Stroker Motor Advice

[VETTE_50_TH]

Maybe stock ones. Ive never red of people complaining about 2.4' having problems after being built.

 

[92_talon_awd]

Okay, the whole "Headgasket eating 2.4L" comment threw me off, I hadn't really heard anything like that but if it's true, I definitely want to stay away from that headache. I really want a 2.3L anyways, not a 2.4L

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

2.4 dont have the oil ring in the wrist pin though. I would choose a 2.4 if you had the option.

 

[92_talon_awd]

4g64 or 4g63 2.4L, or is there really a lot of difference? I'm also curious how you could tell those pistons I have are 2.4 pistons vs stroker pistons? I thought a stroker piston was just shorter so that it wouldn't come out of the cylinder when the stroke was increased.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

You have two options. A 4g63 block and a 4g64 block. With a 4g63, you can have a 2.0, 2.2 i believe and a 2.3. The 2.2 and 2.3 use a different crank. The 2.0 uses the 88mm crank.

The 4g64/g4cs is a 2.4, longrod 2.4, or destroked. That uses a 100mm crank, or a custom length crank.

 

[delta448]

Judging from your picture, you have pistons that have the wrist pin moved up 6mm to the stroker piston's pin position. If these pistons are 87mm diameter, then you have pistons that will work to create:

1) "long rod 2.0"
4G63 block (with 0.080 overbore), 88mm crank, long rod (156mm rod), 2.092L with an 87mm bore

2) "2.3L stroker"
4G63 block (with 0.080 overbore), 100mm crank, standard rod (150mm), 2.378L with 87mm bore

3) "destroker 2.1L"
4G64 block (with 0.020 overbore), 88mm crank, extra long rod (162mm rod), 2.092L with an 87mm bore

4) "long rod 2.4L"
4G64 block (with 0.020 overbore), 100mm crank, long rod (156mm rod), 2.378L with 87mm bore

5) Something custom using any non-stock stroke length crankshaft and the correct length custom connecting rods for whichever block you use. You can use the charts Maurice and I posted links to in order to figure out what you'd need.

If you can find a 4G64 block, my choice would be the beastly long rod 2.4L. Just ask gixxerdrew (A.K.A. Andrew Brilliant) if he likes his.

 

[TunaTalon]

The 4g64 block has a bigger bore (87mm) AND a taller deck to allow for the long stroke without the piston coming out the top of the deck. If you put the 100mm crank in a 4g63 (normally 88mm) you need to make up for the extra 12mm the piston is traveling up. Thus, move the piston wrist pin up 12mm which will bring the top of the piston 12mm down, keeping things square again.

The pin on stroker pistons is 6 mm higher than stock, not 12. The 100mm crank goes 6mm lower than the stock 88mm crank at BDC and 6mm higher at TDC. The stroker piston only has to compensate for the 6mm difference at TDC.




The piston in the picture looks like a stroker piston as the pin is pushed up into the oil ring while the old doggy piston has the pin below the oil ring. But I will not make the call remotely over this wireless link. Look for numbers on the piston. The cut from a catalog in a prior post was for a stock dimension 2.0L piston.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

I have been told i believe wossner makes some that are not in the oil ring. From what ive been told.

 

[Sam@RRE]

The headgasket eating thing is due to the block flexing easier. We've built only a handfull of the 4G64 2.4L motors. All but one have killed a headgasket or two. One of which is in our blue shop evo and that's the only one that hasn't blown a headgasket yet, though we haven't pushed the car to its max yet, and kept it down for the most part. This year we will be hitting Cal speedway again in the Redline TA event, with more power, see if it dies this time around, if it does, we'll be going back down to a 2.3L.

Honestly, you dont make any more power on a stroker vs a 2.0L. Only benefit is a quicker spool up.

 

[92_talon_awd]

Thanks Delta, that's exactly the answer I was hoping for. I think I'll go with option number 2 because the eagle rods I have are stock length, I've already got the pistons and the block so all I have to get is a crank kit. Tuna, that "cut from a catalog" is actually a picture I took of the label on the side of the box the pistons came in. From what I was told, they were a custom order for a customer and he never paid so they've been sitting around the machine shop for a while now. That's why I got them for cheap, to get them off of their hands.

I have a question about the info Delta posted, I noticed that #1  have the same displacement and that #2 & #4 do too but they have different names like "long rod 2.0" and "2.3L stroker." Is the 2.3L stroker (#2) pretty much a 2.4L in everything but name? Thanks.

I'm not really looking for more power, just better low end torque and faster spool on my HX35.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

The headgasket eating thing is due to the block flexing easier. We've built only a handfull of the 4G64 2.4L motors. All but one have killed a headgasket or two. One of which is in our blue shop evo and that's the only one that hasn't blown a headgasket yet, though we haven't pushed the car to its max yet, and kept it down for the most part. This year we will be hitting Cal speedway again in the Redline TA event, with more power, see if it dies this time around, if it does, we'll be going back down to a 2.3L.

Honestly, you dont make any more power on a stroker vs a 2.0L. Only benefit is a quicker spool up.

Which is why you buy a girdle and good headstuds. I dont understand how a cast iron block using the same material and design as a 4g63 will flex any more than its brother. I dont understand that.

 

[delta448]

From what I was told, they were a custom order for a customer and he never paid so they've been sitting around the machine shop for a while now. That's why I got them for cheap, to get them off of their hands.

This worries me a little. I think you need to be very sure what the compression height of these pistons actually is. As a custom order the wrist pin positioning could be fairly random.

I have a question about the info Delta posted, I noticed that #1  have the same displacement and that #2 & #4 do too but they have different names like "long rod 2.0" and "2.3L stroker."

These are just common combinations of which block, rod length and crank throw, so the names are the ones most DSMers will recognize the combo as. The displacement of 1&3 and 2&4 are the same because the stroke and bore are the same, but the rod length and block aren't which will give each engine different characteristics.

Is the 2.3L stroker (#2) pretty much a 2.4L in everything but name? Thanks.

The "stroker" is a slightly different animal than a "2.4". It uses a 63 block and a 6mm shorter standard length rod.

If you want to get really technical, with an 87mm bore and a 100mm stroke, you have closer to an actual 2.4 liters of displacement than a stock 2.4 does. Names are names, and we generally just say "2.3 stroker" no matter what actual displacement is, just because it's a 100mm crank in a 63 block. Whereas if you would say "2.4" almost everyone you talk to will instantly and without question assume that you have a 4G64/G4CS block.

I'm not really looking for more power, just better low end torque and faster spool on my HX35.

Stroker all the way. It's proven, it has great low-end and it spools fast. The drawback is a lower rpm limit than any of the other combinations above if similarly built, but for street and occasional mild track use it's really tough to beat. It's somewhat cheaper to build too.

 

[92_talon_awd]

Thanks again man, the label on the box says the compression height is 1.130 which is like 28.7mm, not sure if that means anything to you. It doesn't to me, which is why I'm here for help. I've built different motors in stock configuration over my life but this will be my first motor that isn't stock. I'm not counting my current motor cause 2g pistons aren't what I would consider non-stock.

 

[delta448]

the label on the box says the compression height is 1.130 which is like 28.7mm, not sure if that means anything to you

That's the right compression height for regular stroker style pistons. Sounds like you're good to go as soon as you source a 100mm crank.

 

[92_talon_awd]

Awesome, I'm glad you were able to kick in with some knowledge. There is one more question I have left; can I use a regular 100mm crank from any of these crank kit manufacturers I can find from a google search or should I use a high dollar crank? Will an OEM crank break under higher horsepower is what I'm getting at. Thanks again.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

They are harder than hell to find. Thats the problem. Thats why the make those eagle and K1 cranks. OEM are proven just be sure to check the thrust surface when you get one.

 

[delta448]

^Agreed.

The 6 bolt 2.4s can be pretty tough to get. Finding an OEM 6 bolt 100mm crank in a junkyard is probably not going to happen, especially if you don't know what vehicles to look for.

Buying an aftermarket 6 bolt 100mm crank is probably the easiest, although not likely the cheapest route.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

^ Agreed.

HAHA. I got a steal on mine ;-)

I paid 350 for the whole motor with barely any miles on it. Sometimes you run into really really good deals. Which is why im building the 2.4 now.

 

[siemens03]

i have a 95 tsi and did a full rebuild on my 7 bolt motor didnt know much about crankwalk as this is my first dsm. i have about 2k miles on it and the clutch was starting to act up so i checked some things then measured crank endplay its .013 and average of a few measurements. the question i have is that i recently got a really good deal on a 2.3 kit for a 7 bolt but if crank walk is gonna be that big of a deal should i even mess with it? is there any different bearings or blocks or things that help this? i have heard revised block? or that the 97+ block dont do it near as bad? thanks for your help