Switching to E98!!!

[MyÜberFastGSX]

Just figured I'd let everyone know that I'm switching my car to E98. 120 octane, $3.50 per gallon and so pure you can almost drink it. If everything goes right I should make about 550 awhp when the swap is done.

 

[SonySlave]

Portland A**hole!!!

J/K... THEY NEED TO GET THAT CRAP UP HERE IN OLY!!!!

 

[MyÜberFastGSX]

haha. I think they have E85 up there which you can get in a 110 octane version, but I'm not getting the E98 from the pump, English Racing a local DSM Shop is buying 500 gallons a week right now, and thats where I'm getting it from. Once we get more buyers he can start ordering bigger quantities which will decrease the price, his goal is to get it down to about $3.10 a gallon.

 

[Burnett03]

So i assume you have the fuel system ready for it? Or atleast planned? Dsmlink, large, large injectors, all new lines, afpr, wideband, good flowing pump?

 

[MyÜberFastGSX]

Yea, I', going with 1000cc RC injectors, I already have a big ss fuel line. I'm currently running one whalboro 255 lph, and if we hit fuel cut, then I'll run in line 255's

 

[WatchItExplode]

I'm willing to bet your SS fuel line won't work with ethanol, unless it was designed to. Everything your fuel touches that's made of rubber will need to be replaced. There's a guy on the DSMlink forums that did the conversion...I'll see if I can dig up some info for ya.

edit: apparently from what I'm reading, I was wrong. Rubber components don't need to be replaced, but they will deteriorate faster. Ethanol doesn't have the same effect as methanol.

 

[maperformance]

We experimented with E98 for a little while.

Car started out with Dual Walbro 255HP's, 1600cc injectors, -8 fuel line up, and -6 return line. Fuelab FPR. Base fuel pressure was set to 38PSI. We were tuning with DSMLink.

The car made just over 600whp!

Why we stopped?

Injector Duty Cycles were 98 percent. This is on 1600s. They were sitting at about 94 percent at 550whp.

We experimented with base fuel pressure a little bit, but 600 seems to be about the limit of a single set of 1600's.

On 1000CC injectors, I think you will be lucky to even touch 500whp before running out of fuel!

We were tuning for about .78 Lambda. That is somewhere in the 11.5:1 range on gasoline.

You will more than likely need way more fuel to make your desired power.

 

[2gAWDTalon]

1000cc will be way to small!
I am using 1600's for e85.
Thanks for the Tial BOV today Chris (MAPerformance)

 

[LucasEnglish]

For his 550whp goal the 1000s will be a bit small. My EVO makes 429whp and runs 11.2@122 on 850's so I feel 1000s should be good for close to 500whp and we may do 1200s if he really thinks he is going for 550whp. I have done a few cars with 1600s and they just suck for idle and normal driving.

Even though we have E98 we may still blind it down to E85 with 92oct if we are running out of fuel.

I would think if you are not dropping fuel pressure 1600s on E98 should be good for around 650whp- 700whp. On our E85 with Meth inj EVO we made 712whp and were only using 70% of our injectors.

Our Evo has twin 255hp intank with a 6an line from each pump froward to each side of the rail and the FPR comes off the middle. I have seen a few test when you do twin pumps if they are T-off in the tank they will not flow near as well.

 

[LucasEnglish]

Well I was wrong and you are right.

Last Thrsday I did a cust car with a 3065 and every supporting mod. Car had ran 10.7@134 on race gas and 1000's.

The car has a 255hp in the tank and a 255hp up front. On straight E98 we had enough fuel for about 30psi which was in the high 500's. We ended up running a E90 blind with race gas to get our safe tune at 34psi. The car did run 10.5@134 with him letting off hard not to go over 135mph since he only has a role bar and not a cage.

We experimented with E98 for a little while.

Car started out with Dual Walbro 255HP's, 1600cc injectors, -8 fuel line up, and -6 return line. Fuelab FPR. Base fuel pressure was set to 38PSI. We were tuning with DSMLink.

The car made just over 600whp!

Why we stopped?

Injector Duty Cycles were 98 percent. This is on 1600s. They were sitting at about 94 percent at 550whp.

We experimented with base fuel pressure a little bit, but 600 seems to be about the limit of a single set of 1600's.

On 1000CC injectors, I think you will be lucky to even touch 500whp before running out of fuel!

We were tuning for about .78 Lambda. That is somewhere in the 11.5:1 range on gasoline.

You will more than likely need way more fuel to make your desired power.

 

[maperformance]

Well I was wrong and you are right.

Last Thrsday I did a cust car with a 3065 and every supporting mod. Car had ran 10.7@134 on race gas and 1000's.

The car has a 255hp in the tank and a 255hp up front. On straight E98 we had enough fuel for about 30psi which was in the high 500's. We ended up running a E90 blind with race gas to get our safe tune at 34psi. The car did run 10.5@134 with him letting off hard not to go over 135mph since he only has a role bar and not a cage.

So you are having good luck adding race fuel to the E98? We may try going this route, but have heard some poor results elsewhere. Our other shop car will have 8x1600cc injectors, so fuel shouldn't be much of a problem Then we will really see what the E98 can do!

 

[MyÜberFastGSX]

Unfortunately I have to put off my swap to E98, because I blew my PTE 50 trim turbo. Which came at no surprise to me as I was told they have problems when you run your oil feed line strait from the oil filter housing. So now I have to send it back to precision, also thinking about possibly upgrading.

 

[Raph]

Keep this thread alive.. we have e92 here or e 90 something i have to check..at the pump the sticker showed 106 octane ,and its cheap!! )it costs 50 cents less per liter than the V-power 100 octane/aral ultimate 100 i usually fill up with.

 

[Car Cannibal]

Consider mixing in 93 octane if you feel 1000cc injectors are going to run lean. E85 is 15% 87 octane so mixing in 93 to E98 will net you an even higher octane level than E85 with more BTU's.

If E85 is 105 octane that acts like 108-110, then E98 with 93 octane mixed in at 15% should be 110 octane that acts around 114.

 

[MyÜberFastGSX]

That's a good point. There are alot of combination mixes that are available to tamper with. We'll have to see what nets us the greatest and safest gains.

 

[DoyoFCT]

just curious, i dont know much about the e85/98 fuels, but do those fuels work with direct port nitrous systems? or do they require jetting changes? i havent heard many ppl discuss that.

 

[aero_sallee]

just curious, i dont know much about the e85/98 fuels, but do those fuels work with direct port nitrous systems? or do they require jetting changes? i havent heard many ppl discuss that.

It will definitely require jetting changes. It will have to be significantly larger on the fuel jet to maintain a safe mixture.

 

[twicks69]

Does anyone know of E98 Distributors in the Midwest???

I have been trying to find one for a while, but I have had no good luck.

If I can find one around here, I will be looking into doing a fuel type changeup....I am not willing to pay $23.00/gallon for VP import, and I am definitely sick of paying $14.00/gallon for VP C16 on a regular basis.

The only other option is to stick with C16 and run Meth Injection.

 

[Tsibred1]

Tim, running E98 isn't going to be nearly as effective as running C16+methanol at this point. I mean these guys are MAXING this stuff at a ballpark of 600whp, and C16 would obviously be able to take it much higher than that with a step down in injector size. Is your main motivation the cost behind C16? Since as a power increase, this wouldn't be the right step with your setup. I know it's a bit iffy, but have you also looking into propane injection, I assume you have since Nick with the VR4 is always talking it up, but I'm curious why you are stepping towards methanol, is there a knock issue?

 

[Tsibred1]

Check that, looking at your most recent dyno numbers, the E98 wouldn't be able to support your car at it's current point, so why are you interested in switching to ethanol based fuel?

 

[twicks69]

Andy, I was researching it for when I stepped to over 40psi for boost. I was intending on changing up to a larger injector, 5-bar MAP, and VP Import. Unfortunately I know that the E98 requires a boatload more fuel to do the same thing.

--> I guess that meth injection looks more feasible for $<500 for the meth setup.

My goal is just to do over 800whp, and I think it is realistic for VP import or C16 + meth on a set of 280 cams in my current setup at 40-42psi.

If it isn't enough, I will just change out for a 4094R instead.



If I went with E98, I was intending on dual walboro 255HP in-tanks with each line running to another walboro 255HP in-line to 8x1600cc injectors, and a -8AN return.

Personally, I know if I stayed on gas, it is obtainable with just 1600cc injectors on my dual pump setup.

 

[Tsibred1]

I really really doubt you'd be able to hit the 800 number with the E98. Its feasible, yes, but you would be pouring money into the tuning of that like someone lit your bank account on fire. I'd be interested in seeing if you would be able to hit the 800 number without the need of methanol, I know it's required at a high level, but you would be skirting the area where you could get away without requiring that. Plus, the rate at which you would go through the E98 might make it more expensive than the C16 in the long run haha. Propane might not be a bad thing to look into for some minor knock reduction at this point, I know summit and jegs both have very affordable easy to use kits. I forget if it's any additive to the fuel such as methanol or just methanol that alters the bracket you are in for racing, if it's just methanol, sneaking in propane wouldn't be too bad

 

[Tsibred1]

Oh, and another note, using the race gas we can get around here which last time I looked is what a maximum of 108 octance leaded in muskego? That fuel combined with methanol maybe able to give you the results without using C16, it's definetly something you will have to play around with, but I wouldn't surrender myself to C16 and methanol right off the bat.

 

[twicks69]

I was getting a little ping on the dyno last time at 35psi on C16, but I think I had some old Rockett 111 sitting in the tank that sorta screwed up the tune.

Yeah, Muskego and several other race "pump" gas suppliers carry Rockett 111 or Turbo Blue 110 locally for $5.00 to $5.50/gallon right now.

I will have to put more time into researching the meth injection alternative to keep it effective on cost. I will just have to find a pressure switch to turn on the meth at like 18psi, and have it run through 43psi of boost. I will just make the AEM run it, so all I really need is to run a boost control solenoid to the EMS and use the nitrous control map to turn it on or off based on engine load, throttle position and rpm.

 

[DSMunknown]

Just figured I'd let everyone know that I'm switching my car to E98. 120 octane, $3.50 per gallon and so pure you can almost drink it.

Huh. That's almost what I'm paying at the pump for premium.