t25 w/ front mount

[AdoreGSX]

A guy I know just stuck a huge frontmount on his t25'd eclipse. He is claiming that he sees gains but it just doesnt make sense to me. Can someone explain this to me as far as intercoolers and turbos go. Ive heard many a person say that frontmounts hurt more than help cars w/ stock t25 on.

 

[nellystyle]

seems like it would take an extra 2 minutes just to fill a huge front mount with air from the t25.

or, he's going to be upgrading turbos soon.

 

[Staytuned]

Lets see I put a huge front mount on my little T25 last summer and I ran nearly 100mph in the 1/4. That was up from 95's the summer before. Anyone that says a t25 that flows 24 lbs/m can't fill the space in the new front mount IC is on crack. There is no way that this will produce any measurable increase in turbo spool time.

 

[river]

anybody who puts a huge FMIC w/ a t-25 is on crack. the stock sidemount is fine for the t-25. has everybody heard of pressure drop, well...turns out, that is our enemy! what do you think your going to accomplish pushing a t-25 to its max to fill all the piping and core? your only going to INCREASE your full spool time and in all actuallity make your car slower by increasing lag. FMIC's are meant for turbo's larger than a t-25, possibly even larger than a 14b. they become effective with turbos larger than 18g and really nothing less. i know guys who have run low 13's with a stock SMIC, t-25, race gas, SAFC, 190lph fuel pump, and a 3" turbo back. then we slapped on my FMIC and he consistanly ran a much slower time due to increased lag. think about it.

 

[Terror Rising]

I put one on because I was ready to upgrade turbos and would rather have all supporting mods in place. Also, my stock IC was somewhat crushed (looks like it went through an accident) and all the fins in the front were bent, basically it was useless. In my case it helped a little but I don't have a huge core.

 

[Staytuned]

anybody who puts a huge FMIC w/ a t-25 is on crack. the stock sidemount is fine for the t-25. has everybody heard of pressure drop, well...turns out, that is our enemy! what do you think your going to accomplish pushing a t-25 to its max to fill all the piping and core? your only going to INCREASE your full spool time and in all actuallity make your car slower by increasing lag. FMIC's are meant for turbo's larger than a t-25, possibly even larger than a 14b. they become effective with turbos larger than 18g and really nothing less. i know guys who have run low 13's with a stock SMIC, t-25, race gas, SAFC, 190lph fuel pump, and a 3" turbo back. then we slapped on my FMIC and he consistanly ran a much slower time due to increased lag. think about it.

I only know what I experienced not what I have read on this board. I got my FMIC in a group buy that saved me money....so I put it on and voila I ran higher traps and put down 200 AWHP and 230 ft/lbs of torque at ....what till you hear this 19 psi thats right all that hot air and I still managed to put down more power at a higher than recommended psi.

So don't always believe what you read on this board or what other people say. Do you your own research and make your own decisions.

 

[Shadowfax]

Many people will tell you a FMIC will hurt a small turbo performance.

They are nearly 100% working off theory not practical experience.

The long and short is that any turbo that flows XXX airflow will flow that amount of air. Typically a small turbo will heat and continue to heat as it tries to keep up with demands. This heat expands the air more and more, making things worse and worse. With a FMIC that can cool that air, you'll get the most amount of power from the limited airflow.

Is it worth it?!? That's the problem. I installed a 26"X11"X3" FMIC on my stock turbo'd 92 Stealth TT- 275cfm airflow from both turbos, 550cfm total airflow. I was told time and again that I'd hurt my flow and my power. Pushed the 9b's to ends of their ability, right to the 11's. I spooled quicker than stock even with the ginormaus FMIC on the itty bitty turbos.

Will you see less BOOST?!? Quite probably. But boost doesn't matter. Airflow matters. As long as your turbo will flow XXX air, that's what you look for. Don't worry if you have 17psi to redline, or 15psi to redline on a T25- it's all heat expansion anyway. Besides, if you change your cams, your IC pipes, your IC, your head- you'll modify boost. Boost is simply how poorly your intake track flows. The higher boost your MOTOR needs to make power, the more you need port work. The higher boost your TURBO needs to make power, that's simply wheel configuration.

There is a severe difference between airflow and boost. Just remember- airflow=power. Boost may or may not = airflow.

It depends on your turbo, your setup in general, and what you are looking for.

But again if your turbo only flows enough to make 250HP, then a bad IC setup will net you worse power. A great IC setup will net you closer to your 250HP. But no matter what you do- without airflow you won't increase your power.

My advice, put a FMIC on when you can, and put a bigger turbo on as soon after as your fuel will allow

I'd rather have a FMIC on a T25 than a FP Red on a stock IC/stock fuel setup

 

[daren_p]

I don't have personal experience with that but when a buddy of mine put his large greddy fmic on his stock t25 (had a bunch of supporting mods) he said all he really noticed was some more lag on spool up & it didn't feel any faster. He didn't have any times to prove either way, just the butt dyno.

 

[herostar]

A FMIC WILL help performance over the stock sidemount. Doesn't matter what anyone says cooler air= more power. Yes, it is a bigger core, yes, there is pressure drop, yes, spool may be a little slower. Either way your turbo is still flowing X ammount of air and the engine is still injesting that air. Only difference now is that it's cooler air. I've seen gains on 3 different cars using the t25 when they got a fmic over the stock smic

 

[Stanford]

A FMIC WILL help performance over the stock sidemount. Doesn't matter what anyone says cooler air= more power. Yes, it is a bigger core, yes, there is pressure drop, yes, spool may be a little slower. Either way your turbo is still flowing X ammount of air and the engine is still injesting that air. Only difference now is that it's cooler air. I've seen gains on 3 different cars using the t25 when they got a fmic over the stock smic

Exactly. Unless it is a 40"x25"x5" Intercooler. :laugh: .

On a serious note anyone who thinks a Stock sidemount will out perform an "average" Front mount needs a little more experience under the car and less on a keyboard. For those that think the car is "slower" you have a boost leak or some other problem hindering performance.

 

[herostar]

I just have two things to add:

First, has anyone ever seen a dsm lose power because they added a FMIC to replace the stock sidemount?

Second, people say that above 15 psi the T25 just blows hot air, well with a FMIC that wouldn't be as much of a problem would it...? I know larryD made something like 270 hp on his t25 using a fmic at something like 25psi. I bet those numbers wouldn't have happened w/ the stock sidemount.

 

[ITSME4G63]

t25 and 25psi shoudl not be said in the same sentence.

 

[Staytuned]

I have hit 22 psi more than a few times on the highway.

 

[NickMOSU]

I recently installed AGP's Race FMIC on my car with the stock t-25. The core itself is like 28"x10.5"x3.5" so its pretty freaking huge. Of course I am waiting on my 50 trim as I didn't put it on for the t-25. I do not see ANY gains, nor do I see any spoolup difference.

 

[Sic95gst]

i don't know about you guys but i would love to have a decent size FMIC even if it's on my little ass turbo.

 

[ISUJakey]

The car with the T25 record according to DSMTimes.org was running a Greddy large front mount at the time of the record setting run. I know the owner (car has since been sold) and personally saw the car. I believe the record broken by a gentleman in Tennessee this past year however the car was no where near stock versus the GSX driven by Allan Dahlen was stock minus:
ACT 2600
Greddy Type S
Boost Contoller
Front Mount & Piping
3" RSR Turbo Back (I think)
Boost Gauge
EGT Gauge
No fuel mods or any form of fuel management

Check it out: http://www.dsmtimes.org/turbo.htm

Hopefully that'll provide a little insight as to your decision in regards to installing a front mount along with your future plans.

 

[Injected]

When I was doing research on intercoolers I read that going with an intercooler with a width greater than 3" isn't a great idea. (SCC October 2001) Mike Kojima stated (talking about intercooler efficiency),"Eighty percent of the cooling occurs within the first 2 inches of an intercooler's core, so a thin-cored intercooler is usually more efficient that a thick-cored one." He later says, "As a rule, unless you are trying to minimize lag by reducing intake tract volume, try to run the biggest intercooler you can stuff into the nose of you car - within reason." With that said you must realize that the difference in tract volume by adding a normal sized intercooler must not be enough to severely disrupt the performance on the T-25. The power increase would be, as stated, from the cooler temperatures and the lag (if apparent) would be from the increase in tract volume. Any time you increase the tract volume, you will to some degree increase the lag time, it just may not be noticeable. People will talk about theory or experience, you just have to evaluate where you are at and where you want to go, what you believe after researching the topic thoroughly and then make a decision. Hope this helps.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

A lot of you would definitely benefit from reading "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell. That is all .

 

[JessesTalon]

I know this is kind of an older thread, but my 94 dsm made a huge difference with a FMIC on the 14b... I ran a 13.6 with only 13 pounds of boost untuned... without fmic a 14.1 untuned...

Also you can't run most boost with the stock smic... your going to end up with knock which is going to kill your timing which is going to kill your power.

tuned on 20psi no knock lots of timing my 14b and fmic felt AWESOME. and it spooled up (full) 2300 rpms

 

[jim97gst]

For the people who think the stock sidemount is more than adequate for a T25, try running a 60 second autocross course in Arizona in July. I've gotten my intercooler too hot to even touch. Even yesterday it was pretty mild at around 70 and I was getting it pretty darn hot. Even on the street, in the summer, a few hard pulls and the loss in power is very noticeable.

 

[Jahjahpoet]

... Geez man.. I have the greddy big fmic... I love it... i personally have the boost set to hit 20-21psi (drops to stock by 6k)... been at this settin for the past 10,000miles... and not only does it pull harder at that then it does at 15, but I think that if I didn't have the fmic, then it totally would have been pointless. Even at 15psi, I've run other FWD eclipses with the same exact mods and same boost setting... and i've pulled on them... I really didnt see that much of a loss in spool up time.. still hit 20psi in fifth gear by 2.5k... *clink* *clink* thats my 2 cents

 

[Red95DSM]

How significant would the increased spool time be on a T25 with a FMIC ? can't be all that much.

 

[JiveMasterT]

i would think that the main difference people would notice when upgrading from the stock sidemount is the addition of the solid IC pipes. i put a solid lower IC pipe on my car and it seems to pull a little harder... i wonder what it would do with a full set of pipes would do.

im thinking a short route pipe set with a decent sized fmic would net gains on a t25, which is what i plan on doing right before i get my fuel stuff, then ultimately a bigger turbo.

 

[theSicKness]

to the post above this one i put a full greddy piping kit on it does pull harder made a howling noise when i put the lower on


well ive got a stock t25 and a front mount.... No it dosnt hurt ur spool time ect and to be honest i only noticed a small gain....so if u do it good 4 u but i will not hurt ur performance hell i have a huge one look at the pic

 

[2GturboTALON]

Just a thought but for all of you who say it helped, When was the last time you cleaned your sidemount?