough, much less an unstructured targa)...show me just 1 Grand National that's REALLY fast that has t-tops. I've never seen one. Had a friend that tried...twisted the hell out of it.

 

[SnoopySLR]

I've got braces under the car. I welded 2 beams along the skid rails. I found a kid who actually did this with NO support whatsoever. His car was fine. I asked him how he drove it, his reply "I street race every weekend!" Translated "I drive like a tool constantly!" No bending, his car drives straight, and top goes on and off perfectly. If he can be ok with nothing, I'm deffinatly ok... and dre is beyond ok.

HighPsi92GST, can you explain to me how a roll cage isn't going to help the car not bend. You got a bar in the middle... support bars going to the rear... support bar going to the front.... and some more braces in the middle.

 

[speedy13]

Snoop,you are something else man.Mad props.I would htink a t-top might look better,but yours looks damm good too.

 

[HighPsi92GST]

If you have something like a 4 point cage thats only in the back of the car, it will do absolutly nothing to stop the car from bending. I just noticed now that you do have the door bars going up to the front, which those will help to stop the car from bending. As my one post shows, Dre added alot of extra support after just the cage to keep the car straight. And since you added more support under the car, that should help also.

I found a kid who actually did this with NO support whatsoever

Did he show you pictures of his car with no roof and no support? Other people who have done it had the car sag right after cutting the roof off.

Also if I would cut the roof off my car, Id definitly put a full cage in because who knows whats going to happen when you get in an accident now that some of the cars bracing is gone. I wouldnt want the car to fold up with me in it.

 

[SnoopySLR]

I've never liked T-tops. I've always liked Targa's better.

I see your point about the roll bar, but I got a 8 point with braces under. I'm ok.
This kid had pics of the inside... no cage...not even strut bars. I couldn't believe it. I don't know who your talking about doing this. I've searched so much, and only found maybe 6 people who have done this. I think his name is Mitsureaper... primer 2g eclipse with targa and supra tails. I don't know what he used for bracing. His interior pics show no cage.

 

[HighPsi92GST]

hm... well the cage is under 75 lbs. i dont really consider this a bad add of weight. because it is nice to have. the unibody cross tie is probably around 10 lbs. it is made from all aluminum and bolted to the car.

Hes got support, but even that wasnt enough...

i got mitsureapers car and he didnt do such a good job on it but im fixing it up... i think im putting t tops on it so it dont flex to much and it would still look alright i think and if i dont like the way it looks then ill just take the t tops back off and make it targa top. i drove it from michigan to mn and it flexed a lil like in the bumps and jus tthe way he cut it looked horrible
ill try get some pics soon

Sweeteclipse95 now owns the car and its not gray primer anymore, and has t-tops.

ProjectEclipse also has a targa top conversion done.

 

[SnoopySLR]

wow... this guy knows his threads

 

[HighPsi92GST]

Just here to help

I'm not trying to be an @$$ or anything, just pointing out the facts. I think it looks awesome, so I will not be one to put down your work.

 

[fr33b1rth]

There are a few custom shops around here that have done t-tops, targa tops, and removed tops competly from vehicles. My fav one was an older S-10 running a supercharged 383 stroker with NO TOP. It was bad! They didnt do to much work to the cab, just braces across the back and side under the doors, but remember that that isn't a unibody.

They did a targa on a 240sx and ran a bar along the windshield pillar, the b-pillar and two underneath the entire length of the car with trianguladed braces along them. This car was far stiffer than stock and i was told it was actully a horrible ride, even with air-bags. The car didnt flex AT ALL. There is a happy medium between flexing of the vehicle and bending the vehicle.

THE FOLLOWING ARE FROM OBSERVATIONS ONLY AND MAY NOT BE FACT.

On our cars the windshield frame, door frames, b-pillar, and hatch frame appear to be structural supports.

Removing the roof is nothing, its just a piece of sheetmetal, removing structral elements is what creates problems.

That means if you remove the window frames, then you need to add support there. That also means that you have to do it on the bottom of the car. I believe creating a properly triangulated subframe would be the best method of this considering it will help both with the torsional regidity as well and the sagging. Basicly you have to make our car non-unibody so it wont sag.

A typical roll cage will do absoluty nothing in this case because they are tied into the unibody and do not become their own frame. The unibody would be bending, and the roll cage would do NOTHING to stop it.

Look at a prerunner's rollcage. Although they are trucks and non-unibody, they still triangulate the frame because the nature of the sport enduces so much frame flex. The rollcage is then tied into the frame creating one big box. This creates an extremly strong structure. We all know that when metal flexes it creates micro-cracks that weaken the metal. Repeated abuse will cause the metal to fail across these cracks.

The flex caused by a targa top on our cars would cause sagging between the windshield and b-pillar along the bottom of the doors, eventually causing the car to break in half. This would probubly happen far after the sagging became noticible, and even far after the car lost all driveability.

 

[SnoopySLR]

Just here to help

I'm not trying to be an @$$ or anything, just pointing out the facts. I think it looks awesome, so I will not be one to put down your work.

Never thought you were being an @$$

fr33b1rth, think of a roll cage attached to a unibody like this. You have a card board box, shaped like a rectangle, with no top or bottom. All sides rely on each other to keep the shape. Now you add a top and a bottom... the box keeps its shape much better and is stronger now. You attached the top and bottom to the existing sides. Same princible with a roll cage on a unibody.

One really fun thing we did with a 94 taurus was cutting the entire roof off. Made it into a convertable (then we jumped it ) When we made the cuts nothing happend. No sagging, no bending, the blade wasn't getting stuck in the cut from the car sagging. We drove it around for a few hours, still was fine. There was a crack in the windshield before we cut it, and after we cut it it didn't change size. Not until our 10th or so jump did the car finally drag the ground.... ahhhh good times!

 

[endlessMyk]

I was thinking about taking a risk at doing the targa on a 1g.... I know a guy in Shippensburg turned his 1g into a convertible, 10pt cage, Never thought about doing T-Tops... The targa is still by far my favorite... want to find a place close to me that will do it.. do it right. There is a guy who said he's gonna do it, but is always gonna have it off, i want mine to still be a DD.

Snoop, you're car looks sweet, if you get REAL bored, you can come out to PA and do mine! Also if you have some better pics of your car (with Targa) I'd like to see them, it may become my new desktop.

 

[SnoopySLR]

I usually vacation in PA. I've been rapiding on the Yough for the last 2 years. I've seen a Targa 1G, loved it. I'll get better pics when its finished. Thanks for the props.

 

[dre99gsx]

Don't cut your roof, buy my car (its for sale!).

Lift your car from underneath the door area. Measure (truthfully) how much yoru door jam gap increases. Stock is about 1/8". My previous roll cage (6-pt) was almost 1/4". (With no cage, was almost 1/3"). Right now is about 1/16", stiffer than a stock gsx. You'll need to weld support boxes up and around the entire door sill - a-pillar to b-pillar to insdie the widnshield frame, even under your dash, to accomplish rigidity. Pothole city (NY/NJ) is a must. Your windshield will shake like crazy. The Spyder windshields are notorious for shaking. Goodluck.